Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 4

well given the state of the russian military, it's pretty clear that no military figure thought of NATO as any kind of threat....

the threat of NATO is to constrain russia from invading its neighbors.... since essentially every russian government ever wants to invade its neighbors.... they don't like that.

But again NATO didn't encroach, countries like Poland which know russia all but begged on their knees to join (smart decision).

The EU is a different kind of threat. For all its flaws (which.... yeah, there are a lot of flaws in its structure and functioning) it's still a force for civil society which respects individual rights and human dignity (alien concepts to russians who have neither).

Galeev wrote a long time ago that even a kind of poor Ukraine that had adopted some form of liberal democracy with real elections was an existential threat not to russia, but to the ruling elite class of russia (a group of parasitic thieves who want to keep the serfs in line).

@GefreiterKania
American elites, or wealthy, are in a very real fight in the US. While Biden has done very well with this war, he is simply an idiot to a majority of Americans at home, and that's where American thoughts go first. Not saying its right or wrong, just pointing it out. Trump was not a president I could live with personally, but half of Americans liked him and that cant be ignored. I am an objective centrist when it comes to politics. I agree the US needs the EU as much as the EU needs the US. Historically, the EU has more internal problems between nations than we can count. The desire to "be in charge" by the US, Germany, France and others, is part of the problem. Everyone talks about global initiative but really only acts in their own interests unless forced to. Its all complicated because our own interests make it so. Thankfully though, old habits die hard, and like a smoker and cigarettes, the US desire to be a hero will almost always win out in any event. I am thankful for that because a changed Europe in my opinion, one blended with Russian influence, is a ruined Europe.

@amiga500
I agree with everything you said. With the Dems in control though, we all have to be weary of what BLM or other special interest may play a role in decision making.

Stick to the topic of the thread please, don't take it off-topic

....interesting:


spiegel.de/ausland/russland-ukraine-news-am-freitag-usa-und-frankreich-offen-fuer-lieferung-von-kampfjets-a-27bc0a32-d089-40a7-abd4-9123238affc9

6.10 a.m.: In addition to France, the USA is also open to the delivery of fighter jets to Ukraine. US President Biden's Deputy National Security Advisor, Jon Finer, said on MSNBC. When asked if the US is considering supplying fighter jets, Finer said it hadn't ruled out any particular weapon system. Support will be tailored to what Ukraine needs. "We will discuss this very carefully," Finer said, referring to inquiries from Ukraine.

Chancellor Olaf Scholz (SPD) ruled out the delivery of fighter jets after the promise of Leopard 2 main battle tanks on Wednesday.

Previously, the former Ukrainian ambassador to Germany, Andriy Melnyk, had called for modern fighter jets to defend against the Russian war of aggression. The allies should set up a strong fighter jet coalition, with US F-16s and F-35s, Eurofighters and Tornados, French Rafales and Swedish Gripen jets. Melnyk is now Deputy Foreign Minister of Ukraine. ....

Greedy! :)

Yeah, kinda wished he had waited one or two days, because people like Stegner can now claim vindication ("once we deliver tanks, they will want jets, where does the escalation ends?"). Though admittedly patience is difficult when your countrymen are killed every day.

I hope he gets what he asks for, this time it will be up to other countries to make a decision. Scholz must be very relieved that is not asked to make the first step.

...it's MELNYK! :)

...ohgod Stegner :(


I wonder about the French though....no Leclercs but Rafales???

Not likely to happen. Hundreds of A10 Warthogs are just sitting in storage. That could happen quickly and easily, and would be a great help, probably be the big final stroke to run the Orcs out of Ukraine.

....is there any talk about them?

@Bratwurst Boy
There was last fall. time.com/6207115/ukraine-train-fighter-pilots-russia/

The US has approximately 300 of these in storage as they have been officially retired.

.....super interesting story! There seems to be really hope for that happening....

This war would be over very quickly if NATO were to step up. The industrial military complex and the Dems love these long wars. Biden would keep it going for 20 years if he could.

NATO is a feckless pos! Just a bunch of cheap ass countries that only care about themselves.

That would probably mean: Nukes/WWIII

Who will risking that?

Auschwitz anniversary marked as peace again shattered by war

Norwegian intelligence suggests that Russian dead and wounded combined are 180,000, with total Ukrainian casualties at 100,000.

So, if these numbers are to be believed, since they are the first large numbers reported for both sides, Ukraine is still doing very well considering how outmanned they were. Now, combine those numbers and you have a complete travesty started by Putin. Devastation of a generation. Now tell me again you putinazi fvcks how Russia is winning? Even with a lot of casualties, Ukraine still doing better than Russia while being completely outgunned at the beginning.

Like two decades in Iraq and Afghanistan?

