Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 19

Good thread on ways that Biden scr3wed Ukraine....

x.com/JPLindsley/status/1894243628450488447

@Bobko


Which doesnt really say much, given that the UK, France and Germany put together could have fielded less than 1000 tanks in 2021. While Russia could and did field more than that. Russia has lost more than 3500 tanks so far in this war. This is twice as much as all European countries have right now available.

Russia in 2021 had an "official" defence budget of 50bn (which excludes a lot of funds provided by oligarchs). Ukraine's defence budget was 6bn. Ukraine was only able to produce T-64 tanks in meaningful numbers and that production was the target of Russian sabotage attempts.

I dont know what kind of source you provided, but it is clear that those numbers are pure fantasy. Every expert assumed that Kiev would fall within days and that the Ukrainians would be overrun within weeks, simply because the numerical advantage of the Russians were too great. We are now in the 4th year of this war. And despite high Russian casualty rates and Western aid, the Russian still have a numerical advantage in soldiers, planes, tanks and artillery ammunition. The idea that both sides were even remotely comparable when the war broke out in the light of that is simply laughable.

@GefreiterKania


And the fact that the Soviet leadership made crucial mistakes that Pilsudski exploited. Which is the signs of a great general. But like I said, the odds were against Poland. So yeah, thr SU should have won this war.

Soon it will be 7000 in Polish nationalists` reports. :):):)

It was Soviet Russians who first colluded with Nazis in dismantling Poland and exterminating its elites in 1939. Even Nazis didn`t murder thousands of POW like Soviets.

Germans murdered 2 million Soviet POWs in 1941 alone, you moron...

Darling, we were talking about Poland. Pay attention.

The end is near and Z ain't gonna like it.

Long live Russia...Kick U ass harder and faster ... so I can safely visit Russia.


I don't give a damn what you are talking about. I am talking what I want to be talking about...

OK, time to talk about your prostrate cancer. Will give the same effect. hahahaha

Numbers are from American defense think tanks. Google is your friend!

It's possible that a large part of the numbers listed represent derelict equipment that cannot be refurbished or modernized. But the same caveat applies to Russia.


It is the third year of this god awful war, and a very large part of Ukraine's military has never seen a Western weapon.

Most Territorial Defense Brigades and National Guard brigades are fully Soviet equipped. They are fully based on T-64s, MTLB-Us, 152 mm tube artillery, 82 mm mortars, RPG-7s, and AK-74Ms.

Very few brigades have been provided Challengers, Abrams, Leopards, etc. Most continue to fight with the legacy Soviet tanks they inherited, or captured from us.

HIMARS are a rare, and elusive beast. Most artillery battalions are equipped with 2S1 Gvozdika, 2S3 Akatsiya, and BM21 Grad.

The majority of infantry, do not move in Bradley's, or Marders, or CV90s, or Strykers, but in BMPs and MTLBs. Many move on SUVs provided by volunteers.

The lion's share of Russian drones and missiles are shot down by Soviet era SAMs. Only Kiev, Dnipro, and Odessa are protected largely by Western systems.

Ukraine is still fighting more on its Soviet stockpiles than on NATO aid. This is why when aid does come from the West, the most important aid is usually from Bulgaria, Poland, and Czechia - that themselves have large Soviet stockpiles.

... and hopefully the last one.

I never realized how large the Ukrainian post-Soviet weapons stockpiles were. But we should be justified in our ignorance because Ukraine has been crying for weapon deliveries from the very beginning of the conflict and making it sound as if they were going to fall any time without our aid. So, you're saying they were being overly dramatic and could have easily fought with their own stockpiles. Damn it. We could still use some of the equipment ourselves (especially Mig-29s, Mi-24s, PT-91s, Krabs, Borsuks, Pioruns, FlyEyes, Warmates and all the trainloads of artillery ammo that we might need one day).

