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Let's discuss muslims, jews, buddhist, and christians



Polonius3
17 Apr 2017  #761

probability for the latter is certainly higher

Maybe yes, maybe no. In the beginning was the word. The big bang is an interesting theory, but what caused it to happen. There has to be cause and effect. Could one huge explosion of inorganic matter somehow miraculosuly become organic and evolve into the mega-complexity of living beings comprising zillions of atoms all knowing when to fly south for the winter, when to hibernate, how to change colour when threatened....let alone the super-complex human condition?
delphiandomine
17 Apr 2017  #762

The big bang is an interesting theory, but what caused it to happen.

From what I remember, the general Catholic idea these days is that God wasn't responsible for the Big Bang, but rather helped things along the way. It's fascinating stuff, and we shouldn't forget that it was a Catholic priest that actually came up with the Big Bang theory.
Lenka
17 Apr 2017  #763

Your question is completely ok, wouldn't think you have bad intentions.
Well...It was a lot of things. As a kid and young teenager I liked prying before bed and I found comfort in that. But to me it was always about being the best person you can be, turning the other cheek and so on. Then I saw the hypocrisy of ppl going to church. Especially the older ladies who loved to judge everyone without mercy and being generally nasty. Then it was the stance of the church on homosexuality, divorce, abortion...And then the education. When a new priest took over our class he started by saying to a group of 17 year olds that he's not there to discuss with us. At that point I was probably agnostic/atheist and I just came back home and said to my mum that she'll either sign me out or I will be 'nieklasyfikowana' (not passing due to not attending the classes) and I will resign anyway as soon as I turn 18.

After I resigned a priest came for a Christmas visit with his cheat sheet and started going on how I won't be buried in a blessed soil and so on. Confronted with my indifference he told me (half orphant of year and a half) that my father is turning in his grave. He stormed out when I told him he probably welcomed the change.

Now my only link with the church is my mom and it's because of her that I'm still included in the statistics for number of Catholics in Poland.
Lyzko
17 Apr 2017  #764

Many modern Northern Europeans rarely if ever even attend church, such as in England, France, Germany and a number of the Scandinavian countries. Here, primarily older people, seniors or perhaps the terminally ill, can be found in most churches.

Unlike the mega churches here in the States, church seems to have lost its broader appeal throughout the Western half of the continent.
delphiandomine
17 Apr 2017  #765

After I resigned a priest came for a Christmas visit with his cheat sheet and started going on

You're a better person than me, because if I had been you, he probably would have become familiar with the window within a matter of seconds.
Lenka
17 Apr 2017  #766

Oh that's nothing. A friend of mine had it worse. Her father was terminally ill and came back from hospital to die at home. He really wanted to take part in the last Christmas visit so they let the priest in. How do you think what did he do? Comfort him? Give support? Wrong! He started going on how the illness is punishment for sins etc. The mother quickly kick him out and after the vicar complained to his superior how awfully he was treated by that family (!) the main priest came to the family to apologise. Didn!t make the family 'unhear' all that crap though.
delphiandomine
17 Apr 2017  #767

Didn!t make the family 'unhear' all that crap though.

That's just horrible. It really shows how some of these "holy men" are deeply disturbed people with no connection to the real world.

A friend invites the priest in just to argue with them, which I find quite funny.
Lyzko
17 Apr 2017  #768

...hiding behind a cloak of respectability and collecting a handsome fee in the process.....
Polonius3
17 Apr 2017  #769

probability for the latter is certainly higher

Maybe yes, maybe no. In the beginning was the word. The big bang is an interesting theory, but what caused it to happen. There has to be cause and effect. Could one huge explosion of inorganic matter somehow miraculosuly become organic and evolve into the mega-complexity of living beings comprising zillions of atoms all knowing when to fly south for the winter, when to hibernate, how to change colour when threatened....let alone the super-complex human condition?

my only link with the church

Polonius3
17 Apr 2017  #770

my only link with the church

As long as you're alive there is always a chance you'll eventually be able to see past the hypocrites, posers and phonies and finally see the light. Yes, there are bad priests and nuns, but there are also bad lawyers, doctors and engineers, manufacturers of defective products and deceptive advertisers. Should we forego their services altogether because of some rotten apples?
Lenka
17 Apr 2017  #771

@ Delph
I enjoyed it too but then my main priest came and basically ruined it for me :) He said in front of my mom that it's good that if I have doubts I don't pretend to be a devout Catholic. He was reasonable and honest so there was no fun in mocking him. Quite a surprise since he was always made fun of for his died hair and kind of gay air about him.

