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Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 7



PolAmKrakow
4 Oct 2023  #2941

@mafketis
I am not saying all of it will be spent domestically, but you can bet a good portion of it will be. If single item spending bills are actually adopted in congress, and I think they have a chance, then everything in the US spending will change because it will become transparent.

A big breakthrough can still happen for Ukraine. If they get the planes by the end of the year, they can continue to advance through the winter. But if there is no breakthrough by the second anniversary of the war, they need to negotiate. It is just a practical view of things.

mafketis
4 Oct 2023  #2942

who's the lonely lion and who's the pack of hyenas?

Ukraine is the Lion and the russian rabble put into uniforms to steal, rape and kill are the hyenas.

Velund
4 Oct 2023  #2943

It's a bit confusing to tell, isn't it? :)

But poetical nature found a way to dodge around painful truth, as you can see above. ;)

Lenka
4 Oct 2023  #2944

Even if I weren't a Russophile, I might become one after reading some of the stuff posted here.

Well, I certainly stopped being Russophile and are heading toward Russophobe after some of the stuff posted here.

Novichok
4 Oct 2023  #2945

Mafketis is a american citizen as well afaik

...so is Biden and all the damn warmongers around the a-hole.

Well, I certainly stopped being Russophile and are heading toward Russophobe

So you must really hate the US for 300,000 dead Iraqi civilians. It's strange that you never mentioned it here.

Bobko
4 Oct 2023  #2946

The percent of the US budget that republicans are promising to redirect... it's that little thin thing on the right 0.6 percent of the budget?

Most misleading way to explain the issue...

The US federal budget is divided into three broad categories. So called "mandatory" spending, constitutes 65% or so, of total spending. This includes Medicare/Medicaid, Social Security, and other things that the government has no right to touch. Another 5-6% is made up of scheduled interest payments (no way avoiding these either, without imploding the US credit rating).

That leaves only around 30% or so, for discretionary spending, or what US politicians actually have some control over. Attaching below a chart providing a breakdown of US discretionary spending in FY 2022.

You can see, that the ~$130B or so that has been spent on Ukraine, is more than for any other government department with the exception of the Pentagon. Yes, that means that more was spent on Ukraine than on the Dept of Education, the Dept of Transportation, the Dept of Energy, the Department of Veteran's Affairs, and so on and so forth.

You NATO cheerleaders keep trying to make it sound like US support for Ukraine costs peanuts - when any intelligent person can see that it's approaching 10% of the total amount of spending that politicians have control over. Not 0.6% - but almost 10%!

Now remember that Ukraine has 27M people, and the United States has 350M people. Ukraine is an enormous drain on American treasure, and it's the truth. One of the biggest issues in American politics for years and years has been a border wall. The Trump border wall, had an all-in estimated cost of $20B. I think he managed to spend $8B, before getting voted out. Well - that $20B, that all of America fought over for years, is many times less than what was spent on Ukraine.


  • IMG_7223.png

Novichok
4 Oct 2023  #2947

I am not saying all of it will be spent domestically,

It's actually very simple...DC collects 3.2T in taxes. It spends 1T on the military. Soon, the sobs will push the debt to 40T. At 5% rate, they will have to pay 2T in interest. That leaves zero to run the country. Print, default, or a bloody revolution - if Americans had the balls. They have been systematically LGBTized so no real danger of that,

My suggestion: Just as men can pretend they are women, let's pretend that debt is savings. Problem solved. Let's have some fun for a change...

Novichok
4 Oct 2023  #2948

The Trump border wall, had an all-in estimated cost of $20B.

Even Trump's wall was meant to be only a decoration and a bragging point.
When a wall has a big hole, it's not a wall. In our case, the Border Patrol guys are nothing but a welcoming delegation and a fu*cking joke. The Vatican controls its wall better.

Bobko
4 Oct 2023  #2949

it has to be said that the hyena is doing quite well.

No, the hyena promised (nobody remembers to whom) - that it would eat the lame lion cub within 3 days. It failed.

GefreiterKania
4 Oct 2023  #2950

But poetical nature found a way to dodge around painful truth

Well, poetry can only take you so far. I wonder what poem would Александр Блок write about this war.

the hyena promised (...) that it would eat the lame lion cub

Do you know who the real hyenas are?

