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Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 10



Alien
13 May 2024  #3,361

drop something somewhere and then to speak

Do you mean any feces?

Crow
13 May 2024  #3,362

Why not?

Korvinus
13 May 2024  #3,363

Neighbour lease territory in a nearest vicinity to our border and in easy reach to objects of strategic importange for military base of hostile alliance

Until the annexation of Crimea Russia recognized the borders of Ukraine - first in the Budapest Memorandum in 1994, than in the legally binding Border Treaty of 2003. Russia, like a typical thug sh*its on its own declarations and promises and then is surprised it is treated as one.

to advance "freedom and democracy"

When USSR collapsed, people rushed to get independence and westernize, not to remake another USSR. Only the KGB elite in Moscow wanted it. The average worker in Poland + Baltic + Ukraine loathes USSR. On amount of your "what about USA" would`t change the relaity that the average worker in Estonia lives much better now than in the soviet union.

Crow
13 May 2024  #3,364

We learning quickly...

True. Don't overdo it. Ways of malevolent corrupt beings are mostly incomprehensible and devoid of sanity.

Novichok
13 May 2024  #3,365

When the USSR collapsed, people rushed to get independence and westernize,

No, they didn't rush to Westernize. They rushed to get better-paying jobs.

If my paycheck in Warsaw in 1969 was the same as a year later in Chicago, I would stay. No, I didn't come to the US to get a gun or to vote for the less corrupt party of my choice. In fact, I don't vote and for info the last place I would go to are American presstitutes.

How is life in Appalachia on minimum wage different from one in a small village in Siberia? Start with crime...

Crow
13 May 2024  #3,366

No, they didn't rush to Westernize. They rushed to get better-paying jobs.

I wouldn`t tell it better.

Many of us wanted that. So now we have fagots man walk like a woman and gender degenerics pretend to be dogs. So that we have less of a healthy male-female interaction and therefore less Slavic children so that we can import more non Slavs in our realm so, finally, our resources aren`t ours but of some other people.

amiga500
13 May 2024  #3,367

fagots man walk like a woman and gender degenerics pretend to be dogs.

If it means Novi never comes back it was worth it.

Velund
13 May 2024  #3,368

One moving is equal to 2 fires. Moving to another countries - add one earthquake to fires.

Crow
13 May 2024  #3,369

Let us have healthy life despite all odds

Aerodrome Chicago, aerodrome Chicago, aerodrome Chicago.



Bobko
13 May 2024  #3,370

You will come back to your old demands of NATO withdrawing behind the Oder river and will want to run things (or at least influence them heavily) in Poland again

I don't think we can demand NATO to be moved behind the Oder.

However, the RAND Corporation, the leading security policy think tank in America - does seem to at least consider a new CFE agreement to be something that can be discussed. This would place limitations on what type of military forces Russia and NATO can keep within Europe.

I'm an amateur strategist

You should read the RAND report I'm referring to. You will enjoy it, and become one step closer to a professional strategist :)

Here it is: rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RRA2500/RRA2510-2/RAND_RRA2510-2.pdf

The CFE stuff I mentioned above, was discussed in one of the 4 scenarios they presented. That scenario is called "Cold Peace".

The other three options are "Pervasive Instability", "Localized Instability", and "Cold War 2.0".

Obviously, I favor "Cold Peace", so that's why I cited from that case. Attaching screenshot below of the bullet points for this scenario.

Everything here is interesting, but for me the main things are sanctions relief, and shutting the door to NATO for Ukraine and Georgia.

Nuclear arms treaties, CFE-type treaties, limitations on American ballistic missile defense, etc... are all nice things - but those other are key.




Miloslaw
13 May 2024  #3,371

I don't think we can demand NATO to be moved behind the Oder.

Russia, as an invader of an innocent country is in no position to demand anything!

NATO needs to put nuclear missiles on Poland's border with Belarus and Russia, as has been recently suggested.

Russia is a rogue state, cannot be trusted and we need to defend ourselves.

The time for discussion , dialogue or treaties with Russia have been destroyed by Russia's actions.

Novichok
13 May 2024  #3,372

Many of us wanted that. So now we have fagots man walk like a woman and gender degenerics pretend to be dogs.

Standard of living aside, to my horror, in the last 25 years, the US has changed to the point where it is not recognizable. The woke mob made the First Amendment into a cruel joke. A financial catastrophe is right around the corner. Yes, life here is still better than in Russia. It's the trend that keeps many here awake at night.

Russia, for all its faults, is on the way up. Strangely, the sanctions are a gift from God Himself. I only wish somebody would impose sanctions on the US and force us to bring all the manufacturing jobs back home.

Any ideas about what evil things we could do to get those sanctions? Nothing else will stop the deindustrialization of this county into a rusty has-been with abandoned factories and downtowns.

The ruling mob is making sure this cancer will continue...I just don't know why...

The time for discussion, dialogue, or treaties with Russia has been destroyed by Russia's actions.

The 600,000 dead Ukrainians disagree. What do you want me to tell them?

Bobko
13 May 2024  #3,373

NATO needs to put nuclear missiles on Poland's border with Belarus and Russia, as has been recently suggested.

So, then you support the scenario of "Pervasive Instability", as defined by RAND.

For once, you may be right! This is indeed the scenario which seems most likely at the moment. Unfortunately, it leads to a much more sh*tty world. Do you care about this?

Also, I want to make sure everyone understands that I don't subscribe to the idea of "Ukraine making modest territorial gains" in my favored scenario from RAND. All the other points I like though... The scenario which you favor, RAND thinks will play out if Russia keeps advancing.

Here's that scenario:




Novichok
13 May 2024  #3,374

Unfortunately, it leads to a much more sh*tty world

...and school drills of hiding under the desks...as if kids' mental health wasn't sufficiently destroyed by 72 genders already...

Miloslaw
13 May 2024  #3,375

So, then you support the scenario of "Pervasive Instability"

I prefer to call it M.A.D........ it worked during the "Cold War", if that's what Russians really want, let's go back to that.

But I think it is a backwards step.Russia pulling out of Ukraine would be a positive step.

Novichok
13 May 2024  #3,376

Russia pulling out of Ukraine would be a positive step.

Russia wouldn't be in Ukraine if the US didn't help with the "revolution" and kept NATO borders where they were in 1990.
It's NATO that came to Russia. Russia didn't come to NATO. If you have problems with this, Google US, USSR, Cuba, 1962.

Bobko
13 May 2024  #3,377

...and school drills of hiding under the desks..

Pretty much :(

Returning to Kania's argument that Poland should preemptively send troops to Ukraine to avert a Ukrainian collapse - the RAND Corporation doesn't even include a scenario where Russia occupies all of Ukraine.

Even though I would of course love it if we conquered all of Ukraine, I don't think that's really in the cards. That is, I'm on the same page as RAND.

Getting to the Dniepr would be amazing. Taking Kiev - even more spectacular. Going all the way to Lvov though... seems a little fantastic.

I think an actually realistic scenario, and probably what RAND means by modest territorial losses by Ukraine, is taking Kharkov and the South (Odessa, Kherson, and Nikolayev).

Miloslaw
13 May 2024  #3,378

Russia wouldn't be in Ukraine if the US didn't help with the "revolution" and kept NATO borders where they were in 1990.

Utter bollox, that is not a reason for Russia to invade Ukraine in such a horrific manner.....

Returning to Kania's argument that Poland should preemptively send troops to Ukraine to avert a Ukrainian collapse.

Russia will never occupy all of Ukraine but if it wants to avoid a WW3, which they will lose, they need to get out of Ukraine NOW!


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