POLANDA : - powered by PolishForums Classifieds [57] Off-Topic [110]
Results: 60    

Blue eyes of Gavrilo Princip for the independance of Poland. Was it worth?



Crow
2 Oct 2016  #41

Blaming Serbs for WWI is fabrication of history. i would only quote comment of the Serbian president here, from the above article:

As far as Germany and Austria-Hungary were concerned, World War I was imminent even without the assassination, he said, and added that "then, as well as now, as always, Serbia opposed the war. We deserved and received the halo of the righteous victors during and immediately after both world wars."

Also, this quote of Serbian president:

"Gavrilo Princip was a hero, a symbol of the idea of freedom, the assassin of tyrants and the carrier of the European idea of liberation from slavery," Nikolic said at the ceremony.

Source: b92.net/eng/news/society.php?yyyy=2015&mm=06&dd=29&nav_id=94588

When we are at reasons for WWI and WWII, it would be worth to mention how Anglo bankers profited from the conflicts, while biggest biological and material losses suffered Slavs. Seams that even Germanics were manipulated in great Anglo schemes and their hate on Slavs used for the profits of Anglos who are higher then Germanics in the ``food`` chain.
Crow
15 May 2017  #42

What I want to ask here is- did Poland ever erected monument to Gavrilo? Remember, no real independence of Poland without monument to this Serbian student, this young man, revolutionary that announced freedom of Slavs and triggered events that led to independence of Poland. We can say that monument to Gavrilo in Poland represent measure of Poland`s real independence and balanced Poland`s stance on processes within Poland, as well as balanced Poland`s position within Slavic world, in Europe and in world.

gp

Gavrilo Princip, photo just after assassination and his arrest
Bristols
15 May 2017  #43

Does Gawrilo Princip sniff petrol ?
Harry
15 May 2017  #44

did Poland ever erected monument to Gavrilo?

Poles tend not to like men who murder women. As I've said before, a statue of Gavrilo Princip would be as welcome in Poland as a statue of the Serbian paedophiles from Foca who raped children as young as 12.
Crow
15 May 2017  #45

Its just so ugly when Anglos patronize Poles and telling them what is good for Poland, plus, spread confusion and fabricated propaganda in the process.
Bristols
15 May 2017  #46

My heart is pumping ****
Atch
15 May 2017  #47

Crow, you can't be serious. Princip's actions precipitated the First World War and quite apart from the loss of life sustained by those countries whom you despise, your own country, Serbia suffered terribly as you well know. In fact the highest rate of civilian casualties of the war was sustained by Serbia. By the way are you aware of the Scottish hospitals established in Serbia during the war?

bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-35039265

I suppose the fact the Serbia has honoured those Scottish women who founded the hospitals by issuing stamps with their images, whilst at the same time errecting a statue of Princip is something to scratch the head about.
Crow
15 May 2017  #48

Please, refrain yourself from western European and then generally Anglo propaganda in interpretation of history. Neither Gavrilo, neither Serbia caused WWI. Telling that Serbs started war isn`t just distortion but even vulgarization of truth. Serbians were one among many ethoses in A-H that rebelled and resisted to Hapsburg rule (prior to Gavrilo`s assassination of Ferdinand, happened attempt of assassination on one Hapsburg in Italy). We can only conclude that from all opposition to Hapsburg`s Serbian opposition was most serious and that with the reasons- considering that humiliation of Serbs was Hapsburg imperative. So, Hapsburg`s got it back in their face. But, it has nothing with reasons for global world conflict. World war was imminent due to antagonisms between world powers.
Atch
15 May 2017  #49

Neither Gavrilo, neither Serbia caused WWI.

I didn't maintain that he did. Even back in the dark ages when I was at school we knew that. In my secondary school we learned about the many things which led up to WWI and how the actions of Gavrilo Princip merely served as a catalyst to precipitate the conflict which would have come about in any case. But the fact is that his actions were used as an excuse to justify the subsequent conflict which cost around 15 million lives. If you want to errect a statue of him in your own country representing him as a freedom fighter then fair enough, it's your country and you can do what you like, according to what he means to Serbia. But outside of Serbia it would be seen as highly insensitive.

Here's a nice piece about Princip from the English press and as you can see, he's not depicted as a monster. In fact the author seems to have much sympathy for him so stop all that nonsense about Anglo propaganda:

telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-one/10930829/The-lie-that-started-the-First-World-War.html
Ziemowit
15 May 2017  #50

World war was imminent due to antagonisms between world powers.

This is the key point. But many in Western Europe may be convinced nevertheless that Princip was the principal cause of the WWI. Anyway, Harry of the PF seems to be representative for those and I remember I once quoted for him an excerpt from an article of a British historian saying exactly the same what Crow said and Harry almost ridiculed that as nonsense.

But this means that some people still like to believe it if renowned historians even bother to say they are wrong. (This could be what Crow calls "Anglo propaganda" then and can be attributed to the wish for placing someone's fault for the many victims of that conflict in Serbia rather than in "more civilised" countries.)

the actions of Gavrilo Princip merely served as a catalyst to precipitate the conflict which would have come about in any case.