It seems this one is not about Ukrainian "democracy" and "freedom" but weakening Russia and dumping old and testing new mil hardware - with Ukrainians and "volunteers" as hamburgers and dog meat.


Now tell me again how a country in ruins, with 10 million of its citizens gone, 1 trillion-dollar worth of destruction, and 95% of its natural resources in Putin's hands is "winning".

May I suggest that you take a deep breath and read your response three times before you press POST MESSAGE.

BTW, Russia haters, what happened to the Ukrainians in Crimea since 2015? How many were executed or gulaged? I would appreciate numbers and sources, not Polish metaphors or adjectives.

Sources have been provided to you in the past as to the fate of people in Crimea who have been abducted and or killed due to their opposition to Russia. Numbers will only really became available after the liberation of Crimea.


Why can't it be both?

OK, no names and no numbers. Bottom line: you are clueless.
Nobody in Crimea was killed for going to work and back home for dinner.

No, you just have either a bad memory or are willfully ignorant. We provided you with data and links when you made your claims about the "democratic" nature of Russias' fake referendum and I see no reason to once again put effort into collecting them if you dont care either way.

Nobody in Crimea was killed for going to work and back home for dinner.
Z-P=0. Not worth dying for the difference.

Obviously they feel differently.

@Novichok
FREEDOM

That is winning. Now FO

Would you risk your life for whatever Z-P is in your opinion? If so, what's the difference?
Who is "they"? Draftees or foreign volunteers? Draftees have no choice and many would leave but for the Z police.
Plus, you have no clue how "they feel". Another piece of Polish poetry.

Nobody in communist Poland was killed just for going to work and back home for dinner when you left for America. N-G=0 (Nixon - Gomułka=0), right?

Or was it J-G=0 (Johnson - Gomułka)?

And that's why nobody in Poland was stupid enough to have Warsaw Uprising 2.0. What we had was not worth dying for to change.

Also people who returned to fight.
Not everyone rolls over like you would.

Would you roll over or be willing to die for Z-P?

If so, what is Z-P? See Ukrainians in Crimea as a reference.

Half a million people, conspiring against the Soviets after 1945 (according to IPN's calculations) would beg to differ, especially those who were in armed groups and fought the overwhelming Soviet, MO and UB forces.

Besides, would you tell the same thing to the victims in Poznań in 1956? Or those of December '70 or miners from "Wujek"? Of course, after horrible losses in WW2 most Poles were not willing to die fighting a hopeless war against the Soviets, but those who did fight and die should be remembered as heroes not denigrated as "idiots" who fought for something that was not worth dying for.

So, let people in Ukraine decide for themselves whether the freedom of their fatherland is worth dying for or not. Well, they actually have decided already, so your constant attempts to belittle their choice and efforts with your silly Z-P=0 equation are, frankly, disgusting. They are dying for something they believe in - that's what noble people do.

You supposedly know.... you tell us.

And it's clear that mass killings of civilians were part of the russian plan all along.

Lose your h@rd on for putain and join us in the real world.

If I were Ukranian I would have strong urge to fight (help fight). It might have been stopped by fear or other obligations but it deffinately wouldn't be a case of 'oh, no difference, not worth fighting for'

Thread of the day for lovers of putain....

twitter.com/YaroslavConway/status/1617865669315551234

quick summary.... many on the right in the west have lots of mistaken and dumb ideas about putain.....

the truth:

russia collects first world levels of taxation while delivering third-world level services.....

a third of russian children don't have access to running water and many schools are heated by burning chopped wood

almost a third of russian children are raised by single mothers

one in four pregnancies is aborted (!) why aren't the pro-lifers protesting against russia's sky high abortion rates?

putain does persecute gays and feminists (to the joy of idiots in the west) but since they've never been in charge in russia they can't be blamed for the death of the russian family

russia has the highest male suicide rate in the world,

russia has a high rate of drug addicition,

russia has the fifth highest rate of AIDs in the world

All of this means, russia is a truly inferior society and it's no wonder Ukrainians want nothing to do with it.

@mafketis
He doesn't know $hit. He has never been and will never be to Ukraine or Russia. Long dead before he can go worship at Putins grave, if they give him one. The Putin lover has never even been to Russia. He only wants to be part of the Putinazi circlejerk since the war began. Still he hides in his suburb of Chicago not talking loudly about his beliefs or he would have real problems.

Some of us have actually been to these places and speak from first hand knowledge. Bobko and Velund are at least Russian, while Novi and Crog are just putinazi fans of little Vlad. That tells us a lot about the personality disorder it takes to actually want to follow a leader you have no real relationship to. Probably followers of Jim Jones if not for the whole mass suicide thing.

Russia's number one export now? Strippers to Poland and mail order brides to Dubai. Nothing says success like selling yourself into white slavery like being from Russia.