Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 15

I don't give a f*** about Ukraine My only concern is the US and the money we spend on that b*******

Ukraine:

1) Hosted the base of the Russian Black Sea Fleet.

2) Manufactured the rockets that launched Russia's intercontinental ballistic missiles.

3) Produced the engines used in practically all Russian helicopters.

4) Built every single aircraft carrier that Russia ever owned.

There, that's just 4 points, over which no other large nation would ever be willing to compromise.

I can add a further 20 to it, which are just as important - starting with titanium and ending with space satellites.

But North Nigeria has had 30 years to build those capabilities themselves. They had high oil prices and some of the best brains in the world.

Instead they spaffed all that resource money on vulgar handbags and dumb wars and let the best minds go and build Google instead

When has r*SSia ever stopped meddling. They even poison Presidential candidates there that they don't like.


That's what r*SSian domination and interfering does. They spread dysfunction wherever they go. Yet in Ukraine, there's always hope, as Euromaidan showed.


Those 4 points are not reasons that any other state should 'own' them, let alone a hostile state with an abysmal human rights record. Ukrain. is not r*SSia and not r*SSian. You should have realised this by now.

I think Russian meddling is an excuse.


Sure, there's always hope, but in Ukraine it's more wishful thinking than hope.

There are two kinds of meddling. By Russia - bad. By Western democracies - good.

Novi has a point.

It's a cold hard reality, and something they've done in several places.


They were showing great signs of hope before r*SSia's illegal and unprovoked invasion. When this is over, we may well see them become a major European country; the econoimic potential is there, and the war has led to a clean out of r*SSia sympathising crooks.

@jon357

Like I said, a lot of wishful thinking.

@AntV

On r*SSia's part.

Ukraine was going from strength to strength before the illegal and unprovoked invasion.

Presumably you do want to see r*SSia out of Ukraine and the r*SSian war criminals brought to justice?

It was?


If a deal was struck that allowed Ukraine autonomy and Russia to keep what it controls now with the understanding that NATO is going to build up its eastern flank, I'd be good. I care much more about dealing with an axis of Russia-China-Iran, than I do about Ukraine driving every last Russian out and bringing Russians in front of some war crime tribunal.

Yes, it was,


Web aren't talking about 'deals' or territory; we are talking about egregious war crimes against civillians and against prisoners of war. We're talking rape (including of children). of mutilation and of mass murder.


"Some"??

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine

None of the guilty will ever be allowed to set foot in the EU again (except maybe Hungary)

If we aren't talking about deals and territory, then when are talking war in perpetuity that will lead to more death and atrocity.

Yes, "some" war tribunal. I don't see how anyone thinks Russia is going to freely subject any of its people to an international war tribunal. There is only one way that will happen: Russia is invaded and defeated and its government toppled. The amount of death, carnage, and atrocity for that to happen is not anything less than enormous.

We aren't; where crimes like murder and rape are concerned, we are talking about justice.

Do you not care about law, order and justice for victims?


No, the International Criminal Court.


"Subject them". ??


Yep; and the amount of carnage, all of it, every death, every injury, r*SSia's fault is already huge. One reason the free world is getting things right; let r*SSia grind themselves down and eventually collapse, as all authoritarian states should.

This is how russia treats soldiers... it sent a half-blind soldier who needed crutches to move.... they sent him into battle....

x.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1844084185096749404

Hardly the only case...

x.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1833148086442434577

x.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1808098253008744539

This guy is apparently fit to be sent to the front by russian officers....

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PolamKrakow and imperial Russians deny the positive effect of sanctions while I can read an optimistic article about the halted production of Russian most modern fighter Su-57 which needs Western advanced electronics but the embargo is impossible to overcome.
Hey, Novi, you bragged Russians once produced the fastest plane. I bragged they also did the fastest watch. Which one of us better anticipated today`s news about Su???

I do, but it doesn't matter if I do or don't. What matters is reality. And reality is that there is a war. The goal is to end the war.

You aren't going to get any trials or whatever you want until the war ends. It's also highly unlikely that Russia will hand over any of its people to be subjected to a trial at the ICC. So, only way to get those war criminals is by capturing (including kidnapping)--how you going to do that?

To desire justice may make us feel good, but to bring it to fruition is highly impractical. So, I say, let's not waste time on the impractical and focus in on the practical to end this war.

Now, when it is ruled by KGB thugs.
What if the gov changes and Russians desire to be treated like the West`s partner again?

Sanctions won't be lifted until all war criminals are in the dock

So if the North Nigerians ever want an Ikea bed or a McDonalds breakfast again they know what they have to do. Turn over all the murderers to justice.

What matters is reality; and the reality is that crimes of such gravity have occurred that they cannot go unpunished.


"Subjected to"??

The cold reality is that sanctions and travel restrictions will remain in place until justice is done and seen to be done.

A few months ago the Financial Times ran a report showing how Russia has been able to adjust economically in relation to the sanctions. So, I'm not sure that would be a deal breaker for the russians.


That's a big what if. Even if it changed would a new gov be willing to hand over its people to an international court? Russians aren't the most trusting folks around.

@jon357

Again, sounds all fuzzy and good, but how you going to do it.

Sanctions and travel restrictions? Haven't broken their back yet.

It takes time to break the back of the imperial monster which has bred its monstrosity for centuries. Patience, please.

If they are fine with everlasting sanctions that is cool - no reason to lift them

Because if your fist is big enough you can give the ICC the middle finger.

The US did just that already and doesn't recognize these scumbags. I am sure that the ICC was informed what would happen to the courthouse and possibly the city if they tried an American military man. Another thing why I am proud to be an American.

I know what Mossad would do to these judges...I love Mossad.

Memo to Russia haters: You can sanction Monaco. You can sanction Albania. You, azhoiles, cannot sanction Russia or China.

All you, azholes, can do is spell "Russia" the way they spell it in the Fagotstan.

I hope they are. Let the sanctions last till eternity and one day beyond!!!

Memo to the sanctions freaks:

If the US were sanctioned for the last 50 years, we would be able to make our own military electronics without relying on foreigners 10,000 miles away.

Today, a blockade of Taiwan and South Korea by China would be catastrophic to the US. We would be buying drones from Iran.

Foremost to China itself.

I'm not; the international community have that duty.


It has caused them immense problems which are only increasing with time. However as CMS9 says, if it's no big deal for you, let's keep them until the end of time.

Do you not want Ukraine to be free of r*SSians?


"Scumbags"? You mean the free world. If the ICC is so irrelevant to America, why are the filth who carried out the My Lai massacre in Vietnam unable to travel to Europe for holidays?

Funny thing about "liberation"...

Russian military liberates more areas in Kursk Region
Ukrainian forces have been driven out of two Russian villages near the border, the Defense Ministry has said

Even Russia-hating azholes would agree that when Russia removes the UA from Kursk Region, that's "liberation". Right, morons?

Why then when Russia removes the UA from Donbass, it's aggression, not liberation.

Before you say something stupid, find a document by the US State Deparfment claiming that the Donbass referendum was legally defective.

Don't bother with "recognition". Different species...