This is my view as well. The Austria-Hungary was the thing of the past in 1914 already and many would consider the existence of such a country a miracle even before that year. In Poland the deed of Gavrilo Princip is well known, though no one tends to blame him for the outbraek of the war. His name would not be even known to many here and the whole event would be better known as "zabójstwo arcyksięcia Ferdynanda w Sarajewie". On the other hand, hardly anyone would attribute the gift of an independent Poland to his deed. It is argued that the emergence of Poland in the result of the WWI was achieved thanks to the proper assumptions of Marshal Piłsudski that first Russia would be defeated by the central states (Germany and A-H), those to be defeated in the next phase by the Western powers (England and France). He acted accordingly to these assumptions of his and "suddenly" an independent Poland emerged from the chaos of the First World War or as the popular saying of the time went on: ni z tego, ni z owego, a tu Polska na pierwszego!. Rather amazing, wasn't it?
jon357
15 May 2017  #51

Princip was a footnote in history and the murder of Ferdinand and his wife a pretext.

Nevertheless, Princip was a terrorist. Nothing more, nothing less.
mafketis
15 May 2017  #52

For once.... we agree! Let's cherish this moment, shall we?
TheOther
15 May 2017  #53

those to be defeated in the next phase by the Western powers (England and France)

Marshal Piłsudski would've miscalculated the outcome big time if the Americans hadn't joined the war in 1917.
Crow
15 May 2017  #54

How delusional thinking. Truly a shame to say that USA defeated Central Powers. Its even insulting. USA entered WWI at the last quarter of conflict. Slavs won that war, at a terrible price.
TheOther
15 May 2017  #55

Truly a shame to say that USA defeated Central Powers

Britain, France and Germany were pretty much at a stalemate in 1917 and were simply killing each other off in the trenches. The USA entered the war very late, true, but they certainly tipped it in favor of the Entente.

Slavs won that war

Especially the Russians, right? LOL!
Crow
15 May 2017  #56

Serbians. Then, Russians.

Even officially, first Entente victory over Central powers in WWI was Cer battle in 1914 (Serbia vs A-H). Later, in 1918, at Thessaloniki front, Serbians played major role and pursued Austrians all the way to Vienna, what effectively ended A-H and prepared ground for Entente victory.
TheOther
15 May 2017  #57

Serbians. Then, Russians.

I know that Serbia played a minor (but still important) role, but the country certainly didn't win the war. Russia? Not so much either. Does the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk ring a bell?
Crnogorac3
15 May 2017  #58

youtube.com/watch?v=fDhN3m3omvg

Major Dragutin Gavrilovic speech during the defence of Belgrade:

''Soldiers, exactly at three o'clock, the enemy is to be crushed by your fierce charge, destroyed by your grenades and bayonets. The honor of Belgrade, our capital, must not be stained. Soldiers! Heroes! The supreme command has erased our regiment from its records. Our regiment has been sacrificed for the honor of Belgrade and the Fatherland. Therefore, you no longer need to worry about your lives: they no longer exist. So, forward to glory! For the King and the Fatherland! Long live the King, Long live Belgrade!''

youtube.com/watch?v=mbmxn11u19Y

During WWI the whole world was amazed by the bravery of Serbian soldiers who were dying for freedom.
Crow
16 May 2017  #59

This quote of major Gavrilovic entered Japanese military encyclopedia as example that Japanese kind fanaticism exist in Europe, too.

I know that Serbia played a minor (but still important) role, but the country certainly didn't win the war.

What is victory for you? What motivates victory? Freedom or business? If business, then USA won. If freedom, then Serbia won and, that Serbian victory announced freedom for all Slavs.

Russia? Not so much either. Does the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk ring a bell?

Russia? Russia made possible Serbian victory. Then, Russia crumbled, weakened, due to intrigues and schemes that installed communism there.

I know that Serbia played a minor (but still important) role

Serbia lost 1/3 of its population. If we lost that war, we would be slaughtered in massive genocide, unseen since times of Roman Empire. So, only option was to win.

Britain, France and Germany were pretty much at a stalemate in 1917

Yes. And USA entered war to save western Europe from mutual onslaught that was consequence of struggles between magnates, which actually, side by side with US magnates, even started WWI, then later WWII.
Crow
16 May 2017  #60

Is it true that the Serbian flag is the only flag besides American to be flown over the White House; something apparently done on July 28th, 1918 on President Wilson's order to commemorate Serbia's role in WWI?

reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2c130o/is_it_true_that_the_serbian_flag_is_the_only_flag/

When Serbian flag flew above the White House

dijaspora.gov.rs/en/serbian-flag-flew-white-house/

On July 28th 1918, the 4th anniversary of the beginning of World War I, Serbian flag flew above the White House and all public buildings in American capital by the order of President Woodrow Wilson.

Also, in a same 1918 year, Serbia and Poland shared the day at the Altar of Liberty in Madison Square. The flag of Serbia was raised on the altar at noon and the celebration for Poland took place in the afternoon.

PreviousNext
if someone saw you cry... [26]Locked in a hotel room with Cynthia & Brittany Daniel from Sweet Valley High [5]


Home / Off-Topic / Blue eyes of Gavrilo Princip for the independance of Poland. Was it worth?Top