Why are we always so gullible? :(

What a day!


bild.de/politik/medienbericht-ukraine-stimmt-rohstoff-deal-mit-usa-zu-67be10f2528e9e4f96b10e32

Germany goes nuclear (maybe) and the war in Ukraine is coming to an end soon now that Trump got what he wanted (maybe).....

....Ukraine is said to have agreed to a raw materials deal with the USA, reports the British newspaper "Financial Times" citing Ukrainian government officials. Apparently, Kiev is ready to sign an agreement on the joint development of natural resources. As the news agency AFP reports, the agreement could be signed on Friday.....

And it won't be so bad for Ukraine:

...Apparently, the US has dropped one of its most controversial demands: the claim to 500 billion US dollars in potential revenue from the exploitation of the raw materials....

....
Now the 500 billion dollars are supposed to be off the table. The current version of the agreement provides for the establishment of a fund into which Ukraine is to pay 50 percent of the revenue from the "future monetization" of state-owned raw materials (including oil, gas). The fund is to invest in projects within Ukraine. For final approval, Zelenskyj needs the approval of the Ukrainian parliament.

Russophiles are gullible coz they believe in dirty Russian propaganda. While true patriots are not and they know that Ukraine needs more armament and ammo for yesterday. Ha!!!

Ouch. :(

So the victim of the war is going to pay reparations! And to the country which profited from the war the most!


Joint development... yeah right. Economic colonization at its worst. Though I suppose Ukraine didn't have much choice in the circumstances. So, their farming belongs to western corporations, natural resources will be "jointly developed" by Americans, they lost 15 million citizens to emigration, lost 20% of their territory and a couple of hundred thousand of military age men. I wonder if some people in Ukraine aren't having second thoughts about this whole affair.

Absolutely not, but it still provides the backbone of the Ukrainian army.

Certain Western capabilities are "multiplicative", where their presence is still strongly felt despite seemingly homeopathic quantities. First and foremost this applies to long range precision strikes, which can have hugely damaging effects on Russian command and control.

The weapons that can "bring the war home for Russia", are mainly Western. This is why we get so upset when they are transferred.

But the weapons that give Ukraine's its staying ability, and allows them to hold onto ground so ferociously - is mostly Soviet.

It's normal for them to stockpile Western weapons within elite formations, that are supposed to effect some big breakthrough. Like the 47th brigade during the 23 Summer Offensive. The 68 Jaeger brigade. The 92nd Air Assault Brigade, and so on.

Anyway, I think it's stupid to say that Ukraine could fight without Western weapons, but this doesn't mean that Soviet weapons don't still make up the lion's share of their kit.

That!

Better than vanishing into non-existence with a defeat and/or more years of destruction!

Don't forget:


welt.de/politik/ausland/article255533096/Ukraine-Wiederaufbau-kostet-mehr-als-500-Milliarden-Dollar.html

Most of that will fall on us...but that will help too...better than nothing!

Is it? Is it really?

Did you think about this deeply?

Many pro-Ukrainian Americans and Brits on Twitter think the same as you. Strangely enough, however, this position of "fight-to-the-death" seems to be extremely irritating to the overwhelming majority of Ukrainians on the platform.

Is the freedom of Ukraine worth the life of your husband, your brother, your son?

Is the freedom of Ukraine worth, never again seeing your home town as you remembered it in your childhood?

People are exhausted, heartbroken, and angry. You think: "Let's allow the Americans to rape us, but at least we'll make the Russians pay"... is an attractive point of view?

Oh, so we are also getting the rare earth minerals and millions of hectares of the best farming land in the world? No? It will all go to Americans who are already raking in billions in natural gas and military equipment contracts, as well as profiting geopolitically from the immense weakening of one of their main rivals?

I told myself that I won't mention anuses anymore on this board but at the moment I really feel tempted to do so. :(

I commented the possible upcoming new deal between Kiev and Trump....which could end the war!

That would actually mean the opposite....


Na ja....Europe's industry and traders will not leave without profit, Torqi!

Rebuilding always is for the builders!

This war has been an epic win for both Ukraine and Russia.

