European obsession with firearm ownership.

Re. gun collectors and sportsmen, people do collect very old guns and display them on their wall - I think something has to be done to them so they can't be fired. Sportsmen join gun clubs which are very strictly regulated, and farmers are allowed shotguns, provided they pass a psychological test, are approved by the police and store their weapon and ammunition in the correct way. And of course do not discharge their weapon anywhere near a public road.

So yes, we do have guns and no obsession with them at all.

The numbers are not lower. There is no country in Europe with a similar death rate to any American state.

What's your connection to Poland, by the way?

bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34062118

God bless America's guns, for they allow Americans to shoot TV reporters dead live on air!

Poor, poor people. Needless victims of the American obsession with gun ownership. Virginia allows people to openly carry guns too, so clearly the argument that "guns protect you" is false.

To bad none of the people in the crowd had a gun on them to stop the shooter after his first shot.
But when you have the liberals claiming it was the guns fault what can we expect.
I think my spoon should be outlawed as it is making me fat.

Spot on. Some of the sillier advocates of gun proliferation say that the whole point of them are to protect. Yet that never seems to happen, does it?

One reason we aren't interested in changing the law in Europe.

You are missing the point, JR. Only because the US society wasn't willing to control guns in the past, weapons started to end up in the hands of criminals and regular people felt the urge to arm themselves just in case. Now it's too late, of course. In Europe, no one in his or her right mind would consider a gun to be an option for personal protection. Most thugs over there don't have guns anyway, and guns are not readily available like in the US. It's the mindset I was talking about.


Guess that's why the NRA is so influential... :)

But they don't Delph, you only see that in the south west States these days.


No because there are to many gun restrictions in the U.SA.
For some reason you knuckle heads seem to think everyone in America is allowed to carry a gun with them.
Not true.
You portray people just walking down the street brandishing guns in America.
That's the furthest thing from reality jon.
Paint your Liberal picture as you may.
My guess would be that less then 5% of the people in this country carry and if they do you would never know it.
There are many places you are not allowed to carry at all such as on school grounds, sporting events, pubs, hospitals, etc.
So it's not like the wild west as you portray it.

You noticed he hasn't addressed the train shooter, Charlie Hebdo attack, or the border incursions currently into Poland by the right sector battalions from Ukraine?

Depends in which state you live. In South Dakota a whopping 12.03% of the population has a concealed carry permit, in Hawaii it's only 0.02%.

crimepreventionresearchcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Concealed-Carry-Permit-Holders-Across-the-United-States.pdf
(page 12 ff.)

He hasn't addressed ANY of the questions presented to him by me in this thread.
He ignores those and just comes off the wall prattling his Liberal non sense.


Just because you have a license to carry concealed doesn't mean you are going to.
It just gives you the right to.
I have had my license to carry before you were born yet the only time I carry it is when I go
into the big city or travel.
Otherwise there is no need to carry where I live because there is no crime to speak of.
Those statistics are meaningless on how many people actually carry.
As I stated:

You are a centenarian? :)


Okay, let's say your 5% are correct. That would mean that about 16 million Americans carry a concealed weapon legally, plus a couple of millions that carry illegally of course. Good chance to find some nutters amongst them who are more than happy to massacre a bunch of people.

I hear the nutters use bombs to do it in Europe and the Middle East.

Why do you bother?


ht tp://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms.shtm


I'd very much imagine that nobody has addressed those 'incursions' due to the simple fact that that they exist only in the imaginations of the Kremlin propagandists who provide vast amounts of amusement to people here.

I like to stymie their rational on "gun control" with.............
Chicago and Washington D.C. have outlawed guns to eliminate gun homicides.
However Chicago and Washington D.C. have the highest rate of gun homicides in the United States proving
that outlawing guns does not work.
(Are we back to demographics again that is the real problem and not guns)
Their Liberal philosophy is that they don't want to own a gun so you shouldn't be allowed to own one either.

All these people do is to whine about gun ownership (which nobody really wants in Europe) and yet the thread title suggests the obsession is on the side of Europeans. Who never even think about guns.

Actually it is the Progressive Liberals that are whining about taking them away from law abiding citizens to protect their family and property with.


You seem to be singularly speaking for all of Europe jon.
I know better, however, because ALL my e-mail friends in Europe have told me that they would own a gun if they could.
That includes my friends in Poland.
They have a ton of questions about them which shows great interest.

In Europe??


So you "know better" because weirdy internet people you've never met discuss weapons with you.

Almost as comical as the guy who said:


We must have somehow missed those. The entire country's news services too, and the Premier to boot.

