IF EU let refugees to Europe

I wonder if there have been any studies on Arab Muslim assimilation in western counrties. I'm sure assimilation does occur but it is probably slower than with European immigrants. Owing to the proselytic nature of Islam (one true faith must be spread worldwide), the motivation to assimilate is much smaller.

Not really, there's no assimilation or integration without out-marriage (marying into another group) especially of women - since women usually go to live with their husbands. The Islamic prohibition against female muslims marrying non-muslim men (which is enforced with very credible threats of violence) means that muslims by and large don't out-marry even if a few local women marry muslim men they end up joining the muslim community rather than bringing their husbands into the mainstream.

In practical, non-religious terms this means that all else being equal the share of muslims in any society will increase:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interfaith_marriage_in_Islam#Marriage_of_Muslim_women_to_non-Muslim_men

Of course this is a tiny minortiy, but what about Western-educated Muslims? And the children of Muslims born in the new country? In the States at least amongst the Muslim community one encounters vraying degrees of assimilation - not all are euqally fervent abotu their religion.

I'm familiar with Bosnia, where interfaith marriages are nothing unusual. This is what makes me wonder if Islam isn't a red herring - the Bosnian interpretation seems to be successful, after all.

I'm thinking specifically about how many Indians find it very difficult to integrate into European society - yet most of them aren't Muslim.

They're liable to not spend all their time around other muslims. Though with multi-culti that can be hard. I've read that it's easier tfor muslims to neglect their faith in their home countries than in western europe where the diversity bullies hold sway.

Almost all of the muslims I've met in Poland are wonderful people, but they're highly educated and secularly oriented (even the believers respect secular authority) and have no desire to spread their faith and they have few illusions about the problems in their home cultures (they despair for the backwardness that tends to hold sway).

The people trudging across Turkey and Europe to get to Germany are mostly not so highly educated and secularly oriented.....


Until the 1990s Bosnians were nominal muslims (like Turks along the Aegean coast who in many ways are closer to Greeks or Italians than Kurds or Arabs on socio-cultural terms) but very lax in interpretation and practice (catholics and orthodox were similarly not very devout). The key factor seems to be overall role of religion in society - the higher, more central a role it has the more backwardness and the firmer the dividing lines between groups.

Some degree of religion seems to be necessary for most societies to function (enlightened post-religious societies in western europe are all facing demographic collapse) but too much is also very, very dangerous.

Isn't Turkey an example of a westernized Muslim country? Does Sharia told any sway there?

good news from some of main transit countries for refugees

Macedonia starts building fence along border with Greece


Serbia now letting only "refugees from war" cross border

Source: B92 Thursday, November 19, 2015 | 11:48



"About 1,000 migrants have not been allowed to enter Serbia"

Turkey is very large and it's hard to make generalizations about the whole county. In general, the western Aegean cost (the only part I've been in) is very modern and very secular (mostly empty mosques most people ignore the daily calls to prayer). You see some signs of faith (men with prayer beads some women with scarfs with or without long bulky coats) but it's not in your face at all and many turks (of all ages) look as cosmopolitan and chic as Italians. It also has very low fertility rates (a frequent subject of rants from Erdogan). Alcohol is on sale openly (it's a big wine producer and they dont export it much) though almost no one drinks in public.

Further east and in villages people are a lot more religious and conservative. The Kurds are especially religious and conservative and are out-breeding the Turks.

Erdogan's party began as something vaguely similar to a Turkish cross between PiS and ZChN and in early days gained credibility by governing well and less corruptly than predecessors.

In recent years he's clearly gone round the bend and is obsessed with trying to re-create a kind of Ottoman presence.
And a lot of signs of corruption have emerged but he remains personally popular and campaigns relentlessly for more religious expression (raising taxes on alcohol to absurd levels, encourage women to wear hijab, teaching the ottoman/arabic alphabet in school etc).

Mostly ethnic Turks dont' emigrate that much because for many there, life in Turkey is pretty pleasant. Overall, in terms of social development, education and economics the urban western Turkish republic is about as good as the Muslim world gets (though the countryside and Kurdish areas lag). Most of the "turks" in Germany are Kurds (recently in Berlin I was eating at a Turkish ... bar (between a kebab stand and sitdown restaurant) and you could hear Turkish and Kurdish, in addition to German). They also sold beer (including Efez, a Turkish brand, and Lech!)

