Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 2

You were there first with your Red Army. Long 20 years before German Nazi. You should be glad you are better at something.


The point is even if disagree with Russians here. I can understand their stance.
All those petty trolling apologist for Russia coming mostly from Yanks( at least from no Russians) rubs me the wrong way. What is wrong with those people?

If only you had also learnt from us that such behaviour is neither profitable nor well-looked upon in the long run. This war is a stain upon Russians for generations.


Perhaps it used to be, but what the genocide commited in Ukraine seems rather professional and organized. Deporting people, forced adoptions, starvation as a weapon of war, random and targeted murder of civilians. Besides, we know from Katyn that the Russians are well used to destroying a nation's intelligencia.

Its glad to me to see NATO and EU reprimanded by Russia. Very glad.

It seems entirely organised and planned, as does their scorched earth policy and ethnic cleansing.


Agreed.


If it were the government of UK or Poland committing genocide, carrying out mass executions, mass rape (occluding of children) and forced abductions of civilians here in Europe (which would admittedly be very hard to imagine) would we go online to a forum relating to a neighbouring country to the place we were doing that and write thousands of words trying to justify that? I wouldn't

...who remember how the French poodles and the Stiff Lips dragged the US into two already. This one is all yours.
So, instead of posting crap here, go to Ukraine to fight the barbarians all by yourself. You do have at least one good eye and two hands?

There...You are good to go...Send me a postcard when you and that other hero get there.

Quoting:

'Sent to certain death': Why growing numbers of Ukrainian servicemen are refusing to fight on the Donbass frontlines
Many Ukrainian soldiers are terrified by combat conditions and are asking for help on social media

And the comments:

They know that it is an exercise in futility! Why choose to die for the Globalists?

Poor Ukrainian men don't know that their wives, sisters, and daughters are all getting banged by western men and they have no intention of coming back. They are all dying for Soros and nothing else.

They will have died for nothing.

Yeap, Z-P=0, and dying for 0 is beyond stupid. See Crimea.

youtu.be/h9RwYPsVpfM

I never thought that oppressed people can fake happiness so well...

It is about Russia and Russians they love to feel important no matter the reson.


Look that was a rethorical question. I know there are in Yankee land lots of morons who know nothing and understand even less. they have what is left from their freedom of speech right and they missuse it by talking rubbish and are even proud of it.

Then there are trolls.

YouTube tripe.


The crazy ones. Then they whine when they get sued and lose everything like that Alex Jones guy.

There are a few so-called 'independent journalists' (all of them with links to r*ssia Today or Sputnik News) who are likely to be facing lengthy prison sentences in various countries for "interviewing' prisoners of war under duress.

I suppose they could always stay in r*ssia.

Did you watch it?

@Novichok

The Ukrainians are suffering.
That is a given.
But they have a reason to fight.
The young Russian cannon fodder dont.
Which is why Ukraine will win this war.
And before you ask, because I know that you will.
A Ukrainian win is preserving their country with only limited and minor losses to the territory they had before the Russian invasion.
Anything more would be a major victory

...for zero. As in Z-P=0. Sad, isn't it, that some hotheads can actually leave the safety of their homes and risk their lives for sh*it.

Or do they fight for Zemocracy? Are you planning to join them?

Thinking differently isn't crazy. That's how we progress by thinking differently.

Novichok and Dirk Diggler aren't yanks they're Polish Expats. They reflect Polish thinking; Poles over think everything until black becomes white and white becomes black. And that's why Poland was partitioned. And why the partition lasted as long as it did.

Don't ever tell me what I am or what I am not. Try to concentrate on my posts.

No one's reacting to Ukraine officially receiving EU candidate status (along with Moldova)?

I like this take:

twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1540068776443609089

Turkey ie since 1999 officially EU candidate.

@Chicagoan
I dont think it is over thinking at all. I think it is simply a few people who are so mentally challenged that they can not possibly see anything other than their own views as being the "right" views that everyone should have. We have a young alleged college grad who is also clearly a liar, and an old brainwashed Russian worshipper because it fits his personal narrative. Thats all really. The rest are either Russian, or non Poles who are delusional.

While I do not agree with the Russians who post here, I do understand their patriotism for their country. I respect it, but do not support their efforts. While their arguments are tedious and repetitive most of the time they try to make sense of what Russia and Putin are doing while walking the party line. These other idiots who are not Russian though, who try to spout an opinion like they know it all, are a problem.

IF the French in WW2 had found people spouting their opinions in France to support the Nazi's I wonder what would have happened? Oh wait, we know what happened, they were outed and many of them disappeared. Nazi sympathizers were dealt with and this is exactly what should happen to Russian sympathizers today. Especially those who are in the west and enjoying the western lifestyle that is provided to them by the efforts such as what is happening in Ukraine. These sympathizers should simply be found, and summarily deported to Poland where they allege to have come from or Russia so they can join the Russian effort personally.

