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Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 18



cms neuf
13 Feb 2025  #1171

Europe doesn't "have to supply" anything. We didn't elect him. Poland for example would only enter into commitments if it had a seat at the table as an equal to North Nigeria.

As with most things Trump its best to wait a few days and he will back away from his weird suggestion. Same as he did with his fake ass tariffs on his neighbor.

No peace deal was available 3 years ago - just an ultimatum which Zelensky rejected and the NN Nazis have been unable to enforce on the battlefield

In 6 months time there will probably be a ceasefire but with sanctions still in place until the NNs withdraw

jon357
13 Feb 2025  #1172

As with most things Trump its best to wait a few days and he will back away from his weird suggestion. Same as he did with his fake arse tariffs on his neighbour.

This is pretty well always the case. Suggesting an unworkable solution in the Middle East for example.

The reality is that he can't do anything in Europe without the Europeans and this week, Starmer, Macron etc made their positions clear.

PolAmKrakow
13 Feb 2025  #1173

@cms neuf
Europe will have to supply the peace keepers, the US will not. If they dont, watch how fast the US leaves NATO. Trumps tariffs got action from all sides, and he got exactly what he wanted. Do you really believe that Trump of Putin care about Europe getting an "equal" seat at the table? That kind of thinking or demand is delusional, especially when Poland and Trump have such a good relationship.

Pease is and was available. Z can either accept it, or become a victim to Boris and Biden. A year from now Z will not be in power in Ukraine, and Ukraine will be well into rebuilding, unless EU demands fvck things up.

cms neuf
13 Feb 2025  #1174

Why do they have to ?

What mechanisms does Trump have to force us to spend our taxpayers money and troops on something we never agreed to ?

If I told you that you have to come round and sweep the snow off my car then drive my kids to school, would you do it ?

jon357
13 Feb 2025  #1175

A year from now Z will not be in power in Ukraine,

He will...

What mechanisms does Trump have to force us to spend our taxpayers money and troops on something we never agreed to ?

None really. They tried to get the UK involved in trhe war in Vietnam that they lost. When the government said no, they dumped currency reserves to try to tank Sterling. It actually led to an export boom.

Bratwurst Boy
13 Feb 2025  #1176

to force us to spend our taxpayers money and troops on something we never agreed to ?

...na ja....it seems they can!

Germany hits 2% NATO spending target for first time since end of Cold War

reuters.com/world/europe/germany-hits-2-nato-target-first-time-since-1992-reports-dpa-2024-02-14/

🧐

PolAmKrakow
13 Feb 2025  #1177

@cms neuf
And what mechanism has the EU had to get the US to fund this fvcking disaster of a war? The EU wants to have its cake and eat it but not pay for it. US tax payers never agreed to pay for this war. If I told you that you have to supply weapons for my defence and then protect me for life when we are not even neighbors, would you do it? All this double standard bvllshit is why Americans voted for Trump.

It is simple. Trump will put a deal together. There will be some negotiation. Then a deal wil be made. If not, Ukraine will be cut off, and the EU will have to be responsible on their own for any aid. Then Trump will take the US out of NATO and the EU can deal with Russia on their own. Not a very bright scenario.

cms neuf
13 Feb 2025  #1178

So the US can leave NATO - that will mean we no longer have to buy American weapons. Want to invade some other country ? Fine, you will do it on your own. Want to intervene in the Middle East ? Fine but not from British or German airbases.

American is more powerful, but Europe is not powerless. And nobody will force us to buy North Nigerian oil again.

mafketis
13 Feb 2025  #1179

Boris and Biden for fvcking Ukraine when a peace deal was available three years ago

you've bought into that stupid story? There was no deal in sight (beyond russia's demand for Ukraine to surrender so they begin mass killings).

he EU wants to have its cake and eat it but not pay for it.

To be fair, the US was perfectly happy to pay the bills and keep european countries relatively unarmed. Can you imagine what would have happened if Germany said it would devote 5% of its budget to defense in 1992? 2002? 2012?

I do agree that the US cannot be trusted to fulfill its obligations and regional countries need to create their own security agreements without US input.

cms neuf
13 Feb 2025  #1180

I see Hegseth is already starting to backpedal on yesterday's crazy ideas

As an alcoholic wife beater he obviously thought the North Nigerian Nazis were people he could do business with, but like a lot of drunks he has woken up with some regrets

mafketis
13 Feb 2025  #1181

already starting to backpedal on yesterday's crazy ideas

Most of what he said wasn't very controversial... I've never heard of Ukrainians wanting American boots on the ground.... when was the last groundwar the US won?

And note... as soon as NATO is publicly dismissed a bunch of countries double down with support for Ukraine in NATO

Again... for the back rows. Pay no attention to what Trump (or those under him) say

Pay attention to what happens....

I have no idea what Trump will do but people making predictions on things said right now.... are probably wrong.

