Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 2

...and the nuclear fallout would do the rest (of the world)....

USA had nukes. Russia didn't in beginning of the war. But you don't even need a huge war. Just drop tons and tons of weapons in regions which people hated Bolsheviks (like Poland) and they will give a lot of trouble to Bolsheviks. Then while they are focused in a multi frontal war, throw some tactical nukes into keypoints as soviets are ultra centralized.

Churchill said the same.


Nobody had nukes at the beginning of the war and there were only two experimental ones at the end. It would have taken some time to create a third.


That is just naive.

Russia is and will stay a huge market, the biggest in Europe, with lotsa profits to be made...it's naive to believe it will not be welcomed back again in the international community the moment they sort themselves out.

They they won't. Even a regime change is insufficient now.

And those who have traded most with them, especially arms, will lose out badly.

Well....Germany did alot worse and it was "back again" quite quickly!

Why do you believe Russia will be treated differently?

After a couple of decades, a big chunk of it a different country for 40 years and a permanently castrated army. Not that this thread is about germany. They are a minor player in this; it is about russia and Ukraine.

This is WW3 already. Do you think there won't be a new iron curtain?

No....there won't be....the "other side" is just Russia (Belorussia or Chechnia don't count, their leaders will probably fall with Putin). There is hardly an enemy bloc....

Does there need to be a 'bloc'?

Nazi Germany was defeated militarily, occupied and de-Nazified by occupying forces. The truth of what Nazi Germany did to others was shoved down Germans' throats, so to speak, by those who defeated them. It didn't happen to the Soviet Union and it won't happen to Russia.

So, the question is - is Russia capable of changing on it's own?

The "Iron Curtain" has split the world in two blocs....so yes. And this isn't even one bloc...it's mainly Putin alone! That ends with him!


Yeah...thats a problem!

Germany wasn't "liberated" either....no matter how colorful german politicians want to call the 8th of May, it was a sound defeat, not a liberation for most Germans.

That is something the Russians have to work on themselves...without "outside help"....and they have a problem with acknowledging their past failures and misdeeds.

Do leopards ever truly change their spots?

russia's behaviour has evolved into this over centuries. It even survived a huge revolution, the biggest revolution in history, it survived the biggest war in history and it survived the fall of the workers' state and its central/eastern European hegemony. Doubtless it will survive this in one form or another.

Oh please. You are really overestimating our influence here. Neither Germany nor Europe are responsible for this war. Russia became militarily powerful because it invested the surplus from its' ressource exports. If he had not sold it to Europe, he would have sold it elsewhere. Maybe with less profit overall, but that would not have mattered for Putin since he clearly did base his war plans on a realistic estimation of his strength.


Keep in mind that "quickly" is really relative here and heavily depends on your definition of what being "back" meant. It took West Germany until 1955 ti regain most of its' sovereignity and until the 1970s to join the UN. And its' reintegration was greatly helped by the perceived threat of the Warsaw Pact to Western Europe.

Then again, who knows what kind of compromises might become thinkeable in the face of Chinese imperialism in the future.

The Marshallplan? Start in 1949 also for West-Germany? Pumping money so short after the defeat into your once-death enemy?

Okay...the brewing Cold War helped....but still....

That is over, you just don't know it yet. Can't afford to chase unicorns.


Europe not really, Germany and maybe France possibly.


Well, so far the myth of German economy is gone, that has been build on a cheap Russian gas, you will have to do without it.

Some good news. Another £1.3 billion ($1.6 billion) in military aid to go to Ukraine.

" The £1.3 billion, drawn from the UK's reserves, includes £300 million of military kit, such as anti-battery radar systems to target Russian artillery, GPS jamming equipment and night vision devices.

The prime minister will host a meeting of arms companies later this month to discuss increasing production in response to the demand created by the conflict in Ukraine"

" A defence source said the money represented an "initial" amount, suggesting greater sums could be required in future."

itv.com/news/2022-05-08/uk-to-hand-over-13-billion-in-support-of-ukraines-fight-against-russia

" Nazi Germany was defeated militarily, occupied and de-Nazified by occupying forces"

they were denazified mostly by the soviets in the great patriotic war just like how putin and them are claiming ukraine is being denazified.