Technically Turkey has mostly secular laws but Erdogan is constantly pressin more religious intrusion into the courts).

@mafketis, you clearly know what you are talking about.


I personally wouldn't make such a general statement (for fear of being accused of generalizing), at the same time I cannot say you are wrong, especially considering that many (not all, but probably most) refugees comes from poorer areas where religion has a stronger social role. In Syria (like many other places) income and education on the one hand, and religiousness on the other, tend to be inversely correlated.

@Pam: You really think you are something don't you Pam.
Your ignorance gives a new meaning to the word dumb.
First Muslim and islam and Islamic is not just a European problem.
Second you are so gullible to the islam teachings you really should listen instead of talking like an authority that you know nothing about.
"Pam, did you ever hear the word 'al-taqiyya'?"
Obviously not so look it up.
In a nutshell, al-taqiyya means it is acceptable for a Muslim to lie when it is in the best interest of his religion for him to do so.

Or for that matter sacrifice their own life in the name of Allah (We even have some members on this forum from Muslim countries that deny that they are Muslim)

Indeed, their god will not judge them harshly, or at all, when a Muslim lies or commits suicide in a cause which is going to benefit the faith. Indeed, a lie in the defense of Islam is approved of and even recommended in their "holy" books like the Koran.

So, when the Ayatollah made his statement about what the chant "Death to infidels !" means, he may be telling the truth and he may be lying through his teeth. Without looking into his heart, I have no way of knowing.

What a difference there is between the two faiths of Christianity vs. Islam.
When Polish immigrants came to America they did not and do not demand to change the laws or culture of America, the Muslims do.
So before you go running your self authoritive mouth I suggest you study up on islam and the Cow a tad Toots.


So now Johnny consorts have turned into "they" all in one sentence.
Maybe if you let the meaning of al-taqiyya sink in you may understand why "WE" put all Muslim into one basket.
Time for you to wake up and smell the truth.

Off to fun in the sun while you stew in your frustrations.

I, Johnny, I.

Johhny al-taqiyya The key to understanding the Quran and how it is portrayed to non-beleivers , I wish more people would understand this along with the rule of Abrogation.

Why is my name being mentioned here when you are replying to InPolska's posts?

@Chemikiem

Saw that, too. I think he loves you... :)

Naw, just a typo.


Sorry Pam's, I fixed it just for you.
It should have read as follows.


Yeah and you've done this and you do that and you've lived in twenty countries and you are more of an authority just ask you. lol

Your I me I me is really getting old here. Like I said before, I suppose your socks don't stink either.
You really think you are something don't you Frenchie.
Your ignorance gives a new meaning to the word dumb.
First Muslim and islam and Islamic is not just a European problem.
Second you are so gullible to the islam teachings you really should listen instead of talking like an authority that you know nothing about.
"Frenchie, have you ever heard the word 'al-taqiyya'?"
Obviously not so look it up.
In a nutshell, al-taqiyya means it is acceptable for a Muslim to lie when it is in the best interest of his religion for him to do so.

Or for that matter sacrifice their own life in the name of Allah (We even have some members on this forum from Muslim countries that deny that they are Muslim)

Indeed, their god will not judge them harshly, or at all, when a Muslim lies or commits suicide in a cause which is going to benefit the faith. Indeed, a lie in the defense of Islam is approved of and even recommended in their "holy" books like the Koran.

So, when the Ayatollah made his statement about what the chant "Death to infidels !" means, he may be telling the truth and he may be lying through his teeth. Without looking into his heart, I have no way of knowing.

What a difference there is between the two faiths of Christianity vs. Islam.
When Polish immigrants came to America they did not and do not demand to change the laws or culture of America, the Muslims do.
So before you go running your self authoritive mouth again I suggest you study up on islam and the Cow a tad Toots.

I just find it remarkable that so many liberal lefties are so pro allowing immigrants in, when so many (the majority) are Muslim.

I also find it odd to see them defending Islam and crying foul over Islamophobia everywhere when the very religion they are defending does not support the liberal views they hold.

Of course these same liberals have no problem voicing their anger and disapproval at the intolerant Church and Christian religion. It's a complete oxymoron.

According to what I got from today's media, A. Merkel seems to continue her madness and therefore quotas should be maintained....

