Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 20

Precisely.

If someone wants Russians to remain poor serfs and cannon fodder, then such person should definitely support Putin.

He supports the democrats... but as Polish Foreign Minister he should only support Poland's interests.

I would love a democratic Russia but I just can't see a path to get there. It will remain North Nigeria until there are enough honest people to form local governments and work in bureaucracy.

The only way to get ahead in NN or even have a moderate life, is to steal or turn a blind eye to stealing. That has got worse under Putler, not better, so a democratic transformation would be harder than it was in 1991 when there were still some idealists and true patriots.

I don't know how many Russians you know personally and if they are indeed all thiefs, but those that I know do not fit your description; like my old mate - a dentist from Klin (Moscow Oblast) - who owes everything he has to his hard and honest work. Or take even Bobko and Velund here - do they have to steal and cheat to have a decent life?

Keep it real, Neufi. Don't let the hatred get the better of you.

Well, wealth does not protect from being russian. 😀

Torq, I have been many times but have lost contact with people who are still living there.

Fair play to your dentist friend - it's a good profession, but does he for example have special prices for local bigwigs ? pay bribes to get his equipment through customs ? A backhander to get the electric turned on in his surgery ? The kind of stuff that was common in Poland maybe 25 years ago but still a part of life in NN

Participatory democracy requires a level of personal civic engagement that russians simply don't have as a society. People used to talk about the 'democracy threshhold'. A society has to have a certain level of income/education to be able to handle democracy. Extremely poor and/or uneducated people tend to make terrible choices at the ballot box.

Poland in the early 1990s didn't meet the income level but was saved by the educational level of the country.

There's also an intangible... that might be called 'civic engagement'... (the idea that citizens and government have rights and responsibilities toward each other).

Poland is only developing something like that now (previously the church helped guarantee some level of civic order so that Poland never really had the mafia wars that plagued former soviet countries).

Put 'em all together and russia is generally too poor and there's no idea of civic engagement so they're incapable of even understanding the idea of democracy, let alone take part in one.

Even South Korea and Taiwan took _decades_ to develop some kind of civic engagement (and SKorea isn't all the way there yet).

@Paulina
Dual citizen sweet heart.

@cms neuf
Elon Musk is not the American government. He owns Starlink. Anyone thinking he cares about 50 million from Poland cent see that being the richest man on earth or one of the richest, gives him the ability to not gaf.

Now Trumps demands are becoming clearer. No more money or weapons until the mineral deal is done, elections are agreed to, or Z steps down. That is called democracy for all the democracy defenders. Free elections, nearly a year over due will either be a part of the deal, or Ukraine will be on its own. Given the developments in Kursk with Russia surrounding Ukraine, Ukraine cannot survive without the US intelligence, money and weapons. Looking pretty good for thei war to be over by the end of June as I predicted.

constitution be damned? The call for elections is a russian psyop so they can say ukrainians don't respect their constitution why should russia?


then why does he take it at all? I'm sure Poland could find better use for it than paying the richest man in the world...

He certainly is the American govt - he sends emails threatening to fire govt employees, takes part in cabinet meetings and feels secure enough to turn up in Golden Cows office and not take his hat off.

In normal times he would have had to mothball his assets while he serves. But the rules don't apply to him because he has corrupted Golden Cow

If 50m is nothing to him then as a Polish taxpayer he can send 2 zloty back to me

So you are an American paying taxes in Poland too ?
Does that allow you to speak for Poland ?

He's a brit pretending to be polish because he met a country girl at the go-go club.

Hard to know why he doesn't have to put his assets into a blind trust like a lot of countries insist.


Not his call, and of course the Ukrainian constitution is clear on the issue.

Why would President Zelenskyy step down? He is a popular leader and has always acted correctly.

Perhaps Agent Krasnov wants a r*SSian puppet. He won't get one, and he won't get the Nobel he craves. President Zelenskyy is the prime candidate for that.


He is a tacky imitation of a Bond villain. And yes, he and Thiel pull President Vance's strings while the orange psycho mouths off at people on their instruction.

You mean like jon, Lazarus, cms, Feniks, maf, Barns, you and the rest of the non Poles here speaking for Poland ?
This is why jon refuses to put the flag of what country that we are from besides our profile
That would let the authoritative ego air out of some of you wouldn't it. Hoot !

Polish citizen and I will be casting my vote in the Pres Elections :)

And it won't be for the party that said our foreign minister should suck up the insults of a childish drug addict or crawl up to Little Marco to say thank you

If Musk had stepped away from his business he might be better off. after calling Carlos Slim a crook he just lost another 22bn of business. I admire you for hanging tough with your million plus Tesla holding JR and you are still up for the last 6 months but it's going to be a long escalator ride down - the people who can afford his cars now wouldn't be seen dead in one

If Fuhrer Trump abandoned Ukraine.