Something to remember. Before negotiations with a hostile party, the able negotiator always says nice things about them in public. The more they want that party to suffer the nicer the things said in public.

Again... I have no idea what Trump will do.

PolAmKrakow
13 Feb 2025  #1182

@cms neuf
LMAO do you really think the US gaf about international help? 9/11 was a one off activation of article 5, and most of NATO sent token troops. You think SK is going to be able to supply the EU with weapons? Where is all the tech weaponry going to come from? You are crazy to think the EU is strong enough without the US. And you dont have to buy US weapns now, only weapons that meet NATO standards, there a big difference. Of course no one can force you to buy Russian gas and oil again, but the EU will because it will be so cheap they cant help themselves. Like a fat kid at an all you can eat buffet.

@mafketis
Bought into the story? Its been admitted by government officials. The last full fledged ground war that the US won, Lybia 2015-2019, Iraq 2014-2021, Pakistan 2004-2018, Gulf war 1990-1991. Those are recent wars. Tell me how many wars has all of Europe won on their own. Zero. Because Europe cant keep from fighting amoung itself.

The US was never happy to pay the bills. The democratic fvcktards were happy to scam the US citizens out of hundreds of billions on a war that has no impact on the US. The US has zero obligation to Ukraine. kyivindependent.com/us-wont-send-troops-to-ukraine-pentagons-chief-says/ You dont get stories like this in the press if someone hasnt said something about it.

Take off the rose colored glasses and start seeing the hard reality.

Bobko
13 Feb 2025  #1183

What mechanisms does Trump have to force us to spend our taxpayers money and troops on something we never agreed to ?

Based on the reactions in European newspapers this past morning, it's put people on edge. Nobody seems to have this same cavalier attitude as you. Unless Europe does something quickly, it will be sidelined from the negotiations and then presented with the results as a fait accompli.

Even Ukraine is not being made party to the negotiations.

Regarding what mechanisms Trump has?

1) He could close every American base in Europe, and announce a strategic pivot to the Pacific. This may not be of much concern to Spaniards or the Irish, but it would certainly cause anxiety in places like Poland or the Baltics.

2) He could pull out of NATO entirely, and instead build a web of bilateral alliances with countries that are actually strong - like South Korea, Japan, Israel, Singapore and so on.

3) He could tariff the sh*t out of European exports to America. He's probably going to do this anyway.

4) He could designate the EU as a strategic competitor to the United States, alongside China, and restrict European access to cutting edge American innovations in semiconductor design, or other technologies.

5) As a nuclear option - Trump could sanction countries outright. He doesn't need to sanction the entire EU, just the countries that are opposed to sending forces. If you are asking what mechanisms exist - this is maybe the most effective one. Will he use it? Probably not. But would you go so far as to say it is an impossibility?

Now what can Europe do to America in return? Not much.

1) Trump constantly complains that Europe doesn't buy anything from America except for gas and oil. He's actually right about this. It also means Europe can't threaten the US by closing its markets, because it already doesn't buy anything from America.

2) If you want to spite American oil interests, the only alternative you have is to start buying oil from Russia again.

3) You could stop exporting weapons to America. This might scare them? But it would also likely kill your armaments industry since America is the number one customer.

4) You could deny the use of your ports and airports to the American military, making it much harder for them to send sh*t to the Middle East or North Africa.

5) You could place enormous export tariffs on pharma products. Currently Denmark is printing money from selling Americans weight loss drugs. If you cut their access to Ozempic and Mounjaro, maybe fat Americans will become scared. Alternatively, Novo Nordisk will just build a factory in America.

mafketis
13 Feb 2025  #1184

been admitted by government officials.

The surely there is documentation of the agreements almost signed.... where is that?

Lybia 2015-2019,
slave markets operate there...

Iraq 2014-2021,
de facto torn in two and the Islamic state happened... when?

Pakistan 2004-2018
huh? When did the US declare war on Pakistan?

Gulf war 1990-1991
closest but that was one be remote technology (which the us is very good at, it's just not good at ground operations

The US was never happy to pay the bills.

No NATO no US bases in Europe... what you want?

Bobko
13 Feb 2025  #1185

Pay no attention to what Trump (or those under him) say

How long will you delusional people use the excuse of "don't listen to what Trump actually says"?

I understand it's become very popular to throw Biden under the bus, but it's already been close to a month and Trump is shaping up to be exactly what Russia expected him to be.

Russian wins:

1) Tulsi Gabbard

2) Pete Hegseth

3) JD Vance

4) First phone call between presidents since February of 2022

5) Announced summit in Saudi Arabia

6) Shutdown of USAID (a Putin dream since the 1990s)

7) Tariffs on America's closest allies

8) NATO discord through Trump's predations on Denmark

9) A huge rally in the Russian stock market

10) Shameful looting of Ukraine for mineral wealth

But yeah... keep banking on "Trump doesn't mean what he says".