Imagine we WILL do without it? We could become the worlds first most modern green economy...thanks to Putin (in a way)....his antics really drove the point home that we can't go on like this...no longer "cheap fossils" for Germany!

That was a game changer for everything Green....no longer a "unicorn" but a necessity, believe it or not...

poland should go green to alongside more wind energy.

"Oh please. You are really overestimating our influence here. Neither Germany nor Europe are responsible for this war. "

I argue Biden is as responsible as Putin though. his weakness and constant as mafkeis previously pointed out goating or daring putin to attack caused it and not stepping into the negotiation table before it all started.

We all will. Plus of course an increase in nuclear power, especially as the small tokamak reactors from the STEP project are rolled out across Europe.

The world changed the day Putler invaded Ukraine, and those changes will be very far reaching.

It will take many years before business in Russia is back to normal.

I worked many times with Russians and been there quite often for business. But from now on people should only do business with Russians who can prove they never took any state money and they have some sort of certificate to prove it. We cannot risk exposing our staff to murderers, rapists and extremists.

I think really they should be able to back up their innocence with evidence of their social media posts condemning the invasions and the war crimes.

Let us have order. First in order are crimes of NATO and EU leading powers.

Hmm, actually last I heard, the greens have mainly been funded by the Kremlin too, and told to push the anti nuclear energy line to keep Europe gas dependent on Russia. Kremlin loves to fund both the far right and the far left.

The Greens alone are a much bigger problem for you than Russia could ever be.

Agreed!

But since the invasion the german Greens have surprised friends and enemies alike with the easy changes to many of their positions..for Ukraine they even left behind some founding principles (pacifism)....the Kreml isn't happy about them!

Today the far right and the far left lost big in the state elections of Schleswig-Holstein....all their russian funding is not helping them at all, the people don't want them!


How so?

Nuclear power is certainly the way forward for the next generation. As I said earlier, the STEP tokamak reactors are a game changer.

And russia will certainly remain a pariah state for many years to come, with a stench attached to those who trade with them and enable them. It's hard to see how sanctions could be entirely removed without a demilitarisation and significant loss of orc territory.

Germany first syndrome? If so, I am happy to read that.


Russia giving up its nukes is as likely as Putin converting Kremlin into a hostel.

Well.....there is a case to be made that with supporting Ukraine we truly would support our own free future. "Chamberlain" rings a bell? He was a Hitler-Versteher, tried to appease him with giving him the Sudetenland ("Peace in our time!"), which instead to pacify him led to the full blown WWII...

There is no reason why leaving Ukraine to Russia's mercy and keep out of it would truly lead to a peaceful Europe, why should Putin stop here as he was just successful?

So....to support Ukraine in fighting Russia is alot more like "Germany first" than staying on the side line...or worse, sitting on the fence!

We truly should heed some lessons from history...

He will be dead soon and we can all forget about him.

Poland can't be happy about biden's loose lips while pounding on his chest and getting chatty with the press.
He boasted about "The United States has provided intelligence about Russian units that has allowed Ukrainians to target and kill many of the Russian generals who have died in action in the Ukraine war.

This is classified information that biden is chatting to the press about.
(Quoting from a news source)
"The targeting help is part of a classified effort by the biden administration to provide real-time battlefield intelligence to Ukraine."
This raises the philosophical question of whether something is really classified if U.S. officials are telling reporters all about it.
A day later, U.S. officials were even more loquacious.
The Washington Post, New York Times and NBC News all reported that U.S. officials said the United States played a critical supporting role in helping Ukrainian forces sink the flagship of Russia's Black Sea fleet, the Moskva.

As NBC's reporters put it, U.S. officials were "confirming an American role in perhaps the most embarrassing blow to Vladimir Putin's troubled invasion of Ukraine."

So if tomorrow Putin declasres war........we can thank loose lips biden and company.
biden needs to shut his mouth and be removed from office before Putin in my opinion.
I am sure the people of Poland would agree as chatty biden is putting Poland in Putin's cross hairs.

lol I found another polish guy with the russian flag on his profile I wonder why they dont just put the Z symbol like serbs or russians?

facebook.com/groups/1562679607309518/user/100062250205618/