European obsession with firearm ownership.

You can state it 102 times if you like. It still isn't a reason to change the laws in Europe, where gun crime is low and nobody wants to change that.

As you can keep promoting your personal opinion pretending it is the voice of all of Europe. (which it is not)

This is article was in the Conservative American news today 4/9/15 that Europe doesn't get to see.
This is true gun control.

ST. LOUIS - St. Louis County police say an 11-year-old boy fatally shot a 16-year-old intruder during a home invasion.
Sgt. Brian Schellman says officers responded Thursday afternoon to a report of a shooting at a north St. Louis County home.
He says officers arrived to find the 16-year-old boy dead inside.
Police believe the teen made it inside the home on his third attempt to break in and say the 11-year-old shot him in the head.

Schellman says a 4-year-old girl was also inside. Neither she nor the 11-year-old was hurt.
Authorities have not identified the second suspect, who they say fled but was found a short time later.

I sure the hell would have rather read that story then how parents come home to find their children with their throats cut.

Wake up and smell the coffee. Do you see people marching in the streets all across Europe demanding more liberal gun laws? No you don't.


Irrelevant. Totally and absolutely irrelevant. In Europe people don't care who shoots who over there - it isn't a problem we have. Due to gun control.

No, it is totally relevant as this is the other side of the coin that you want no one to see or hear.
Another success story with a gun that saved lives.
jon do I detect a little hostility in your tone.
You just can't admit you are wrong can you ?
It is only a matter of time before Europeans are afforded this freedom of choice.

You mean the other side of the Atlantic - an irrelevance to Europe.


Because we in Europe are right about Europe - people just don't want to liberalise gun laws.

Oh very much a relevance jon as these success stories are hidden from the news media.
Europe only hears about the drive by's in the Black ghetto's of the five big cities in the U.S.A.
Now they know the rest of the story why it is such a freedom to own a gun.
The more success stories they see the more they will be obsessed to own one to protect their families.

Bullcrap. It's on the front page today.

And none of the comments on the online version - not one - are suggesting we liberalise our gun laws or change them in any way.

WE, there you go again jon, you are from Turkey not Europe so you don't qualify as a "we" anymore then I do.

Your measly little worthless opinion does not represent all of Europe.
America does not want to influence the liberalization of gun laws in Europe.
America just wants Europe to be free from all the Liberal media propaganda about responsible gun owners.
Once they learn the truth they will demand the freedom of owning one to protect their families from people that
have them illegally.
If you don't personally want to own one you don't have to.

You always resort to lame insults when you lose an argument. Which is of course always.


You certainly don't speak for all of the US - certainly not the Democrat voting majority.


Remember, JohnnyReb, that people in Europe are far better informed (and educated) than you guys - and this has not led to American-style liberalisation of gun laws and tether's no sign of it ever doing so.

Except guns here tend to be very rarely used by those that aren't allowed to have them. Crime involving guns used against civilians are very, very rare. Even the police here very rarely shoot.


Indeed. We don't have large gun lobbies brainwashing uneducated people that they need to spend lots of money on defence.

Here in the U.S.A. either Delph, we know that we need to spend money on defense. $200 on a gun.
The difference between you and I is that when the police show up at my house in the middle of the night because an intruder broke into my house is that they find the intruder lying dead on the kitchen floor with a bullet hole in his head and when the police show up at your house when an intruder has broken they find you lying dead on the kitchen floor with a cell phone in your hand.

Wanna talk more about the uneducated ? (defense)

That's over there, JohnnyReb. What you fail miserably to understand is that Europe is different. And by the way, we don't have these 'home invasions' by armed criminals.

That so rarely happens that it would be front page news on the national newspapers. No-one uses guns when breaking into houses, for a start.


I think it's pretty obvious that he has no idea about what actually happens here.

I've certainly never heard of a case. As for homeowners using guns for self-defence, I wonder how often this goes wrong in the States. Defence of the home is best served by good security. Self-defence is allowable if a homeowner feels that their defence has been compromised, but that defence has to be proportionate. It is not considered defence to shoot an unarmed burglar, i.e. just about all of them in Europe.

It's actually pretty pointless arguing with Johnny, or most other Americans on this forum for that matter, when it comes to guns.
They've been brought up with them and see it as their god given right to have them.
Here in Europe, we don't have to live in fear of gun toting burglars breaking into our homes, or walking down the street and coming face to face with someone armed with one. I think that's a pretty alien concept for those Americans who have never been to Europe.

We simply don't need them.
I'm grateful I live in a country that doesn't have the right to bear arms, I can't think of anything sadder than living in fear and in my opinion, that's why so many Americans are armed. Otherwise why bother having a gun?

Also, I'm quite surprised by the thread title. It should read ' American obsession with firearm ownership', because I really don't think Europeans are obsessed with it at all. Generally, we don't need to think about things like that over here.

Amen brother. Hopefully Europe will have that freedom of choice in the near future.


I am sure that you meant defense and not defence being an English teacher and all.
In the United States home invasion gives the home owner the right to shoot and kill anyone who has broken into
their home that they feel is a threat to them. Period !
Anyone that survives a home invasion is prosecuted and given a MANDITORY four year prison sentence.
And it still happens even having said consequences.
I know that I am not going to wait for the police to show up in twenty minutes when some guy is in my house threatening me with

ANY KIND of weapon from a baseball bat to a knife. You picked the wrong house buddy, lights out. BOOM !