Ironside
13 Feb 2025  #1186

of "don't listen to what Trump actually says"?

Let's wait for what he will do. So far there is a lot of noise.

About Ukraine not being part of NATO - that was obvious. Only some propaganda was producing fake news to the contrary.
About Ukraine being part of the EU is not so certain but that would take a time and has nothing to do with security, most likely nothing will come of it.
What else is there?

Bobko
13 Feb 2025  #1187

What else is there?

That you lot have to send 200,000 men to Ukraine. America will send zero.

But despite not sending anyone - America expects to be rewarded with at least $500 billion of rare earths.

So long story short:

1) You pay for expensive American gas instead of cheap Russian gas

2) You still get tariffed, because Trump wants you to buy Chevrolets and Chryslers.

3) You are responsible for fixing and protecting Ukraine.

4) Ukraine lives under a huge debt burden, while losing the one asset that could have ameliorated the issue.

5) America f*cks off to the Far East to get ready for a fight with China.

Novichok
13 Feb 2025  #1188

Russian wins:

...are also American wins because Russia and the US have zero reasons to be enemies.

Competitors - OK, but not enemies.

1) Tulsi Gabbard

2) Pete Hegseth

3) JD Vance

What a troika...Perfect.

johnny reb
13 Feb 2025  #1189

But yeah... keep banking on "Trump doesn't mean what he says".

And I love it.
Father Trump comes out with a bold statement, the Liberal media and people like you jump all over it and spend all week contributing your negative in response to it.
Father Trump keeps you busy on fools errands while he is working behind the scene.
Then he comes out the next week and says, "no, I changed my mind and am going to do the opposite. Hoot !
Pure genius not showing your enemy your cards.

Bobko
13 Feb 2025  #1190

Pure genius

Yes, very stable genius. I would hate to get in his way.

Doing the Lord's work.

Novichok
13 Feb 2025  #1191

I can't take it anymore...Christmas every damn day...

From RT,com:

Pete Hegseth tears into European allies as Trump forces NATO into screeching U-turn: 'Uncle Sam will not be Uncle Sucker'

From Novipress: Fvck you, Euros...carry your own shlt...

Russia, get your shlt together and finish them off or are you waiting for the US to do it for you?


jon357
13 Feb 2025  #1192

Hegseth can do diddlysquat in Europe without Europe's say so.

Bobko
13 Feb 2025  #1193

Hegseth can do diddlysquat in Europe without Europe's say so.

Correct.

What's more - Hegseth expects Europe to do everything that concerns Europe.

What a novel and crazy idea.

Novichok
13 Feb 2025  #1194

Hegseth can do diddlysquat in Europe without Europe's say so.

No, moron...That's not how it works.

All the US has to is...NOTHING...and you are going down...U first...

Amazing how often doing nothing brings good results. Like not azfvcking a guy with AIDS.

jon357
13 Feb 2025  #1195

As I say, frustrated dwarflike coffin dodger, they can do diddlysquat in Europe without Euope's say so.

Novichok
13 Feb 2025  #1196

they can do diddlysquat in Europe without Europe's say so.

The US doesn't have to do shlt to send Euros into a total panic...

Just refuse to import your crappy cars, leave NATO, and stop coming as tourists...You would shlt a brick...

No, you don't have any leverage over the US.

Bobko
13 Feb 2025  #1197

they can do diddlysquat in Europe without Euope's say so.

You are delusional.

Most Americans couldn't find Europe on a map.

Most Americans do not know Spain from Portugal.

America would be completely fine, if tomorrow morning Europe ceased to exist.

They don't know anything about you, and they don't have to learn anything either if they want to make a deal with Russia. Why? Because for Russia you represent the same sh*t stain.

You are an empty spot on the map. Completely impotent. Without a voice, without a vote, without a f*cking box to stand on.

Sit down, and wait for your turn to speak.

jon357
13 Feb 2025  #1198

Most Americans couldn't find Europe on a map.

Most can't find America on a map.

This isn't about most Americans though, is it...

And their government can do nothing in Europe without the consent of European governments.

Crow
13 Feb 2025  #1199

Poland should take in consideration fact that the USA led by Trump refusing to serve as beck-up to western European powers, Vatican included. Kind of rebellion. In fact, very similar to rebellion of Russia that also decided to end its own era of servitude to western Europe and the papacy.

So, Poland should think twice before continuing its path within the EU and as part of the EU. Comparing to the USA and Russia, Poland seams willing to continue to serve.

Novichok
13 Feb 2025  #1200

Sit down, and wait for your turn to speak.

The post of the day. Bravo.

And their government can do nothing in Europe without the consent of European governments.

Remember how France refused US planes to fly over on the way to Libya?

As the US president, I would do just that today after sending a one-word email: Tariffs.


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