Well you are one of those very weirdy people on the internet that I have never met.
So back to my question to you jon, "How do you explain the highest gun homicide rates are in two area's
in the United States where guns are outlawed ?"
I have repeatedly said that it has everything to do with demographics and not the gun.
What would be your explanation of this jon ?

Not very eloquent of you.
So back to the question - why do you think Europeans are obsessed with gun ownership when it simply isn't an issue here?

Oklahoma City? Boston?

How many gun related fatalities in the US each year, how many deaths in Europe caused by terrorism? In 2013 for example, we had 33,636 gun related deaths. Multiply that by 10 and you'll have 336,000 Americans losing their life in a decade because of the availibility of weapons on every street corner. Wonder how those numbers look for the Middle East.

So you choose to answer my question with a question to avoid my question.
I guess that answers my question........you can't answer mine.


The guy did the shooting was a Black HOMOSEXUAL !
Now if the table was turned and a white heterosexual shot a black homosexual it would be all over the news.
I am so sick and tired of this POLITICAL CORRECTNESS bullock.
I wonder how much longer Poland puts up with it before they say, ENUFF !

What obsession? I like the fact Americans have firearms. Maybe just maybe they'll shoot themselves dead all together and stop invading other countries and shoot at their citizens FORCING "freedom" on them. :D

Ah, now we know your real agenda. The "Right Sector" has no interest in Poland and their power base is far, far away from the Polish border. In fact, the only people making such claims about the Right Sector and Poland is...the Russians.


Hahhahahaa :D

Maybe, just maybe.

But maybe Johnny can answer a question that's puzzling me.

Why do many states allow "open carry" and not "concealed carry" or vice versa? What's the difference between having a gun at your side and having a gun hidden in your waistband?

Something called Americans 2cd Amendment Rights to the Constitution of the United States of America Delph.


That ungrateful stupid statement shows just how young you are to not have been born yet when the United States of America's Military
(the most powerful military on the face of this earth paid for with the son's and daughter's blood) liberated countries like they did yours in WW1 and WW2.

Your ungratefulness to the sacrifice the United States of America made to liberate your Limey loudmouth is disgusting to say the least.
If it hadn't been for the United States you would be speaking German right now.

Some Brits tend to forget that the USA (and others) bailed them out in both world wars. :)


NocyMrok claims to be a native Polish speaker, so he might be a Pole who moved to the UK.

Actually a very two way thing - they needed UK possessions (and men) in their disagreement with our Japanese friends as well as a Europe that was not totally overrun by the hun. Though the 'bailing out' (paid back in full, by the way) is no reason whatsoever that Europe should adopt any of their laws, including those relating to firearms.


And if it hadn't been for Britain, so would you, lack of gun control or not...

Well, doesn't change the fact though that the outcome of WW1 and WW2 would've been different without the involvement of the Americans in both wars (and the Soviets in the second). I agree with you that the US had their very own agenda when they entered the wars. Abolition of colonialism and imperialist ambitions - just to name a few.


True that.

I think you may be right on that. A youngster loudmouth for sure.
Obviously just read what some of the Brit Bullies previously posted and want to be one of the big boys so ran his pie hole

like a duck runs it's &%@.
The United States is the police officer of the world.
The American citizens are the ones that have pay taken out of their paycheck every week to finance the greatest military on earth.
It ain't cheap at over 750 BILLION$ a year to run it.
Compare that to ALL of Europe (EU) who doesn't even spend a 100 billion combined.
Oh and the United States GIVES another 70 million dollars A DAY year round for foreign aid.
So if it wasn't for the American people footing the bill with not only the money but also their blood Russia would be expanding west.

After all that America has sacrificed to protect Europe in two world wars so they could keep their freedoms, I do wonder how much Europe would sacrifice for America in return after remarks like


It's about time Europe armed themselves so they don't have to depend on others, who have, so they can protect themselves for a change.

... is the one yours. Because of one good deed one's allowed to release hell on others? I don't think so. Russians "liberated" my country when your government was making deals with the enemy behind our backs.

I guess the emails I get from the home army fellows that led me to this forum here are really from the same Russians they also want to defend against, huh?

Russians, Ukranians, NATO, common criminal, whatever. Free men do not ask permission and they have the right to defend their existence however is fit to do so.

Also I have stated before, the USA has a large set of social issues that lead to interpersonal violence that Poland and much of western Europe has not experienced and no measure of imaginary "Gun control" will fix that. It is equivalent to putting a my little pony bandaid in a sucking chest wound.

Not that you will give this post any more thought than the previous and you will move onto another point and avoid the issue, but I have made my statement for those that will consider what I have to say.

News reports are more reliable. There are no 'incursions' into Polish territory.


Who?


You have an interesting point of view, however the long and the short of it is that guns are not an 'obsession' in Europe; most people never think about them and there is no significant social movement to change the status quo.