Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 7

Yes, what do you do when one of these friends suddenly refuses to act as a friend??? Wouldn`t you be pissed off?? Yes, you would. So are Ukrainians. Simple.


Do you think the prospect of a ruined country with diminished population will lead Ukrainians to accept surrender to Russians???

CRN3, that is unbelievable. 6 out of 7! So much for diversity and inclusion.
Great post.


Don't drag me into this...
Novi is one of a kind in a good way. He never takes offense and comments only on the last post while ignoring all previous ones. That's class.


What is it now? Patronizing or fake concern?
If PAK had changed, he is in good company of those whom God gave brains, not rocks.

Germany demands explanation from Poland over migrants
Warsaw is accused of taking bribes to issue EU visas to migrants, many of whom then crossed the border into Germany

With friends like Poland, Germany needs a barbed wire and machine gun border.
If you give me immunity, I will come over to protect Germany as a payback for saving my life. I will bring my own weapons.

No, they were not pressured by their farmers. It's about something else.

Ukraine has always been pro-German and they orientate their foreign policies towards Germany. At the beginning of the war, when German help was limited and reluctant, there was a slight shift but right now they are back on their old pro-German tracks and there are elections coming in Poland. Elections in which Germany has a very clearly defined aim of installing a vassal government in Warsaw (which would not necessarily be a bad thing for Poland, mind you).

Hence, the attempts by Germany and Ukraine to allow the import of Ukrainian grain into Poland before the October elections (doesn't it seem strange to you that they didn't want to wait with all this sh*t storm for a couple of more weeks?) to incite Polish farmers against PiS and, in effect, cause PiS's electoral defeat. PiS are only interested in remaining in power - if only Ukraine waited for after the elections, they would allow the import of Ukrainian grain, print some money for some "tarcza dla rolników" or something, and everything would be fine and dandy. But grain is not the point - puppet government in Warsaw is the aim which Germany (using Ukraine as their tool) is working on.

How do you think PiS should have reacted to joint Ukrainian-German attempt at removing them from power? :)

Hopefully, in October the opposition will win the elections, all these antics will end and Poland will come back to her old pro-European policies. Unfortunately we are not a superpower - we can't antagonize both Russia and Germany at the same time (it never ended well for us), and having a pro-Russian government in Warsaw is something that won't happen in foreseeable future (but at least Russian-neutral government would be nice), so we have to be reasonably pro-German. That's Realpolitik for you.

As for Ukraine's future prospects, well... I don't want to say that Karma is a lady whose income derives from her having sexual intercourse for monetary remuneration but it would seem that her sustenance does indeed depend mainly on this factor.

@Novichok

Yes, I realise that I just used 35 words to say that "Karma's a bi*tch" and that it offends your sense of linguistic simplicity but I didn't want to be overly brusque (that's rarely a good thing).

Well, all of this didn't start yesterday, you know, and it escalated over time. I don't know anything about "the German connection" since, like we all (you included), I have no idea what's going on behind the scenes. This is what an Ukrainian expert has to say about this "grain conflict" and what it looks like from the Ukrainian perspective:

wiadomosci.wp.pl/fesenko-sytuacji-w-ktorej-kijow-przyjdzie-i-poprosi-o-wybaczenie-nie-bedzie-6943651281640160a

What changed me and some of my opinions? Going back to the US, seeing the shape the country is in. Talking to family and friends who have always been hard core Dems, listening to them and seeing people reacting negatively about the situation in the US. Talking to people who generally have supported the US military aid blindly, who are tired of spending all this money on Ukraine when so much is wrong in the US. So, if seeing things is changing, and being open to real observations and ignoring the "news" narratives is changing, then so be it.

I have never back walked the fact that I want Russia to lose. Still do. I have not changed my opinion that most people who support this war are deserving of a good "happy gulag biatches" every morning. But I am also a realist. An observer. Not someone who blindly follows or believes in anything anyone says. As I head back to the US again for a few days next week, I will again observe from a different geographic location within the country to see what the opinions are there. And I will do the same every month through next June. Unlike many who only read or seek out one source of information on this war, I want as many vantage points as possible.