I know that Australian Broadcasting Corporation only quoted Morawiecki out of all the EU leaders in their article, and since it's based off APP/Reuters that would have been the case worldwide. This aligns to what Morawiecki said that Poland is the leading proponent of Ukraine joining the EU and massive diplomatic effort was exerted on the hesitant in the EU Council to reach unanimity. Polska and Ukraine; Stronger together!

I think we probably owe Hungary and Bulgaria a favour now though.

French Foreign Legion lands in Estonia as a response to Russian provocations at Estonian border...

fakt.pl/polityka/francja-wyslala-na-estonie-spadochroniarzy-z-legii-cudzoziemskiej/rtp9nwq


Russia is neither collapsing (not immediately anyway) nor isolated (not completely anyway). The EU is suffering from the sanctions almost as much as Russia and the war is still in full swing. Also, there is a bigger risk of escalation at the moment (see FFL landing in Estonia and more weapons arriving in Ukraine).

OK. I am assuming that most sane people would rather avoid World War III. So where do we go from here?

Russia is not even willing to start peace talks, as far as I know, and the West will not give up on independent Ukraine. Does anyone see a plausible way out of it?

@GefreiterKania

Ukraine could still just lose, you know. By lose I mean accept Russia's demands.

Not everyone is on Poland and Lithuania's wavelength of "no negotiations with terrorists". Instead, Biden says "we must help the Ukrainians negotiate the best peace they can". Macron says, "no war has ever ended without diplomacy". That's likely why Biden sends only 4 HIMARS, and Macron sends just 6 CAESARS.

Though Ukraine's collapse will be sad, the West will still be able to look at itself in the mirror and say "we did all we could". Was this not the purpose, in the end, of the very strange visit by Draghi, Macron, and Scholz to Kiev? To say, "we won't send you enough weapons to win, but you are now able to tell your people you won EU candidacy when even Georgia did not"?

It was a transparent attempt to push Zelensky toward negotiations, by further building up his domestic political capital. He must surely be telling them for the past months - "if I concede territories to Putin my people will eat me". Now papa Scholz and Macron have partially solved his dilemma, by giving him a nice fat candy to stick in the mouth of his citizens, and hopefully shut them up if they don't like the idea of negotiations.

What's especially cynical is that everyone understands this candidacy is meaningless (ask Erdogan), but pretends anyway that it is the second coming of Jesus Christ to make a sh!t situation look better.

@Bobko
Biden announced yesterday 4 more HIMARS to Ukraine, and Germany now sending what was promised. Stop thinking Russia can or will win when they have already lost. Regardless of land conquests, Russia will be locked out of the west for decades now. The west will figure out how to deal with gas prices, they have before. Ukraine wont fall to Russia, Russia simply does not have enough forces to occupy Ukraine. The arrogance of Russia after accomplishing nothing so far is really funny.

@GefreiterKania
No one wants WW3, but if it comes it comes. No one is afraid of Russia and that what Russia does not understand France is a land of pu$$ies, Germany finally finding some balls, and Biden wont dictate how diplomacy goes. As it is now, there are enough weapons and ammunition for this war to go on to the end of the year. And the EU will not abandon Ukraine after this. So if there is war, there is war, everyone is preparing for it now.

The only way out of this is a clear defeat for one side or another. Either way, tensions will not abate for many years no matter who wins. If its Russia though, you can count on sanctions staying in place until they are so isolated they have no choice but to change. No western goods or opportunity for ten years or so should cause civil uprisings.

What are Russia's demands though? Demilitarization and denazification? Russia doesn't look like she's willing to start any peace negotiatons; I haven't heard about any such attempt anyway.


So, you think that what we discussed before - Russia getting some lands in the east/south and a smaller Ukraine being admitted to the EU - is a viable solution, right? But I am not sure if you're right about deliveries of weapons to Ukraine; even Germany starts sending heavy weapons now (those PzH 2000 howitzers have just arrived) and this might suggest a change of Europe's policy in this regard.


If it's meaningless, then it's not a "a nice fat candy" at all.


I know, you don't have to tell me that. No other country is spending such amounts of money on defense, compared to GDP, as Poland is at the moment.


So we better prepare for a long war then. Oh, well..

Demands are evolving. Today Lavrov said that if and when negotiations start, they will have to take into account "realities on the ground". I gather that's a pretty transparent way of saying that we get whatever we control at that point.

Demilitarization, to me, is meaningless if Ukraine can be pumped full of weapons again the minute hostilities stop. Denazification is stupid, but I'm sure they will extract some language from the Ukrainians which can be shown to especially Nazi-obsessed compatriots of mine that the "mission was accomplished". It may mean disbanding the volunteer battalions that got integrated into the AFU, or them writing in some language into their constitution which rules out equivalencies between USSR and Third Reich. Again, to me it's a bunch of hot air. Territories is what this is all about.


