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Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 5



Miloslaw
11 May 2023  #3,541

A friend that can get you killed is not a friend

Which sums up Russia's relationship with Ukraine perfectly!

Exactly why Ukraine wants to be free of russia! Yes! I knew you'd understand eventually

I think Rich may be getting there.... but he hasn't realised it yet.....

Bobko
11 May 2023  #3,542

Interesting. Do you have any links?

I do, but they are not the kind you will like.

Source: easternherald.com/2023/05/10/greek-air-force-general-christou-accused-kyiv-authorities-of-a-crime/?amp=1

Quote from retired Greek Air Force General Christou:

Of course, Ukraine and the Ukrainian leadership made a very big mistake by moving the war to the cities. Wars should only be fought between armies in open space," Christou said.

He noted that during World War II almost no battles took place in populated areas.

"Ukraine, with its military dogma, fought the war in the cities without removing the inhabitants, so there are heavy losses on both sides. The civilian population is dying. It is a war crime when you bomb and fight and keep the population in the middle of the fighting, when you set up military bases in the city, in hospitals," the general said.

Christou added that such decisions are prohibited by the international laws of war. According to him, the president and the Ukrainian leaders "commit a crime against their people", because it causes thousands of victims among civilians.


Before Paulina comes bounding out to attack the source, yes - he is a friend. Specifically, Pavlos Christou, along with being a general is:

General Secretary of the Greco-Russian Association and President of the Association of Friends of Crimea in Greece.

GefreiterKania
11 May 2023  #3,543

I do, but they are not the kind you will like.

Whether I like something or not is irrelevant - we are not here to caress each other's testicles. Thanks for the link.

Imagine if battles had been fought in Kharkiv or Kiev with millions of Russian artillery grenades, phosbor bombs et al.

It's logical that in large cities there would be many more casualties, but Russians do seem to have means of long range bombardment of large cities and they are not doing it on any really significant scale. You may argue that it's because they are "running out of everything' etc. but even at the beginning of the war they hadn't carried out any such mass attackes against large population centres.

Bobko
11 May 2023  #3,544

@GefreiterKania

I take some issue with this general's claim that during WW2 the fighting mostly avoided population centers. Citizens of Berlin, Warsaw, and Budapest may disagree. People that lived through Stalingrad may have something to say as well.

On the other hand, he's correct in the aggregate. Battles in urban centers constituted a small fraction of total fighting.

Also, the first three are important capital cities.

Tacitus
11 May 2023  #3,545

Wars should only be fought between armies in open space

I strongly doubt that this "interview" is genuine. It would reflect very poorly on the Greek military if a man capable of such nonsense were able to achieve such a high rank.

For one Ukraine has made an effort to evacuate its' citizen. It would only be a crime if it were to ban its' citizen from leaving for which there is no proof. There are in fact plenty of videos out there from volunteers trying to unsuccesfully convince the last civilians in Bakhmut to leave.

It also historically incorrect that there were few battles over cities and sieges in WWII. On the Eastern Front there was Leningrad. Kharkiv (more than once), Kiev, Sevastopol, a less-well known one called Stalingrad. Later Warsaw, Kƶnigsberg, Breslau, Berlin and ao on.

Paulina
11 May 2023  #3,546

Can you imagine how much more pitiful our civilian killing numbers would have been if the Ukrainians had actually met us in the field?

Bobko, Bobko, Bobko, you're such a funny demagogue :D Is RuSSian army trying to take over fields or cities? And why a defending, less numerous army would be meeting an invading army "in the field" where it could get wiped out by your missiles and artillery? :D

And are RuSSian troops meeting Ukrainian army "in the field" or are they defending the cities, towns and villages they managed to take over earlier? Isn't it this is why Bakhmut looks like this now?:

image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/107200805-1677587400133-gettyimages-1247552432-AFP_33A89K9.jpeg?v=1678266957

3

storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/26c22733bc414d80b2513054391e8589/2000.webp

He noted that during World War II almost no battles took place in populated areas.

What? What kind of bullsh1t is that?? :D

"Ukraine, with its military dogma, fought the war in the cities without removing the inhabitants

What a f*cking lie! Especially in the light of how RuSSian army wouldn't let people evacuate from Mariupol and civillians were being shot at when they were trying to leave the city! I spit on this Greek idiot! TFU! šŸ¤®

Tacitus
11 May 2023  #3,547

but even at the beginning of the war they hadn't carried out

Because the Ukrainians kept them away from their population centers. Most of Russia's artillery has an effective range of 25-40 km and thankfully the Russians never got close enough to bombard Kiev (they did fire at the outskirts a bit which had been evacuated).

The Russians continue to strike civilian targets with their long range weapons (drones and rockets) but Ukrainian anti air defence is strong enough to intercept most of them and keep the death toll low.

