Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 7

russia missed countries... if any country needs denazification it's Montenegro....

How so?

twitter.com/MagicJohnson/status/1688604878803972097

One famous American who is currently visiting on a holiday here has a completely different experience & view from yours.

youtube.com/watch?v=BdYpzvo1CZI

I assume you mean "How come?"

And the answer to that is that presumably he only went out in daylight and therefore didn't meet you.

@mafketis
@jon357

Please remove your claws from Montenegro! The most holy country in the universe, after mother country of the universe.

Montenegrins are a proud, loyal, pious, and courageous people in need of no denazification.

We are very happy to have them as friends. And not just because they may very well sit on the best piece of Adriatic coastline.

Really? Isn`t it a NATO member??? :):):)


Proud NATO member, right. :):):)

Hard to say if "proud". What do you know of Montenegro?

In 2006 they had a referendum if they should be independent from Serbia. Results were something like 55/45, with the votes in favor of NATO that carried the day amounting to less than 3K votes.

The country is essentially the private feudal kingdom of a dude name Djukanovic. Being part of Serbia, meant an end to his little kingdom. He applied enormous resources to get the necessary result.

If you are inclined to think I am acting as Russian troll, educate yourself about the wonderful character under the name of Milo Djukanovic.

It is. And it's one that looks west rather than towards r*SSia.

Quoting:

Western officials losing faith in Ukraine's military - CNN
Reports from the battlefield have become increasingly "sobering," one US Congressman has told the network

A spokesman for Cato Institute said that the counteroffensive seems to be failing regardless of how many British morons misspell "Russia" and "Putin".

Read this article too.

Can't say I feel bad for these people.

Could anyone explain to me again - without insults and references to intercourse with transsexual people - why must Poland be involved so much on Ukrainian side? Why can't Poles adapt the prudent approach of wise Hungarian and Austrian nations in this regard? Is this really our war, and if so - why?

Thanks in advance.

*gotta go, will check your interesting (no doubt) answers later*

Because most people in Poland realize that if putain succeeds in Ukraine then Poland is, if not next, not very far back.... russian aggression doesn't stop when it is successful.


Because russia doesn't have kompromat on Polish leaders? Seriously, Orban began as a strong anti-soviet politician and then there was a fateful trip to moscow... after which he became pro-russian....


If russia is successful it will be Poland's war.... give me several examples of countries that trusted in russia's good intentions and then think of what happened to them....

Well, this deserves only insults.

But I'll humour you for a moment and give you one important of many other reasons - Hungary and Austria don't share a border with RuSSia and, unlike in case of Hungary and Austria - half of Poland's Eastern border is with Ukraine and another half - with Belarus.

Of course any moron knows this and you know very well why Poland is helping Ukraine, so what happened to your brain again, Kania?

They're not being especially wise, supposedly being full members of NATO while almost pitching their lot in with r*SSia, a country behaving as if it's still 1850.

Anyone would think r*SAia had never invaded them.


Neutral, and the shell of a former empire.

Make no mistake, this is something that no European country (or any close to r*SSia except China) can avoid taking sides in, and the issue is a black and white one. Support good or support evil.

I'd day friendly neutral and very pragmatic (e.g. in banking and finances sector).

@Maf, Paulina

Thank you for your answers, but I don't buy this "Poland is next", "Russia would invade" arguments. We are Poles - in case of Russian invasion two things would happen, we would:

1. inhale them with one nostril
2. snort them out with the other.

Besides, Russia had/has no intention of ever invading any NATO country. No, give me a better reason.

@Jon

Good and Evil? Seriously? The world is not black and white, and we're not 12 anymore. Give me a better reason, please.

Austria has been neutral since ww2 and after the fall of the soviet union, so they get a pass.
Hungary will have the righteous vengeance and furious anger of the combined power of USA/NATO/EU heaped upon it next couple of years for their gross betrayal. The last country Poland wants to be in the near future is our brotherly Hungary.

plus.. we can't let the bastards win.

This war is however black and white and yes, good and evil.


Unfortunately.

And should r*SSia prevail there will be a lot of kids out there who won't reach 12 anyway.

We were Poles during the partitions, in 1939 and for the next half of a century after 1945. It didn't help us much.


You're being shortsighted and...:


...amoral.

@Paulina

Partitions - three superpowers ganged up on us;

1939 - two strongest land armies in the world invaded us from all directions, north, east, west and south; it was an encirclement battle no country would win;

1945 - our allies f*cked us over and the most powerful land army came to stay.

2023 - we are in NATO; west, south and north are secure.
Two nostrils.

And don't talk about morals to me - they don't apply in international politics, as we found out many times.

Better reasons, please.

@BB

:)

You know me, I always tell it like it is.

I think it has every intention of testing NATO by inch-by-inch provocations and incursions (you think the helicopters over Białowieża were an accident). You think the missle around Bydgoszcz was an accident? How many "accidents" are you willing to tolerate?

Knowing NATO it will be very reluctant to acknowledge these provocations....

Gazmanov may be an idiot and propagandist but do you think he'd be saying this if it weren't an approved message?

twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1685726598035640320

If RuSSia takes over Ukraine and Belarus one day that won't be a small and weak army to deal with either.