Where is the written treaty stating a military alliance between Ukraine and USA?

Surely Biden didin't forget to sign it to prevent this very thing occuring?

Native ?

Where do you get your information from, son or are you just throwing more diminishing b.s. out there to see if I will bite ?
Certainly not from my financial advisor who suggested that I dump most of that for tax purposes at the end of the year but then again I really don't share my personal business with jealous Dandies fishing for it like you are.

His investors are not happy with him to say the least

You are singing to the choir as I have repeatedly posted from the get go that they were a horrible investment.
The people that bought one can't get squat on a trade in and nobody wants a used one.
Told ya so two years ago.
Good old American made Jeep is the way to go now in my opinion.

No. Hw wants an assfucking cuntdodger. You.

And you claim you have a functioning brain, not infected by woke virus,Is that right?

Hey, moron, even a "written treaty" is a not a suicide pact.

If Russia invaded Estonia, the US has every right to tell Estonia to go to hell or call 800-FVCK-OFF and file a complaint against both Russia and the US.

Would you like to die for freedom and democracy in Estonia? If so, don't forget to take the assfucker and cymes with you.

That "moron", btw, is for "Fuhrer" and it's going to get a lot worse, you POS...

I doubt it. Russia is no longer a communist country.


It wasn't so much the educational level as different traditions. Poland had the second modern written constitution in the world (and the first in Europe), and the memory of Golden Freedom was cherished and preserved (albeit in a too idealised and romanticised form) throughout the partitions and the communist period. We have always seen ourselves as a Western, Latin civilization country, so when the communist system collapsed, we knew exactly where we wanted to go and who we wanted to be. Russians... probably not so much.

But still, despite different traditions from ours Russians are, by and large, European people (as much as we like to joke about wild Asia, Mongol hordes etc.), so I can't see why they shouldn't - under right government - adapt to and thrive in a properly democratic environment.

I fill Ukrainian's pain and wish them well; as for Z, I do not cry for his self-inflicted troubles; first of al,l there is a thing called etiquette and diplomatic behavior which does not allow showing disrespect for the head of the host country,by dressing like a slob , especially if you seeking financial help, you don't defiantly fold your hand over your chest, don't roll your eyes, tell your host how he should think, and many more gaffes. I fill sorry for suffering Ukraninas, the devastation of their country
killing of the innocent in the senseless fratricide.and for what, like Russia doesn't have enough land.?

It's not about the land. It's about NATO.

Putin said it 1756 times.

The 'Trumpists for Manners' movement is truly inspiring. Next, they'll be demanding Putin use the correct salad fork while committing war crimes. xD

Seriously, it is hilarious how the same folks who spent years cheering for a guy who eats steak well-done with ketchup, and brags about grabbing women, suddenly became Miss Manners the moment Zelensky showed up without a tuxedo. The cognitive dissonance must be exhausting.

*galactic eye roll*

The way Zelenskyy dresses is fine with the King of effin' England... but Trump is suddenly Miss Manners?

As for manners. I'm waiting for Trump to speak 1/10 as aggressively to russia and/or china as he does to allies....

Why is he such a quivering wimp vis a vis putin and xi?

Kania - you misunderstand.

You know Russia very well, but in some key respects you still maintain large blind spots.

Level of wealth, intelligence, degree of exposure to travel - do not change how a Russian sees his ruler.

You had Nobel laureates acting as apologists for Stalin. You had people from whom the Russian government stole their children and their life - singing them praises.

This is what the Jewish oligarchs that challenged Putin in the early 2000s did not understand. A Jewish oligarch, however competent, however in love with Russia - cannot even come close to power in Russia, let alone be able to influence it. They paid dearly for their misjudgments.

Power in Russia is sacral and mystical. It whispers to you from the darkness.

What the Jewish liberalizers did not understand is that the Russian worships the throne. The Russian understands that when you are before the Imperator - the only correct position is on your knees.

The ruler is God and Father. He protects, and he feeds. He rights injustice, and punishes evildoers.

Putin being where he is is extremely rational, and extremely predictable.

You need to study Russia more.

Shorter Bobko "Ooga booga boogah!"

The Russian state - though rusty or rotten in places - has a 1,200 year history. It has some "turns" and some "flexes" that can surprise even you spring chickens.

It is much older than your American institutions, and has survived the likes of the Horde and Napoleon.

The Russian throne has a great history - and this is why it evokes piety and reverence from its subjects. Regardless of status.

No, Muscovy originated much later than Kyiv Rus aka today`s Ukraine. Stop manipulating.

hahahaha