Bobko
11 May 2023  #3,548

@Tacitus

I must admit, your ability to interpret everything in the most positive light is quite inspiring!

GefreiterKania
11 May 2023  #3,549

Warsaw

150,000 civilian deaths in 2 months of the Warsaw Uprising (50,000 of which in only a few days of mass genocide in Wola). I know that WW2 makes most other wars pale in terms of genocide/civilian casualties but still the war in Ukraine doesn't seem very "bad" in this regard (if one can even say such thing).

Because the Ukrainians kept them away from their population centers

Hmm... but the fighting for Kharkiv lasted for about two-and-a-half months and the city was well within the range of Russian artillery for even longer. Civilian losses? 606 killed - in over two months, so even fewer than the overall average number...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kharkiv_(2022)

... and Kharkiv is a 1.4 million city (Warsaw in 1944 had a population of 900 thousand)! Something doesn't add up in your theory, Taci.

GefreiterKania
11 May 2023  #3,550

More from the Kharkiv Battle link...

"On 13 June, Amnesty International published a report saying that Russian forces had carried out a "relentless campaign of indiscriminate bombardments" in the battle, including the use of banned cluster munitions, scatterable land mines, and Grad rockets. Amnesty stated that these attacks constituted war crimes and potentially represented deliberate targeting of civilians."

OK, so 600,000 people were evacuated from the city, but still over 800,000 stayed. And there was a two-and-a-half months long battle for the city, and it was in the range of Russian artillery all the time, and Russians used "relentless and indiscriminate bombardments", cluster munitions, scatterable land mines and Grad rockets to "potentially deliberately target civilians" and the number of civilian casualties: about 600. In any thinking person's mind this must give birth to a rather serious, if somewhat unsophisticated question: WTF?

A theory begins to germinate in my sharp-as-a-razor mind, but I must sleep on it. Good night.

Miloslaw
11 May 2023  #3,551

n any thinking person's mind this must give birth to a rather serious, if somewhat unsophisticated question: WTF?

Yes, and the answer is obvious.
The Russians ARE trying to kill as many people as possible.
But are failing.

A theory begins to germinate in my sharp-as-a-razor mind

That mind is not required.
The answer is obvious.
The Russian military are worse than useless!
And in the end, the will lose this war.

Bobko
11 May 2023  #3,552

Russians ARE trying to kill as many people as possible.
But are failing.

Now it's my turn to tell you that sometimes I'm bewildered by how thick you can be.

Here, I'll do your job for you:

1) Russians are evil, and specifically target civilians. However, in the 8 decades that passed since WW2, weapons have become more precise - even in Mordor. Therefore, Kania, you will never see civilian casualties on the scale of WW2 because less munitions are used, and of a smaller caliber.

2) Alternatively... though they possess the means, the Russians are simply too primitive in their Asiatische Ubermenschen brain to properly organize and structure an effective killing process.

If someone argues against, and says, "But Milo! They killed 27,000 Poles quietly in the night" - you tell them:

A) This is during times of Soviet Union when they had Jews and Georgians helping them run things. In modern day Orc land such efficiency would be impossible.

B) They are still using maps of Kharkov published in 1969. Hahahaha stupid Orcs. If only they had access to modern maps they could have killed as many people as they planned, but too bad - stupid orcs.

This is the way brother. This is full send. Full autism.

You're welcome.

PolAmKrakow
12 May 2023  #3,553

And the counter offensive technically has begun with softening up of key targets. So much for the delays eh boys? Anyone want to make bets on how long the bridge between Russia and Crimea lasts now with Ukraine having some new missiles from the UK? As for all those accurate weapons Russia has developed since WWII, where are they now? Why would Russia be repurposing all kinds of missiles in order to use them in Ukraine? When exactly will Russia take Kiev? Or how about taking Bakhmut? We have been waiting months for that and still nothing. Oh wait, there was something, Ukraine took back several km of Bakhmut when the Russians started running away the other day.

@Novichok
The US is always better at killing like Russians are better at dying. Each has a skill that cant be denied. What happened to your saying kill them all and let god sort them out? Who cares about the camel jockies anyway? Maybe an attack on Chicago will remind you of what comes from the middle east to the US.

In Muskovy people are now watching reruns of old victory parades and counting tanks to compare with the parade of the other day. Some are beginning to question Russian media reports that all is going well in Ukraine. Happy gulag biatches!

Tacitus
12 May 2023  #3,554

but the fighting for Kharkiv lasted for about two-and-a-half months

If you read up on the battle at Kharkiv you would see that the fighting did not take place in Kharkiv but its' hinterland and some of its' outskirts which had been cleared of inhabitants. More than half of its' usual population fled, with the remaining one gathered in parts well away from the Russian artillery.

mafketis
12 May 2023  #3,555

And the counter offensive technically has begun

russian telegram is apparently crappin its pants...

As I keep saying it's not an event, it's a process and part of that has begun with attacks on key supply points in Crimea and russia itself.

