Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 4

While they are good tanks, they would need 3000 of them to make any difference, Russia is laughing ...

German tanks moving east never ends well for the Germans or the tanks.

"President Biden, President Zelensky, and most of the leaders of Europe have said this war is likely to end in a negotiation," Milley said during a meeting of the US-led Defense Contact Group at Ramstein Air Base in Germany. "From a military standpoint, this is a very, very difficult fight," he added.

A new definition of "morons"...

Morons - limited mental capacity humans who refused to talk in April, suffered thousands of casualties and watched their cities destroyed - only to sit down and talk later.

Geniuses - Novichok and the arms merchants laughing all the way to their respective banks.

They got their tanks that they have been begging for so let's see how long those tanks last before they break down and get blown up.

It won't stop, next they will want our stealth bombers loaded with nukes.

Why are we giving them our tanks and depleting our stockpile? Its not surplus, what if we need them? No freeloading Eurp country is even going to pay us back.

The Western warmongers want to have it both ways: (1) we are oh so scared that Russia is planning to invade Europe all the way to Lisbon and (2) that's why we are going to give away our tanks and have LGBT sensitivity classes. Sure, a-holes...

Awesome! Bravo Germany! :O :D 🥺 👏👍🇩🇪🐆



Pity that Abrams aren't named after some cool animal ;)

The Abram was named after General Creighton Abrams.
Much more distinguished than some pussy cat.
What did Poland name their tank after ?
Oh that's right, "Water tank." ;-)

russia invaded Ukraine, only morons blame 'the west' for being warmongers in Ukraine (a peaceful country which has the misfortune to be even closer geographically to russia than Poland is).

stop being a traitor, traitor.

That "pussy cat" could rip your throat out lol
Btw, you have some serious chip on your shoulder. That wasn't a jab at your tanks, so take it easy o_O


Exactly. RuSSia started this war - there's nothing more "warmongering" than starting a freaking war! lol 🤦

but wussia was pwovoked! what could poor widdle wussia do but invade?!?!

supporters of the russian government tend to veer wildly between thug rhetoric, insane imperialism and pure infantile projection... they have no case that makes sense to anyone who is sane and so they vent and throw all the sh[t they can at the wall hoping some dopes will fall for it (in novi's case, it apparently worked.....)

PT 91 Twardy. "Twardy" means tough.

"General Abrams" could back hand you and knock you into next week. 😲
That wasn't a jab, that was a fact. lol 👅

Oha...

....Most experts had expected that the Federal Republic would deliver Leopards of the A5 or A4 variant, a comparatively old model, of which Poland also wants to deliver 14 copies to its war-torn neighbors. Instead, Germany is providing more modern A6 tanks. The difference could be decisive for the war against Russia - however, the technically more complex systems also harbor challenges. ...

spiegel.de/wissenschaft/lieferung-von-verbesserten-leopard-2-vorteil-feuerkraft-a-ac2747fb-03c0-4ea8-b5b4-3b4c870919c4

...If the Leopard 2 A4 is the Golf 1, where the driver only needs to know where to find the accelerator, brake and indicators and where a talented mechanic can still lend a hand, the 2A6 is like the electronics-crammed S-Class W140 from Mercedes. The training on the eleven meter long tracked vehicle is correspondingly more difficult. ...

Right decision?

Powered by the old deiseal engine from twenty years ago ?
The Abram has a multifuel turbine engine.
Abrams tanks are extremely complex and require unique maintenance expertise.
Who is going to maintain and fix them when they break down ?
And at $5 Billion each to build I think the U.S. should give Ukraine a 100 of them to trash.
The Abram won't be on the battlefield for months down the road from now anyways, after the Russian major offensive.
Do you honestly think 31 Abram tanks are going to make much of a difference in the outcome of this war ?
My bet is that half of them will be out of commission in the first two months in combat.