As for the USA not being a threat to Poland, that is not big picture thinking. The lack of the USA in Europe and in Poland is a big threat to Poland and the EU. When the US turns its attention to whats going on within its borders, the threat of reduced US presence and support in the EU is really just as large a threat as Russia rolling through the EU. While I understand non Americans dont GAF about the condition of the US within its own borders, that is exactly the reason why Americans are tired of spending to protect everyone outside of its borders. The sentiment of the people in the US is changing, and if you cant see that, then you havent spent time in the US.

How well is russsia doing in the war (since we have so many russian cheerleaders here)?

So well that a general and member of the Duma on tv suggested sending the unemployed to the front and making everyone (including children and the elderly) work 12-15 hour days with no days off....

That well.

twitter.com/NatalkaKyiv/status/1704662873576747134

Wow.....true?


spiegel.de/ausland/polen-liefert-keine-waffen-mehr-an-die-ukraine-angeblich-wegen-aufruestung-im-eigenen-land-a-f32f7fa6-0e33-45e6-8a15-6b888f019650

In a TV interview, Poland's Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki spoke of stopping his country's arms deliveries to Ukraine - and thereby caused a stir. It is unclear whether the statement was intentional. ....

@Bratwurst Boy
Poland has been getting rid of equipment that is known and functional within Ukrainian army (but not necesarily for Poland or NATO standards)

Also sent Polish produced equipment as a sort of "test it, it's really good. Mention it in TV please"

Now that Poland is buying newest arms and equipment. (Even as far as from Korea)

There isn't much more to give, as Polish army still has too little equipment with regard to aims of equipping the Polish army.

It has been basically "buying time - until Russians invade or goals for equipment has reached"

Okay.....but that doesn't mean Poland will also stop weapons transported through Poland to Ukraine, right?

Ukraine - the only nation worse at diplomacy than Poland. Fancy suggesting that some countries only pretend to support them. Oh Zelensky, you've done it again! Well now Poland knows how it feels to be on the receiving end of snubs and insults, much in the same way they snubbed and insulted the EU over the last few years.

Probably not. However, Morawiecki mentioned that Ukraine should remember in their actions that Poland is not only a country through which goods are exported from Ukraine but also a country through which transports TO Ukraine are sent. This indeed sounded like a thinly veiled threat.

If I were to advise something to Ukrainians at this very moment, I'd tell them to go easy on everything turbo (turbo policies, turbo insults, turbo suggestions and allusions etc.).

twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1704790943247827024

Out of context quote being utilized for purposes of russian disinformation


Just what they need, more advice more someone who wants them to lose....


To be fair, they're under a _lot_ more stress than Poland at the moment...

brave russians target student accomodation.... I bet the russians were disappointed that it wasn't a pre-school....

I definitely don't want them to lose. I mentioned on several occasions that the best outcome of this war for Poland is a hard-fought draw. It would make Ukraine a bit less turbo and Russia a bit less ready to put Poland as their next item on the menu.

Both Russian and Ukrainian victories might create problems for us (of different nature but problems nonetheless). Draw, we can live with.

And I'm sick like a dog of you yappin at polam, gettit u dumb bamboo?

It's pretty incredible to witness. It may have something to do with the attitudes of the population at large. I have a Ukrainian acquaintance, with whom I sometimes play online PC games before bed. Last night we had approx. this conversation:

B: Been reading about yet another own goal your people have scored on the diplomatic front.

V: Oh? Is this about grain and Poland? All bullsh!t - it's electoral season there now.

B: It may well be political theatre ahead of the elections, but certainly we can agree there have been some unforced errors on your side as well - no?

V: Who cares if there were? The Poles will jump precisely as high as the Americans tell them to. The adults in the room, will not allow Poland to pull anything too retarded.

B: Even if that is true, is this the way to treat a country that has been amongst your first supporters since the war broke out?

V: You think they support us out of some sense of altruism? Then you do not know Poles. This war is beneficial to Poles for so many reasons already. Why make things in the future even more difficult for ourselves, by displaying some especial piety towards them now?

