Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 29

I was in the group which already on 24th February '22 prepared blue-and-yellow rosettes and handed them out to their families, friends, and colleagues at work to wear. I was in the group who supported Ukrainian refugees financially, made them feel welcome, and was ready to forget the difficult history between our nations for the sake of better future for us and our children. Aaaah, the beautiful beginnings...

... later, unfortunately, the actions of Zelensky put a bit of a strain on the initial enthusiasm. Enough to bring the number down from 94% in March 2022 to 48% in October 2025. The Ukrainian agency that estimates the number at 50% in August 2026 might be a tad too optimistic.


I don't care what they use the word for. I use it for what it is - a genocidal, bloodthirsty, ethnonationalist ideology.


You overestimate Russian propagandists. As long as people like you whitewash everything that Ukraine does and blame everything on "Putin's propaganda", the problems will only deepen.

russia planned to kill a US citizen of Ukrainian origin in Poland....

x.com/nexta_tv/status/2088248469941113057

But sure, a group that hasn't existed in decades (and is primarily associated with anit-soviet rather than anti-Polish sentiment) is the real threat....

... but is still hero-worshipped in Ukraine.


Oh, really? How many Soviets did they kill in combat and how many Polish civilians did they murder? Compare the two numbers and stop talking nonsense.

As anti-soviets (remember they sometimes worked with AK)


Who was responsible for more deaths of Poles, oun/upa/bandera or Stalin (still worshipped in russia)?

Tell this to guys who make "Volyn Pride" patches...

facebook.com/61578894123458/posts/volyn-pride-proud-of-our-history-thats-the-slogan-on-a-new-patch-released-by-rei/122171430530963137/


Hm... it's quite close between the sickf*cks in the WW2 period: OUN/UPA - around 120,000, Stalinist USSR according to different estimates 100-150,000. Very close.

If we included the broader pre-war persecutions of Polish-origin Soviet citizens (the so-called 'NKVD action'), Stalinist USSR would most likely emerge "victorious" in your strange competition, Maf.

I will tell you a secret though - being against worshipping genocidal UPA criminals doesn't mean supporting genocidal Stalinist criminals. Really. Go figure.

Quite. I doubt most people think of them.

The few people in PL who get worked up about it never mention that the organisation was founded to protect Ukrainians in Galicia from rapes and murders by Pilsudzki's legions.


The r*SSia propagandists who like to mention Bandera probably don't even know that he was imprisoned in a concentration camp in Germany at the time of the Cilyn massacres.

Most people however don't get worked up about it.

There are bigger things at stake now than ruminating about the past.

Oh, yes - the 'Bandera wasn't there' argument. Guess what, Hitler was never at Auschwitz when genocide was taking place there. He must have been innocent then.


For the benefit of 6th graders reading this (and jon357): OUN was founded in 1929, UPA in 1942. Piłsudski's Polish legions were a WW1 formation, disbanded in 1918.

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legiony_Polskie_(1914%E2%80%931918)


Oh, sure. We were just discussing the statistics and PR campaigns. You know - how 94% can fall to 48% by a "skillful" patriotic PR campaign, and the new PR campaign that Zelensky's government is preparing. Hopefully it will be more successful than the previous one. *galactic eyeroll*

Torqi, I have not so much insight in the polish-ukrainian squabbles, but why was Bandera seemingly so successful with his Ukrainians? Did they also have grievances against Poles in the past? And if yes which ones?

When did this all start? (Just some roundabouts)....

He want there. The difference was that Hitler was in control. Not in a concentration camp.


And what did those thugs do afterwards in the part of Ukraine that was temporarily Polish territory ? Are you trying to deny the murders, rapes and forced evictions?


See above. It was about protecting themselves from people who were killing them.


Yes sure. The illegal and unprovoked invasion of Ukraine by the worst country in the world.

When it's all over and r*SSia is defeated, find someone with as extreme nationalistic views as yours, perhaps a former skinhead, and argue it out with them.

Most people don't get so worked up.

Oh, and why was Hitler so successful with the Germans? Or Mussolini with Italians? Pavelić with Croatins, Antonescu with Romanns or even Pilsuski with Poles?

It was a time of fuehrers, bigger and smaller... in many European countries. Nations were fighting for their places under the Sun and strong leaders were admired and supported. The question is, which of those leaders considered mass-murder of civilians and genocide to be legitimate means to their political ends. Bandera, alas, was one of them.


Yes, they did, and some of them where legitimate ones (especially during the interwar period).


It depends. Some people would point to the First Republic, when Ukrainian Cossacks did not have equal political recognition and power as Polish and Lithuanian nobles did. That's when the first grievances were born but I would be reluctant to go that far. It wasn't a period of nations and talking about Ukrainian national identity back then would be premature.

If I were to say when the real hatred started, then it would be much later - when Poland was under partitions and Austrians needed a useful tool against Polish struggle for independence. Then they started investing heavily in creating Ukrainian national identity, and incite and antagonize them against Poles (and partly Russians as well). The modern Ukrainian national identity is, by and large, an Austro-Hungarian construct.

Aren't there threads to discuss Polish/Ukrainian history?

This thread is about the illegal and unprovoked invasion of Ukraine by the worst country in the world. And how Poland is helping to defeat the orcs.

Quite right. Let's leave history for history threads.

Thats exactly why I ask....Hitler needed and used the many grievances in the people for his rise to power...its the life blood of all revanchists, you know?

But Jon is right, its a topic for the history thread...

Yes.

And excellent that Poland may send missiles defence here. It's needed and it's important.

And Putler's been sending drones over the Baltics now.

In a VIP cottage for "very special" prisoners, convenient for Nazi special services officers to work for.

Poland stands up when the rest of "The West" stand and watch...... with Poland supporting Ukraine. Russia is fvcked part 230.



Poland is Russia's main enemy now..... Russia is fvcked part 231.

@Velund
Don't be fvcking sily. Nobody believes your lies.


Not all of the west.

Not to mention Romania

x.com/InsiderGeo/status/2088342131442167938

x.com/InsiderGeo/status/2087903751705080039

Kacapophiles are more interested in things that happened 80 years ago rather than what's going on now...

It is Google AI assistent lies... ;)

Stepan Bandera was held in the Zellenbau (the special bunker or cell block) of the Sachsenhausen concentration camp from early 1942 until September 1944. As a high-profile political prisoner (Ehrenhäftling) kept apart from the general camp population, he experienced significantly privileged conditions compared to ordinary prisoners.

Conditions in the Zellenbau Block

Accommodations: Occupied a relatively comfortable, isolated two-room space that included a bedroom furnished similarly to a normal apartment and a small receiving/guest area.

Exemptions: Freed from wearing standard prisoner uniforms and did not perform forced labor.

Subsistence & Perks: Allowed to eat meals from the SS dining room and permitted communication or contact with the outside world, including his wife.

Context: He was interned there after refusing to withdraw the 1941 Declaration of Restoration of Ukrainian Statehood in Lviv, held by the Nazi regime as leverage or a potential future asset until his release in late 1944.