And they can f*ck us over again. You think that why is PiS buffing up the Polish army so much? Even in the NATO's Article 5 it says that NATO countries are obliged to help the attacked country in the way they see fit. So Germany and France can send us bandages, for example lol


I will. Or this world won't be worth fighting for.

You sound positively russian!


In for a penny.... if Ukraine prevails Poland's international brand (as an indisensable ally) will rise and Poland will have lots of economic opportunities in rebuilding Ukraine.

If russia prevails.... Poland is up sh1t creek without a paddle in sight... liable to take the lion's share of the human brunt (as millions flee russian rule) and economic consequences (want to invest in a country next to an aggressive expanding empire?)

If Ukraine prevails while Poland is dialing back help and being reasonable like russian asset Orban then it will locked out of reconstruction possibilities.

In short... too late to turn back now.

I have to agree here....there is no way to predict how far Putin will go, we lost that ability as he invaded Ukraine....the former, rational, sane Putin would had NEVER done that....the actual Putin, who knows!

And yet just two days ago, you were freaking out that Ukranians would not apply debts of gratitude and sentimentality to their political actions! carefull now your contradictions are becoming as farcical and ridiculous as novichoks! Do you really want to be seen as a russian invasion cheerleader/clown on this forum?

I doubt it. They said already that after the war we won't be their close friends but competitors.


White, Christian, hard-working Slavic people. A tragedy indeed.


Yes, I'm afraid it is.

@amiga500

I was merely appalled at Ukrainians biting the hand that feeds them.

I am by no means a "pro-Russian invasion cheerleader" but I never denied the fact that I'm a huge Russophile so this war is a thorn in my heart. :(

Even the Russians aren't cheerleading the war. Like hell I will let Russia haters here crap on Russia as if Russia was uniquely bad and aggressive. That title belongs to the US and its warmongering MIC and I will oppose any attempt to take it away from them.

BTW, learn English. It's "Russia", not russia.

FYI, a spokesman for Cato Institute said that the counteroffensive seems to be failing regardless of how many morons misspell "Russia" and "Putin".

Don't be such a drama queen.... it was one guy who said that after the war the countries will also be in competition....

Vlad Vexler (born in the USSR) said that putain does not understand the idea of political opposition. That is, he doesn't understand the concept that most western countries' political systems are based on.... opposition at one level (what politicies should be implemented and how) and alliance at another (the well-being and best interests of the country).

the US and the UK are simultaneously allies and competitors... that's what he meant. That would represent real progress.


So you apply moral principles to them.... but not to Poland..... sounds pretty hypocritical if you ask me....

@mafketis

Well said. Poland has a lot to gain from an Ukrainian victory and a loot to loose from a Russian victory. As the most immediate consequence it would then share

a 1000km border with a hostile Russia and its' puppets and most likely face another, more severe refugee crisis (both from Ukrainians and migrants Russia might send this way).

Avoiding this scenario should be well worth supporting Ukraine.

Poland is a peaceful, democratic country and as such they'll hardly expect blind loyalty from Ukraine once the war is over. That is something that sets it apart from imperialistic regimes like Putin's. Such ties between countries also tend to be more stable in the long run.

Things that make you go.... "hmmmmmmmmm"

Forbes, a couple of days ago.... is russia solving it's optics shortage?

forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/08/07/a-shortage-of-optics-was-holding-back-russian-tank-production-that-shortage-may-have-ended/?sh=3e4d089e3dff

This morning...

twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1689212246696542208

russia said something about a fireworks plant exploding (why would you have that next to a military factory?) but....

twitter.com/yarotrof/status/1689197904185978880

twitter.com/olex_scherba/status/1689230869041410048

Yes, it is. Would you be so kind as to go and tell it to European Commission?

Breaking Germany-Russia partnership benefits Poland. Aiding Ukraine supports our ally and hurts Russian imperial ambitions. Putting pressure on Germany to aid Ukraine (now also with tanks!) prevents Berlin's return to amicable relations with Moscow in the foreseeable future. Building transatlantic energy relations (all these LNG terminals) helps to close European markets to Russian energy resources, not only today, but also tomorrow.

Oh, I do care about how many Ukrainians die and hope their casualties will be as low as possible for them to achieve their war goals. If you do not believe I do it for humanitarian or moral reasons, than consider the practical ones: if Ukraine manages to keep its independence in this war, it will be integrated into NATO and become our not only formal, but also closest and most valued ally within the Alliance. Since Russia is the only enemy able to even scratch NATO, and we together will form its first line of defense, we will be working very closely. Of course I hope our neighbor and ally manages to keep its strength - and a hope for demographic rebirth in future years.

I also do believe that Ukraine's loss in this war would not end conflicts in Europe. On the contrary, it would make them more possible. Russia overconfident with its victory 'over whole NATO' in Ukraine would be more willing to test the Alliance, and that may escalate into a full scale war, only this time on a much larger scale. Hence, I hope that Ukraine manages to prevail and keep its independence. Such victory would result in a deep crisis of Russian statehood and open up another 'window of opportunity' (like after the fall of Soviet Union) for more countries - like Moldavia, Georgia and perhaps one day even Belarus - to escape the toxic influence of Moscow.