What do they use then ?

Is it possible to be this stupid?

This sums it up beautifully Pam. Some of them (the ones in this thread) really have no concept of the differences in culture and society. Nor do they care - they'd be very happy if the rest of the world was like their country. Fortunately not all are like that. Their NRA for example has to shout so loud about liberal gun laws because so many in their society do not like them.


This is also important - perhaps it could be changed.

Christ on a bike. Gun-loving and ignorant, what a combination.


Spelling lessons should also be manditory. But anyway.

That's the United States. In Europe, we don't work like that, mainly because no-one wants to get into a US-style arms race.


And in return, you accept a 4-5 time higher murder rate than in Europe. You're welcome.


Nothing except tools to enter with. People aren't generally so stupid as to break into occupied houses.

@ Johnny - Hopefully Europe will have that freedom of choice in the near future.

Why would you think that Europe would want the choice? Thousands upon thousands of US citizens die each year as the result of your country's right to bear arms, why would Europe want to emulate that?

Plus you talk about ' freedom of choice', but Americans aren't really free are they? I bet there are many many Americans who would rather not own guns, but feel pressured to have them because 'everyone else has got them'. That isn't having freedom to my way of thinking, that is living in fear of what might happen. You are actually all slaves to your guns.

Real freedom comes from living in a country where they are just not needed. I can't see Europeans wanting to give that up anytime soon.

@ Jon - Some of them (the ones in this thread) really have no concept of the differences in culture and society. Nor do they care - they'd be very happy if the rest of the world was like their country.

This is the problem and why really I am just wasting my time commenting here.
Johnny and other like minded Americans, will never understand this unless they spend some time in Europe and see for themselves how it works in other countries. They are so indoctrinated that I really do think they don't understand why people in Europe wouldn't want to be armed to the teeth.

The simple fact that thousands of people die needlessly in the US as a direct result of them having guns should speak for itself really, but somehow many Americans seem to able to find excuse after excuse for why they should continue to have them. Insane.

Johnny, the argument of the US gun lobby always has been that you cannot take away the guns from the good guys because then, only the bad guys have weapons. That "logic" doesn't work in Europe, because neither the good nor the bad guys have guns over there.

No, the argument is that you should (and we do) have the freedom to protect yourself and your family any way you see fit.
If some guy is raping your wife or child at knifepoint you can put your 9mm to his head and ask him why he brought a knife to a gunfight before you pull the trigger.

You living in the United States should know that by now.

Oh please, Johnny, you've used the gun lobby's argument yourself:

https://polishforums.com/off-topic-47/european-obsession-firearm-ownership-41815/2/#msg1496974

Maybe these things are commonplace over there, but certainly not here.

Please let me explain Delph.
Common place in five major cities Delph which make Europeans think the U.S. is a war zone.
Take Chicago for example in the "Hood".

CHICAGO - Diane Limas says the sound of gunfire has become so common outside her house that she's frequently calling police to complain.
With increasing gang problems to blame.
For a second consecutive year, shootings incidents are on the rise, to 1,625 so far this year, up more than 17 percent from 1,384 a year earlier.
In Chicago, gang conflicts have long been committing much of the gun violence. Police blame battles over turf and reputation for much of the bloodshed.

"We have a very big gang problem in the city of Chicago, and at the same time we have too many people carrying illegal guns without many consequences," Tracy said.

The persistent problems with violence are rooted in poverty, lack of education and lack of opportunities. The city has abandoned some neighborhoods and doesn't care what happens in some communities

So see how one city can misconstrue statistics.
Put five of these cities together and it makes America look like a warzone which America is a very big country which on the most part is very safe.

Just stay away from the Black neighborHOODS in the big cities and you will be safe.

Unless you live in Denver, Lafayette, Newtown, Charleston, Littleton ... . Nobody will ever protect you from the nutters who are able to get their hands on guns.

Five more than in Europe.


So why do you need a gun if it's safe away from those places?

Johnny, do you approve of people carrying assault weapons in public?

A gun is like a parachute, you'll probably never need one but if you do need one and don't have one you will never need one again.


Is this a trick question delph ?
I personally have never witnessed anyone carrying an assault weapon in public.
But to answer your question, depends on the circumstances and who the people are that are carrying them.

No, it's a serious question. I saw that the NRA are getting really annoyed with some idiots in Texas that seem to insist on their right to carry assault weapons in public, and surely you're against that.

motherjones.com/politics/2014/06/guns-target-open-carry-texas

These fools.

Yes I am opposed to these week end warriors of "brandishing" their assault rifles in public.
I would never think of doing something so stupid.
In fact there are laws against "brandishing" a weapon and they are on very thin ice in what they did.
They give a bad name to the law abiding responsible gun owners in the same manner the mentally ill do when they shoot up a movie theater or a train full of innocent people.

Now if it was the Oath Keeper's (retired and active military) who have been highly trained in the use of those weapons standing their ground in support of Constitutional Rights that are being tread on by it doesn't matter who, including the government, then I might have a different view of it.

Like I said, depending on the circumstance.
In the circumstance you gave here in Texas I would say those "wanna be's" should have those weapons taken away from them as they are a threat to society and law enforcement. That group would wet their pants if they got fired on.

Some people should not be allowed to own guns and they are a prime example. They are danger to society.