As for the fear in Europe over Russia invading, clearly it is a fear that is well founded since they invaded Ukraine. The fear though is not a fear of fighting them, it is a fear of them destroying cities and killing civilians. I think all of Europe would fight Russia and wants to see Russia destroyed to a point where it could never be a threat to anyone again. Take away their nukes and then they can behave civilized. They simply are not intelligent enough to blend in with the rest of the civilized world. They are nothing more than highly trained baboons who can speak when compared to the west.

@Bratwurst Boy
Definitely the right decision. Precision killing is what will be needed in the spring. Russia will continue to blow its wad on bull$hit inaccurate missiles and they will continue to send men to be ground up. Then once things start to thaw, western tanks will roll in on top of them. I am betting the war is in the south, and tanks roll all the way to the edge of Crimea and then the missiles start roasting everything in Crimea. Embarassing little Vlad and taking his only real prize of the last 20 years away from him. When all that oligarch property becomes ash, little Vlad will be done. Exchange Crimea for Dontetsk or Luhansk? I dont think thats a trade the Russian people will accept and I think thats where this leads and then Vlad is a memory.

Nah, I don't think it did. Novichok is a dishonest demagogue who's enamoured with RuSSia's social conservatism. He's against the West, because it's too liberal, tolerant and "woke" for him. He also has a crush on Putin, because he's like a father he always wanted to have (unlike the one he had). This is what it really is about. And so Novichok will repeat any crap RuSSian propaganda will produce, no matter whether he believes himself in it or not, imho.


But general Abrams whom those tanks were named after doesn't look cool in photos, so I can't celebrate sending Abrams to Ukraine in a visual manner like with Leopards... duh! 🤷


I don't know, Krabs are also modern, packed with electronics, training on them was said to take some time, but Ukrainian soldiers who are using them are saying they're simpler and easier to use than older, Soviet self-propelled howitzers they were using before they got Krabs *shrugs*

Agreed.

But the question is not about the weapon but the ability to handle it correctly so that it can bring all its advantages to the battle...frankly spoken, will the Ukrainians use it as it needs to be used to be successful? Will they be able to?


That would be great! :)

Well...only time will tell....

Um... BB, do you think Ukrainians are some kind of cavemen with brains smaller than in the West? lol

...I'm German...we think that about everybody! ;)

It does looks like it is great for soldiers... My impression is that using modern weapons usually kind of boils down to pushing bottons (I'm oversimplifying now, but I think you know what I mean), so it's actually quicker, easier and simpler to use than older weapons where you had to do stuff yourself by hand, etc.... It's like with sniper rifles - the modern ones are said to be "shooting by themselves", while in the past you had to be a little mathematician to be able to take a successful sniper shot. Modern technology makes things easier, not more difficult (or so it seems to me). So, if that was the case with Krabs, my guess is that it's possible it's going be the same with those more modern versions of Leopards :) But yeah, we'll see...


lol ;D

T80 (except Ukraine-made T-80UD) has turbine as well. Positive side - fast start at any temperature, really multifuel, good power to weight ratio. Drawback - complex, require much more maintenance, compared to diesel engine, and VERY fuel-hungry.

I suspect that Abrams tanks will be used to a first technical problem. Then either abandoned at retreat and appear at tank museum in Kubinka as trophies, either will be evacuated and sent to repair, for many months.

@Bratwurst Boy
What we have learned about Ukrainian people in this war is that they are not only brave, but incredibly resourceful, highly intelligent, and they are tech savvy in a way that most people are not. This is a country of inventors and I am betting it will take less time to train them than expected on the Leopards. On the Abrams I think a little less time on the operational side but a longer time on the maintenance and repair side. I do not underestimate Ukraine resolve and ingenuity.

@Velund
The only thing in a Kubinka museum will be photos of all the dead Russians on Ukraine soil. Photos of all the Wagner criminals being torn apart by dogs. The retreat you mention will look a lot like the Russian retreat from Kherson, which there will be more to come. Why haven't you volunteered yet?