@ Polonius
I assume you wanted to write something about my quote...
EDIT:

As long as you're alive there is always a chance you'll eventually be able to see past the hypocrites, posers and phonies and finally see the light.

True, I did that already but then you also have the dogma I don't agree with.
Polonius3
17 Apr 2017  #772

dogma I don't agree with

Maybe you just don't understand it. Perhaps so far no-one has crossed your path who could properly epxlain it to you. Keep and open mind and keep searching.
delphiandomine
17 Apr 2017  #773

Could one huge explosion of inorganic matter somehow miraculosuly become organic and evolve into the mega-complexity of living beings comprising zillions of atoms all knowing when to fly south for the winter, when to hibernate, how to change colour when threatened....let alone the super-complex human condition?

It's actually quite fascinating reading about the Church's position on these things, because it's actually quite enlightened and perfectly accepting of what science has to say on the matter. No-one has come up with a convincing theory as to how the Big Bang happened, and the Church simply seems to state that it's perfectly possible for God to have started it all while helping things along the way.

There's a nice article here about it - law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/vaticanview.html- Catholics certainly are far more enlightened than those lunatics in the US who take The Bible literally.
Lenka
17 Apr 2017  #774

Maybe you just don't understand it. Perhaps so far no-one has crossed your path who could properly epxlain it to you. Keep and open mind and keep searching.

Oh I do understand. I understand that a person married to a drinking psychopath can't divorce them and build a happy relationship with someone new, that a homosexual person has to either lie all their life or stay alone. I also understand that women for simple fact of having certain genitalia cannot have an equal say in the church.

I appreciate your sentiment Polonius but after my long journey from a Catholic to an atheist I started to find many things in the Catholic church that I find dumb, immoral or simply silly. Look simply at the reaction to books like Harry Potter or The Da Vinci Code. Especially the latter is just a silly conspiracy and yet Vatican refused to allow the crew to shoot the movie there. Boo hoo, one of the biggest religions on earth feels threatened by one book!
Lyzko
17 Apr 2017  #775

Ahemm, Lenka, it's not only the Church that refuses steadfastly to keep up with the times! The Orthodox Jews won't even permit rampant, if unreported, domestic violence even to be adjudicated by an American court, outside the sole, "objective" auspices of their own Bet Din:-)

Women STILL aren't permitted to pray side by side with men, let alone their husbands, and are continually forbidden from reading from the Torah!!

They cannot sit together in temple and remain hermetically sealed off from the outside world. In this way, they're rather like the Pennsylvania Amish, except in the Luddite view of technology or rather, "technophoby"!!
Lenka
17 Apr 2017  #776

Oh I do know Catolic church is not alone in that but I was raised as a Catolic and never considered joining any other religious group and went straight for atheist so I don't have that much knowledge and experience about other faiths
Lyzko
17 Apr 2017  #777

Fair enough, Lenka! Your commentary, compared with certain other nameless entities here on PF, is always well-thought out, inciteful, and worth reading:-)
Having said all that, I was raised in the Jewish faith and while not Orthodox myself, have experienced second-hand the seriously primitive belief system of certain of my coreligionists and it's not pretty!

Just yesterday, on the second to last day of Passover, I apparently angered our local rabbi when I remarked upon hearing of those swastika leaflets thrown onto the street in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, that we Jews need to do A LOT more serious outreach if we're going to succeed in sanitizing our image among the poor and socially disaffected in our society:-)

He called me a self-hating Jewish anti-Semite and, on the subject of name calling, I shot back "And you're a Republican in sheep's clothing, so there!!!"

Too much infighting among our people, Lenka!

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