Bayer-Monsanto, DowDuPont/Corteva, BASF etc. - the international GMO food producers who control, among other things, most of Ukrainian grain production and have profit as their supreme god. Not to mention the military complex companies; masters of puppets, pulling everybody's strings. If those hyenas were put to sleep then all the bears, white eagles and trident-wielding lions could hold hands and sing kumbaya together.

amiga500
4 Oct 2023  #2951

No, the hyena promised (nobody remembers to whom) - that it would eat the lame lion cub within 3 days.

the tactics of the hyena tell the story, I guess the failed il-76 landings at Hostomel, filled with paratroopers that were meant to seize kiev with the help of co-oped gov and military leaders tell you nothing?, as well as Rosgvardiya being sent in the front colums, with riot gear?

It's all there in the Rusi report. static.rusi.org/359-SR-Ukraine-Preliminary-Lessons-Feb-July-2022-web-final.pdf

while the Russian invasion plan almost definitely did not expect to have all of Ukraine conquered within 3 days, 3 days does match up with the timeline for when they envisioned the various elements of their forces consolidating in and around Kyiv and if that plan had succeeded they would've had Kyiv in more or less that timeline.

Also your propaganda media kept yelling about it..
The usual suspects here streamable.com/cn5fvr short compilation

this pre-war article goes into the russian pro-war narrative of how short and easy the war would be. the notion that Ukraine would be defeated in days or even hours was absolutely floating around before this round of the war kicked off

nvo.ng.ru/realty/2022-02-03/3_1175_donbass.html

The ruskis accidently put out a RIA Novosti article gloating about how they created a new multipolar world and Ukraine would be 'settled' once and for all which is something you would only put out if you were pretty sure you'd be marching through Kyiv in 72 hours. The entire planning and nature of the attack, such as trying to rush in riot cops to Kyiv is in line with this thinking.

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1498310064117059585.html

mafketis
4 Oct 2023  #2952

300,000 dead Iraqi civilians

You _HATE_ Iraqis.... why do you care about that number? Unless.... you hate America more.

Bobko
4 Oct 2023  #2953

If those hyenas were put to sleep then all the bears, white eagles and trident-wielding lions could hold hands and sing kumbaya together.

Oh that would be amazing...

A friend of mine, that is from Kyrgyzstan (but half Ukrainian and half Jewish), had moved to Kiev some years before the war. Thanks to his Kyrgyz passport, he's been able to continue moving around. Instead of Kiev, he now does most of his meetings in Lvov, where he travels to from Poland, or Romania by car.

His wife is Ukrainian, and my ex was Ukrainian. So... me and him have quite a bit of vested interest in this conflict.

A few days ago we were talking over the phone, and he was asking me: "How do you see this ending?". I gave him my prognosis, and then he shared his own.

He's a big believer in markets, and that markets - in their eternal wisdom - can "price-in" everything. So his thesis, is that Ukraine will at least not lose Kiev, because prices for Class A real estate in Kiev have bottomed out some time ago, and since then have only risen.

I told him that prices for Kiev real estate may be artificially propped up by government imposed capital controls which make it difficult to take USD and EURO out of Ukraine. He told me there is some truth to this, but also - that people broadly expect Kiev to survive the war largely intact, and to resume its place as the heart of Ukrainian economic and cultural life after the war.

I asked him, "What if you are wrong? What if Ukraine collapses and Kiev falls?".

His initial answer, "For me it would probably make life easier" (he imports Ukrainian goods, for which the main market is still the CIS). We laughed. But then he continued to say, "It might make things easier, but at that point I would probably emigrate. To the United States or somewhere in Europe."

The problem is, we can continue to make as much money as we ever made, or maybe even more - but the rest of the world closes to us. Right now, many venture funds and larger institutional investors are simply avoiding any entity which has Russian end beneficiaries (or even transacts with a Russian entity).

So then finally, I shared my PF plan for referenda, which involved the lifting of sanctions. I told him, "They lift all the sanctions from us, but we have to stop the war - in return we get to keep C, D, L, Z, and K." Of course, he called me a Russian imperialist, and told me he will never shake my hand, but then he said this would largely work to everyone's benefit. "You f*ck off from them, and they get to join the EU and NATO and build a normal life for themselves away from you. In twenty years, everyone would be happy."

Just a little snippet from the lives of Russians and Ukrainians.

amiga500
4 Oct 2023  #2954

You _HATE_ Iraqis.... why do you care about that number?

Hahaha, yep. That's 300 thousand less brown muslim migrant scum coming across the border, Novi you should be congratulating your goverment!