B: What on Earth are you talking about?

V: If we assume the position of a beggar vis-a-vis the Poles, then they will lord it over us for the rest of eternity. Replacing one "big brother", with another. No thank you. I'm happy my government is beginning to set out relations with Poland on an equal footing, even before the war has ended.

B: Ok. An interesting perspective... let's talk about something else now.

SHIFTING VIEWS
A survey last month showed that the number of Poles who support allowing refugees from Ukraine in has fallen to 69% from 91% just after the war started. A quarter are against, compared to just 4% in early 2022.

OLISH PUSHBACK
It is against this political backdrop that PiS decided to extend a ban on Ukrainian grain imports in response to rising anger in the party's rural heartlands.

"When it was necessary, we opened our hearts, we opened our homes for refugees from Ukraine," Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said. "But when it is necessary to protect Polish farmers, the PiS government will do it, because for us the interests of Polish farmers are the most important."

So seventy percent support ukranian refugees despite the recent troubles, that's pretty strong society support

oh wait i know what's going to happen theres going to be an october suprise just lie the polarisation goin on in usa en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_October_Surprise_theory

Boom Boom

@mafketis
Completely true. Said by Polish President and PM. Now new CNN poll says 55% of Americans against any more aid to Ukraine. But hey, what do I know. Z is not going to get the long range missiles he wants from US. Congress want to hear directly from Z what the winning plan is. People want to know where the off ramp is. Biden with the worst approval ratings in history, setting up the Republican party.

@amiga500
PiS taking the completely correct approach to this grain issue. What is wrong with the Polish government protecting farmers? When so many say the Ukraine government by fighting a war is protecting its citizens. Looks like a double standard. The Left cries foul, because PiS did something every government should do?

Seventy is much less than ninety one, if going off the numbers you provided. In statistics, it's often the trends that are more important than static figures.

In general, most people would have a hard time coming out "against" allowing refugees in. Especially if those refugees are not Syrian men in their twenties, but blond and blue eyed women and children. So this statistic, to me, actually shows a dangerous shifting of popular attitudes in Poland.

This forum is proof that the shift is real - just look at what Kania and PAK are writing (two rather different people, otherwise).

Oh, yeah? Try some more turbo stuff then... and see what happens. :)

For obvious reasons, I have a hard time sharing the full breadth of my opinions about the conflict with this gentleman.

Yet, I think it's remarkable how his delusional behavior mirrored the behavior of his government. Let me try to explain... As a person, I don't think people anywhere are really that different from each other. The behavior of a nation state, cannot really shed light on how the individuals that make up that state conduct themselves in their own lives. At least, this is my long held opinion.

In this fella's case, it's a perfect overlay. His behavior explains Ukraine's behavior, and his behavior can be most easily explained by the fact that he is Ukrainian. Lol.

Exaclty right, no matter the bobkos and the kanias, that try to pretend it;s nothing more than an import ban, and whateva happens across our borders, is nothing to do with us. will hope the ukri gov will realise, but like they learnt off the germans it's a zero sum game and right now zelenski alligned with sholtz against poland. the deal is peace with russia in return for a piece of eu

it's serious polam. the ukri have alligned with the krauts, who gave them 5000 helmets b4, they want a piece of the eu. for peace. for deutchland. wouldn t that sound a good trumpian campaign?

Did you know they took the word 'gullible' out of the dictionary? Your picture is gone too.....


Cool story, bro.... imagine the odds of you just happening to have a conversation with a Ukrainian 'acquaintance' who just happens to say a bunch of stuff calculated to get Kania upset...

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Zelinsky how dare you?
trying to bring a nation that was responsible for one of the biggest genocides in history? into the un security council hahah bring china too u idiot!

I did.

Of course you did.....

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how was it your ukranian wife? how did did the convo go?


maf please be kind to our resident intellectual ruski trolls, i'm sure she will stab him eventually

PiS is not the whole of Poland. Majority of Poles are also at the receiving end of snubs and insults coming from PiS and its electorate, so, yeah, we know what it feels like...


True.


Speak for yourself.