That would be the absolute best!

which is a hilarious idea since rates of hiv, sexual assault (hi central asian immigrants!), divorce, abortion and drug addiction are all extremely high...

but novi's daddy boyfriend putain talks about beating up the gays so novi gets all hot and bothered for him

what he doesn't realize is that russia spews propaganda across the political spectrum which is why far left tankies and the disaffected right are united against Ukraine....

Russia is not threatened by the coming to power of Banderist ideologues whose only written goal is the eternal fight against Russia, joining NATO and the ethnic cleansing of everything Russian from Ukraine with the open help and presence of American politicians on the Maidan?

in 2013



Some of you here in the forum who blow it to the Americans at every turn but think that the world is retarded and blind and that you can pretend to be dumb?

Since 2013, Ukraine has been an ordinary American puppet state modeled after Pinochet's Chile.

youtu.be/JeWHviwLMy8

Yup.


Even if that was true (which I don't think it is), then how is it your business? You don't seem to be bothered by the fact that Belarus is RuSSia's puppet state. Double standards much?

Very interesting!


tagesspiegel.de/internationales/stryker-challenger-stridsfordon-diese-panzer-sind-bald-neben-leopard-und-abrams-in-der-ukraine-im-einsatz-9230376.html

Stryker - US armored personnel carrier

...The list of vehicles and armaments that Ukraine will receive from the new $2.5 billion US military aid package includes 90 Stryker wheeled armored vehicles with 20 anti-mine rollers. .....

AMX 10-RC - fast wheeled tank from France

...The vehicles should then arrive in the Ukraine by mid-March at the latest. Mainly used for reconnaissance, the French armored vehicle has a powerful 105mm gun and is sometimes referred to as a "tank destroyer"....

Marder infantry fighting vehicle

...Germany plans to deliver about 40 Marder-type infantry fighting vehicles . Delivery of the vehicles is planned for the first quarter of 2023. The Marder is actually the German equivalent of the American Bradley.

Both are designed to fight against Soviet infantry fighting vehicles and other armored vehicles...

Bradley infantry fighting vehicle

...At the beginning of January it was announced that the United States intends to deliver 109 Bradley infantry fighting vehicles. The Armed Forces of Ukraine will receive a modification of the M2A2 ODS....

Stridsfordon CV90 - Sweden's infantry support

...The Kingdom of Sweden intends to deliver around 50 Stridsfordon CV90 (Strf 90 for short) armored personnel carriers, Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson recently announced in Stockholm....

Challenger 2 - British tank with special features

...On January 21, Great Britain announced the delivery of 14 Challenger 2 tanks to Ukraine. The 62 ton Challenger 2 is the main battle tank of the British Army. It has been in service there since 1998, making it the youngest main battle tank in the European armies. The Challenger has a crew of four.

The vehicle has strong armor, the exact parameters of which are secret. It is equipped with an advanced digital fire control system and has high firepower. It has already been used in combat missions in Kosovo and Iraq....

Absolutely impressive such a huge alliance working together....and that is really just the beginning....alot more countries are in!

And the year has only begun. Who knows what else will follow.

PKP Cargo trains loaded with Bradleys were already rolling towards Ukraine 3 days ago...



... so some of them have probably already been delivered. Obviously, the exact schedule of deliveries will
be kept secret.

i.pl/transport-sprzetu-na-ukraine-bojowe-wozy-piechoty-bradley-zauwazone-na-polskiej-kolei-wideo/ar/c1-17223785

Ukraine shoots down 47 of 55 missiles the Orcs launched at civilian infrastructure. Yep, that old Russian missile technology sure making a difference now that Ukraine has more air defense systems. Imagine what happens when the Patriot systems arrive. In other news, a 56th missile was supposed to be launched today, but the Orcs could not rub two sticks together fast enough to light the fuse. Happy gulag biiatches!