Novichok
4 Oct 2023  #2955

Novi you should be congratulating your government!

My gov has a habit of starting wars, losing them, and, as a souvenir, bringing 300,000 locals back to the US as a reward for letting us fight for their "freedom and democracy".

That's the level of US insanity that has become our new normal. See the last days of A.

GefreiterKania
4 Oct 2023  #2956

A friend of mine, that is from Kyrgyzstan (but half Ukrainian and half Jewish)

You have very interesting friends, I must say.

Mine are not nearly as ethnically diverse but they make up for their boring monoethnicity with the levels of creative madness. One of them, a Konfederacja sympathiser, claims that the tanks and howitzers that we sent to Ukraine will soon enough turn their guns westwards and that after this "phoney war" (as he calls it) is over, the real thing will start. Scary stuff, isn't it? And the guy is not an idiot (well, not strictly speaking at least), he has a PhD in physics and is during his habilitation. Also, he's a moderate Russophile. I noticed an interesting thing among my friends and acquaintances: engineers, mathematicians, physicists and even lower technical staff are mostly pro-Russian, whilst the humanists, historians and poets tend to be of a more pro-Ukrainian inclination. I wonder whether that means that too little history/poetry is taught at technical faculties or too little logic at humanist ones. ;)

Novichok
4 Oct 2023  #2957

too little logic at humanist ones. ;)

Humanists are just retarded children refusing to grow up. Unfortunately, they are allowed to vote.

Crnogorac3
4 Oct 2023  #2958

youtu.be/pzWVkHlAXhQ

They have started losing their heads because of their own politics.

amiga500
4 Oct 2023  #2959

@crnogorafag3
post this stuff in the usa thread.

mafketis
4 Oct 2023  #2960

300,000 locals back to the US

So you don't care at all about 300,000 dead Iraqis in Iraq you care about live Iraqis in the US. Noted.

And you never even mentioned which war in Iraq you were so upset about.... there've been at least three major Iraqi wars since 1980.

GefreiterKania
4 Oct 2023  #2961

Unfortunately, they are allowed to vote.

And, also unfortunately, they make up about 95% of any society.

Of course, this is only true when by humanists we understand idiots who don't get mathematics or physics. Genuine humanists, meaning people who know Latin and ancient Greek (as well as at least two modern foreign languages) and are well versed in literature, fine arts and history, are as rare as genuine technical intelligentsia.

Oh, well... maybe I'm just getting old and the feeling I get about the ever-increasing idiocy of the world around me can be blamed on the aging process.

Bobko
4 Oct 2023  #2962

I noticed an interesting thing among my friends and acquaintances

Most curious.

As a self-hating Humanitarian, this is unpleasant.

I think the dichotomy you describe, between too little history vs too little logic, is correct.

Unfortunately, when it comes to driving politics... humanitarians are in charge of the train (at least in most places). This could explain a lot about what we are witnessing.

GefreiterKania
4 Oct 2023  #2963

This could explain a lot about what we are witnessing.

*nods emphatically*

ConstantineK
4 Oct 2023  #2964

myslpolska.info/2023/10/03/rekas-ukrainski-szantaz-zbozowy-drugie-dno/

Novichok
4 Oct 2023  #2965

Feelings vs. reason...Now vs. sustainable...Nice vs. cold-blooded...Women vs. men...We are fu*cked since there are fewer of us.

GefreiterKania
4 Oct 2023  #2966

myslpolska.info

Kostya, my man, quoting quality sources again. *thumbs up*

Perhaps I was too hasty to threaten you with a surface-to-air missile. My apologies.

ConstantineK
4 Oct 2023  #2967

Perhaps I was too hasty to threaten you with a surface-to-air missile. My apologies.

I cannot be evil coz my personal views are very close to communism.

GefreiterKania
4 Oct 2023  #2968

my personal views are very close to communism

Very well. I take my apologies back. Consider yourself threatened with a missile again.

*pouts*

Bobko
4 Oct 2023  #2969

I cannot be evil coz my personal views are very close to communism

You are a funny guy.

Care to explain the meaning behind your words?

Mr Grunwald
4 Oct 2023  #2970

@ConstantineK
Very strange thought process
Communism is evil after all

If a guy stabs you for no reason really while taking your wallet afterwards, one would think he is a lethal thief, but then tells you: "No, it's for equality and betterment of humanity"

Could you explain to us your concept of evil? Seems like words mean differently to you then for me


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