Don't expect the Ukrainian government to be transparent in announcements regarding the timing and/or short term direction or goals of the counter offensive.

Should go without saying but....

mafketis
12 May 2023  #3,556

Oh no's!!!!!! A factory making engines for russian fighter planes is on fire...... oh nooooooooo (ha ha ha ha ha ha)

twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1656922279144456192

Bratwurst Boy
12 May 2023  #3,557

....curious, isn't it. Some fires in the last weeks....

PolAmKrakow
12 May 2023  #3,558

@Bratwurst Boy
Imagine the fires that will be starting in Crimea and Donetsk with all those new Storm Shadow missiles that are already in Ukraine. 150 miles range is a real game changer for Ukraine. All those hiding places the Russians had are now within range. I wonder how easily the soldiers will sleep now, knowing that almost no place will be safe for them. My bet is tanks start rolling in less than two weeks.

NoviChunt
12 May 2023  #3,559

with all those new Storm Shadow missiles that are already in Ukraine

indeed. who would have thought i'd be the poms that supply the first +120km range weapons, and a 500kg payload. sweet!

johnny reb
12 May 2023  #3,560

@The Troll
All Fake News

the first +120km range weapons

The Storm Shadow have a range of "in excess of 250km to 400 km range, depending on the weight of the payload", not 120 km.

and a 500kg payload.

Nope, only a 400kg maximum payload.
No doubt will be used to take out Putin's trophy bridge soon.

Alien
12 May 2023  #3,561

the first +120km

I think here is the (+) decisive. These are medium-range missiles over 120 km.

cms neuf
12 May 2023  #3,562

There is a reason Putin kept all his heavy armour and goose stepping rapists away from Moscow - the last thing he wants is them getting stuck into the cheap spriritus and questioning why the hell they are expected to fight a modern motivated opponents with 1950s weapons and no medicine

jon357
12 May 2023  #3,563

the fires that will be starting in Crimea and Donetsk with all those new Storm Shadow missiles

Some pretty good news today.

One of the Ukrainian commanders was writing about the new push to get the orcs out of the Bakhmut region. He was saying that contrary to the crap that Pighozin says about his own troops compared to the regular r·SSian army, when the offensive came, the Wagner Group ones just turned and fled while the r·SSist army units stayed and fought to the last, all of them now dead.

Atch
12 May 2023  #3,564

the Wagner Group ones just turned and fled while the rĀ·SSist army units stayed

And Pighozin says the opposite :))

"The units of the defence ministry simply went fleeing from the flanks" of Bakhmut, Mr Prigozhin said, adding that "the flanks are failing, the front is collapsing" in that area.

He adds "we must stop lying immediately".

First sensible thing he's said.

mafketis
12 May 2023  #3,565

Novi will no longer have any excuse for staying in the democracy (brrrrr boo boo hiss hiss) of the US. russia is building a place for him and people like him....

themoscowtimes.com/2023/05/11/russia-to-build-migrant-village-for-conservative-american-expats-a81101

How much longer before he's writing about the wonders of russia?

Bobko
12 May 2023  #3,566

Good time of day!

Stopping by to say that a Russian victory is as inevitable today as it was on the first day of combat.

This victory will be even more sweet than WW2, because this time we can prove to the parasites that tried to claim the glory - who does the real heavy lifting.




mafketis
12 May 2023  #3,567

ussian victory is as inevitable today as it was on the first day of combat

Actually agree..... a bunch of serfs fighting for the glory of the Tsar who doesn't care if they live or die vs free people fighting for their dignity and freedom.... I realize that you don't understand concepts like 'human dignity' and 'freedom' because if you did you wouldn't be on russia's side and you wouldn't live in the US as a russian...

Say hi to Luhansk... apparently a machine building plant was hit....

twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1657051184144711680

jon357
12 May 2023  #3,568

who does the real heavy lifting.

The Royal Navy Murmansk convoys and the American Lend-Lease programme?

Without which what would have been left of r*SSia would have been a tiny rump beyond the Urals and the smouldering remains of Moscow being German-speaking...

Miloslaw
12 May 2023  #3,569

The reality in Bakhmut.
Russians are running away.....they have had enough.

youtube.com/watch?v=x1ROFUdPnF0&pp=ygVdUnVzc2lhbiB0cm9vcHMgcnVubmluZyBhd2F5IGZyb20gdWtyYWluaWFucyBhbmQgYmVpbmcga2lsbGVkIGJ5IHRoZSBtaXNzaWxlcyB0aGV5IGxlZnQgYmVoaW5k

johnny reb
12 May 2023  #3,570

Russians are running away.....they have had enough.

The skinny is that Russia can't find mico chips for their weapons.
The news here in the U.S. is that Ukraine forces have broken through Russia's front lines.
Putin can't be too happy right now.


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