Strange. In the news I read it's the opposite. Lavrov complaining that the Ukrainians decided to leave negotiations in Turkey after getting some "assurances" of support from Johnson and Biden. The negotiations had been at some promising point apparently (Russia wasn't doing too hot at that point either). Officially, the Ukrainians have been saying - "no negotiations after Bucha", first. Then they said, "no more negotiations with orcs after the theater bombing in Mariupol". Finally, they did come back, but with some list of negotiation points that Russia doesn't even want to look at. Some sh!t about returning to Feb. 24 lines, and discussing special status for Donbass (and more or less surrendering Crimea). Who are they joking? That train has left the station long ago.


Podolyak, the advisor to Zelensky that covers this direction, has been saying they need at least a 1,000 heavy caliber guns. The numbers so far are something like 10% of that. PzH 2000 or Caesar, it doesn't equal 10x or 20x of a normal 155mm gun. It shoots maybe 2-3 rounds a minute more, is a little more mobile, and has some armor from light weapons. It's not some Wunderwaffe.

But, apart from Donbass and Crimea, you are controlling some lands at the moment with Ukrainian majority, lands on which Russia doesn't have any legitimate claim. Surely you can't expect Ukraine to just give them up?


Strange indeed. I bet media on both sides are distorting the real image of the conflict and ordinary people like you and I are getting only very limited information.


...is exaggerating, for obvious reasons, so the current numbers are probably closer to 20-25% of what Ukraine needs, and if Germany starts sending heavy weapons now, it means that there will definitely be more supplies coming. I understand that you would like to see a quick, clean victory for Russia, but it is very unlikely.

Little people like us will be the last to know what's actually going on at those talks. It's irritating to see them slapping each other high fives (true story), and cracking jokes (also true story) while sipping on Evian in 5-Star hotel lobbies. Seeing sleezeball Abramovich there, just completes the picture. I suppose that's diplomacy though.

*I wish that ape, Arakhamia would stop wearing a baseball cap to the negotiations. In general it would be nice if Ukrainians wore suits. BTW, this Arakhamia guy is from Sochi, and as recently as 2010s was adviser to a member of the Russian Duma. How the hell he ended up on the other side of the table I do not understand.

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Exactly.

And, yeah, the guy in the baseball cap does indeed look like pół dupy zza krzaka.

Where did you get this from? Donbass is also technically majority Ukrainian and only minority Russian (large minority however). The south was all either Turkish or wild praries, and not Ukrainian. All major cities are new Russian settlements. Odessa, Nikolayev, and Kherson were all founded by Prince Potemkin under Catherine as military outposts. Odessa has never had a "Ukrainian" flavor, but has always been its own thing. Nikolayev is the original home of the Black Sea fleet and a center of our historic shipbuilding industry. Kherson same story. Now Zaporozhye you could make some argument has ancient Cossack roots, but Cossacks as we well know are not an ethnicity. Regardless, they were Cossacks in Russian service.

We can even go as far up as Dnipropetrovsk and Krivot Rog and still be in firmly "Russian" lands. In the north east we also would like Kharkov and Sumy Oblasts, if not Chernigov and Kiev itself.

What we do not want is the Transcarparhians, Lvov, Zhytomyr, Volyn, Ternopol, Rovno, Vinnytsya, Ivano-Frankovsk, and all those other weird areas.


Head of Zelensky's party in parliament and third man in the country. :(((( Chief negotiator from their side. First rule of getting back territories should be - turn up in a good suit, and check your hat outside.

Unlike the fake and ghey Soviet monstrosity "kainingrad"

I'll believe Russian fairytales about historic lands when they give it up (preferably to Germany but Litwa and/or Poland would also work)

@Bobko

I am talking about the present situation - if a territory in question has Ukrainian majority, how can Russia expect Ukraine to give it up? It is all good and well to remember about Potemkin and Catherine the Great but it is all hardly relevant today, is it?

Take a look at that...

youtu.be/XrsC2Qrjf20

... and now imagine all countries wanting their old lands back. :-/

Not remotely relevant.

Two bits of good news from Ukraine this morning

A quisling official installed by the r*ssians in Kherson has been killed by a car bomb. Unfortunately he was the only victim. Hopefully many similar special operations will follow.

The orcs tried to booby trap a hospital in Ukraine (par for the course, perhaps they wanted to kill some nurses) however when they were setting it up, a goat from a nearby farm triggered the tripwire, the grenades went off and several orcs were horribly injured.

More of the same please.

How? Very easily, in fact. An expression comes to mind - "easy come, easy go". It's only been eight years after 2014, but Ukrainians now hate people from Donbass and Crimea more than they hate Russians proper. Great cohesion they have, Ukrainians, that can be washed away in a mere 8 years. They got these lands with the flourish of a pen (whether Lenin's, Stalin's or Kruschev's) - that's why they give it away easily too. Russia meanwhile has paid blood through a dozen wars to keep this area, and necessarily the motivation for us is higher.

If you listen to some real hardcore Ukrainian nationalists long enough, sooner or later they will start telling you that the only way for Ukraine to survive and mature as a "European" nation state is by cutting off all the vatniks and sovoks that live in the east. At this point I usually ask them if they are so immensely rich in land and people that they can cut off a million here, a million there, and it doesn't matter? Apparently, the answer is yes.