IMO, the West needs to send troops onto the ground and physically eradicate ISIS in the Middle East. Bombing sand won't work, this is a n enemy that doesn't care about holding down one physical spot. ISIS is about spreading their influence globally.

ISIS is already in Europe. The only way to defeat an ideology is to physically remove it's followers. This is the first time the entire Planet is against one single enemy since atleast the end of WW2

not gonna help much.they just scatter(join"moderates"),need sanction against turkey and SA.stop them terrorist funding and indoctrinating people.

According to today's news, Angela seems to continue her insane goal and therefore quotas ought to be maintained....

Absolutely. Do you agree with the Nazi/Israeli concept of collective punishment Inpolska?

Denmark has withdrawn its pledge to take 1,000 refugees. No, Copenhagen is not reneging. The Merkel clique that invited 800,000 refugees to Germany this year alone and then tried to pawn them off on otehr countries was supposed to have screening stations set up in Greece and Turkey to sift out opportunistic economic migrants so only true refugees could get through. It was the Merkel gang that didn't keep their end of the bargain. Instead, the Balkan states are building increasingly impenetrable barriers patrolled by armed troops along their frontiers and still the refugee/migrant river continues to flow. Everything points to the likelihood that the crisis will not only spell the demise of Schengen or the EU, but of Europe as we know it.

Bear in mind Polonius that it's possible that Germany herself will get kicked out of Schengen by the others. There's no reason why the V4+Baltic countries can't create a common free travel area along with a few others such as Slovenia - the German inability to control her borders doesn't mean that we all have to suffer too.

Various options are possible at this point. My hunch is that after several hundred thousand more newcomers (I don't feel like constantly repeating the refugee/migrant formulation), numerous Muslim refugee camps and ghetto/no-go zones will appear around the country. As a result, Germany's overstrained welfare and education system will begin bursting at the seams and there may well be growing grass-roots calls to ship them back where they came from. Obviously if that is attempted, most newcomers will resist and rioting is likely to ensue. It's a lose-lose situation and Merkel is likely to become the Schwartzcharakter of the 21st century.

to put cross on myself and to offer prayers to both- to Christ and to Svetovid, spot this >>> imagine integration of these people and their mind set in Polish society, if they come to Poland >>>

Migrants sow up lips in protest at Macedonian border


These people gave their lips for Merkel`s promises.

Spiritus.

I have lived in Gdynia for two years. I am not trained in detective work. In two minutes I can learn if you have ever been here. In the space of just two years I practically know every locale in Gdynia (I walk a lot)

Of course the "commission" could easily work out who Ahmed really is, even without the regimes assistance. Or at least to ascertain if he is indeed in fear of his life or his home was bombed and his wife is dead etc etc....

Some people really need to have a look at the streets of devastation in Syria. It's called civil war, and we all backed Assad and his evil da, as those Russian fools are so doing today.

Well you need people qualified in the right types of Arabic for that (a few so they can cross check each other). The Pakistanis and Afghans and Albanians can be weeded out right away as they won't know Arabic at all (or will be easily spotted as non-natives) but separating out the Arabic speakers will require interpreters who know Syrian (and maybe some other types of) Arabic.

I Have bad news for you: At Middle East, everyone is a tyrant. But still people have their passports. Unless themselves destroy it to claim asylum in Europe.

You do realize that a large percentage of the group going to Germany are Albanians, don't you?

Facts that are well known to those closely following this issue are often unknown to those who only hear about it occasionally from major media.

Just as you said, Albania has a lot of tourism potential, is a prospective EU member and has been the recipient of a lot of EU aid over the last few years. There's no reason for the EU to accept "refugees" from Albania (well technically they're mostly from Kosovo but that doesn't change anything).

They tend to be overrepresented in riots in asylum centers (getting into it with Moroccans recently in Dresden in a dust up that required over 40 police officers to calm down).

freiepresse.de/NACHRICHTEN/SACHSEN/Schlaegerei-in-Dresdner-Asylbewerberunterkunft-artikel9363044.php
(nb the page is a collection of stories about riots in German Asylum centers).

And... while we're at it, Morocco is certainly one of the better run Arab societies. There's no real reason for Moroccans to be considered refugees either.

The Left Wing Press, you mean, right?

The alikes of BBC, CNN and Le Monde, the same press that support the Islamization project of Angela Merkel.