We've killed untold numbers of our men, destroyed cities and towns, and now hate each other quite deeply.

Also, we are competing with each other on who will pay more reparations to America for this inter-Slavic massacre.

Zelensky is thinking about how he wants to respond to the $500B offer.

Putin sent his men to Riyadh, that pitched Trump on jointly developing the Russian Arctic.

Slavs kill each other - America profits. Nothing much has changed.


Ok I understand now, but how does that prevent "defeat"? Trump wants the money in exchange for nothing. He's not promising them any help. He just wants his cash.

No russian victory parade in Kiev? :)


Nah....that would be hardly a deal. At least no deal Kiev would subscribe to....so they must be getting something big out of it, that can only mean an end of this war!

The Americans are saying that the very fact they own so much in Ukraine, will be protection enough.

If you don't believe me - read about it.

Me and you - we know this is a bullsh*t position. Same as "two countries with McDonald's will never attack each other".

We Russians squeezed the Americans out of something like $300 billion worth of assets in Russia, after you and they robbed us first.

Did America nuke us? Did US GIs arrive in Moscow? Did America do anything at all?

It's possible to take America's sh*t, without them doing anything in response. If they are afraid of you.

Do you think they will fight us, if we take their precious rare earths in Ukraine? They'll write it off and forget about it.

"Easy come, easy go".

How will a deal between Kiev and Washington end the war if Russia is not involved in it? And if Russia is involved it means that Ukraine will pay a dear price not only to Americans (by becoming basically their economic colony) but also to Russians with land and political concessions (no NATO for them, and it looks like their EU membership will be blocked by Hungary).

F*ck... my love for Ukraine is somewhat limited, to put it mildly, but I feel kinda sorry for them. They are being raped by their "allies" like Poland once was.


So we will profit on Ukrainians as well? Where will they get all the money from? To pay the US, to pay Russia, to pay the EU. Why do I feel like a scoundrel at the moment?


Kurwa... *go back to PF, I thought... it will cheer you up, I tought* ... :(

Maybe it is, this time. Trump is the unknown card here in this game!

All known sureties and rules don't apply anymore....if Selensky now agrees to that deal, and if Kiev gives their official nod come friday....well, everything is possible. Lets see what happens....


You can survive it as a country....lotsa countries started new from total destruction. And for Ukraine that would mean they still HAVE a country!

I mean, you gotta admire them somewhat.

We're killing each other, but both of us have to pay reparations to them. Quite a nice deal.

In WW2 they refused to help Britain, until Britain transferred a bunch of naval bases in the Atlantic and Pacific in exchange for a few dozen rusty destroyers.

Roosevelt did not even feel bad doing it, because just like Trump he needed to show his members of Congress and his population that he extracted some kind of "win" in exchange for plunging America into war.

Never mind that London got destroyed in the Blitz, and there was no never so much as a single grenade exploded in New York.

Russia loses, Ukraine loses, but America wins. All is well in the universe.

Bs. Russia`s loss is Ukraine`s victory. Ha!!!

If only it were so simple.

The Finland scenario, you mean? Though in comparison I'd say Finland paid a lower price for their freedom in WW2.


If 'admiration' is the word we want... but yes, somehow they always end up as winners.


... as a little bird told me. :(

That Admin-fix worked....I can write normally again....so...the universe could be worse :)

'night all *waves*

I don't know, that is your problem. Also, I don't think Poland will earn much if anything on Ukraine and that is a real problem.
As for what the US gonna do, we will see sooner or later, so far those are only speculations and propaganda flying about.
---

You are easily persuaded by somebody's narrative and I don't deny that Bobko's narratives are quite convincing but still, you need to remember those are nothing more than a narrative of the opposite side.

No, it isn`t. For Our and Your Freedom - recall this old Polish saying and understand at last it doesn`t promise monetary gratification.

A Nice slogan, gives a bust of morale for the Polish side and aims at getting help from others. However, it doesn't work because politics and the world don't run on slogans.