Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 14

Dude... I mean really... I get the hatred and trolling but aren't you overdoing it a bit?


You are making a schoolboy mistake of considering those who agree with you "intellectually aware" and those who are of a different opinion "peasants and lumpenized urbanites". ;)

I am quite sure that intellectually aware people of Central Asia notice problems caused by sharp decline in the quality of governance all over the region; e.g. problems with water management system in Kazakhstan causing severe shortages in summers, corruption which makes Soviet authorities look almost Swiss, rise of radical islamism and return to tribal system in many places, practical revival of serfdom in Turkmenistan, authoritarian regime in Tajikistan, common pauperisation of small towns and villages and so on and so forth.

You may consider the Soviet Union to be the incarnation of all evil in the world but for many people it meant civilisational progress and freedom, compared to the middle-ages-like systems that they had before and that they would seem to be reverting to in many places.

Good luck with that.

Kazakh youth watch Russian stand up comedy, listen to Russian music, use YandexGo instead of Uber, and a lack of knowledge of Russian is a pretty sure indicator that they are not from the big cities.

Big City Kazakhs call Kazakhs that don't know Russian - Mambets (sort of like rednecks or hillbillies).

Russian is their window unto the world.

Try writing technical documentation in Kazakh, or see how many people will read a PhD dissertation written in Kazakh.

300+ million people speak Russian - how many people speak Kazakh - 20?

Why would young people limit themselves to such a narrow space? This doesn't mean they shouldn't learn English, but I think Russian should take precedence over Spanish or French. Maybe Mandarin should also be taught.

Kazakh is roughly mutually intelligible with most other national Turkic languages (these kids watched Turkish shows in the original although they couldn't read it though they could quickly learn).

What you say about Kazakh was once said about Polish, so.....

Poles always spoke Polish.

There was no moment in time when Russian was more popular than Polish - in Poland.

In Kazakhstan it was something like 80%+ of the population whose first language was Russian. The remaining 20% were people living in distant villages and old people.


Who told you this nonsense?

Kazakhs can easily understand Kyrgyz, and with slightly more difficulty Uzbek. Tatar is also close to Kazakh.

Turkish/Azeri is much, much different. It would be quite difficult for a non-linguist to understand Turkish soap operas or music. It would be like Spanish and French.

Tajiks speak Farsi.

Wikipedia (usual caveats)

Kazakh 80.7 %

russian 83.7 %

ethnicity

Kazakh 71%

russian 14.9%

I doubt if more than 5 % or so of russians speak Kazakh (since russians strongly avoid learning languages that they think are beneath them (one reason they're such a nuisance in the Baltics).

I doubt if more than 5% or so of Kazkahs don't speak Kazakh and other Turkic people make up another 5% or so of the population....

Kazakh itself isn't a world beater but the Turkic world is probably more appealing to most Kazakhs than is the decaying empire of russia (especially since so many russian resources are funnelled to moscow and the hinterlands are so neglected).

One of the few winners of the russo-Ukrainian conflict has been Turkey (erdogan playing both sides and extending his despotic rule) and Turkey is a major popular culture power (Turkish soap operas have long replaced Latin American ones in Poland).

But however many Kazakh's speak (or rather understand) the language, it will be years, many generations before they see Norrh Nigeria as an example to look up to. They won't care if the Soviets gave their great grandads electricity (shortly before they sent them to the centrally heated, all mod con Gulag)

Turks are not at all popular in Kazakhstan. Only Arabs and Chinese are hated more.

Arabs because of all the Salafi/Wahhabist influence in the 90s and early 2000s - primarily financed by Saudis and Qataris.

Chinese because they hire only their own, even when they invest - and they are historic enemies of all the steppe nomads.

Turks are a little bit of a different story. They invested heavily throughout the 90s and early 2000s. The first shopping malls (Ramstore), the first consumer goods (Beko), and the first foreign higher education institutions were Turkish (mainly Gülenist).

The reason Kazakhs dislike Turks is because they treat them as the "little brother", dress like gays, and act very vulgarly towards local women. Kazakhs view the Turks as "those that left", and think they should be the "older brother".

The Turks are not even Turks. They are more Greek and Armenian than Turks. Where else can you find blonde and blue eyed Turkic people?

Ever seen a photo of Mustafa Kemal?

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like russians view Ukrainians.... quelle surprise!

The same time I had the Kazakh students I had some Turkish students.... much less impressive and much more... uninterested in the world. the Kazakhs were open and curious and the Turks kind of closed and jaded....

Not a fan of Turks myself. Just another flavor of lazy Mediterranean bastards. Kazakhs have no business kowtowing to those bastards.

I'm sure they care very much about your opinion....


I've been to Turkey and have seen the genetic diversity first hand. The Kazakhs all looked very, very Asian (as in could pass for Chinese).

That's what Turks are supposed to look like.

Well not quite Chinese, but I understand what you mean. China itself has many Turkic peoples, like the Uyghurs.

You can still find the real Asian looking Turks in the far eastern part of Turkey.

Chinese = shorthand for 'generic Eastern Asian)

Chinese are a lot more diverse looking that many realize.... I've dealt with a bunch over the last few years and there a _lot_ more phenotypes than most people realize in terms of bodytypes (gracile vs robust), skull shape, hair type, skin tone etc.

I've always found Turkish women (the mixed European-Asian variety) to be immensely attractive.

*looks behind his shoulder to see if his blonde green-eyed wife is around*

Ever since I was a boy I've always cheered for Miss Turkey in the Miss World competitions.

@mods sorry for the off-topic :)

I think they are like Bulgarians and Greeks. Hairy arms and big mustache.

Big nose.

Vagine like sleeve of wizard.

@GefreiterKania
I think the position the UK is taking and pushing the US to take is a very dangerous one. Putin has proven to be a very patient man, and I think he sees the big picture. He is still organizing with BRICS countries, and if all of them do come off the dollar there will be problems in the west. The argument being made is so that Ukraine can hit valid military targets in Russia. So by those same standards and arguments Russia should be able to attack any Ukraine targets in any country.

People arent thinking with their heads. Vlad only has to say he was proving a point after one attack. The US is not going to send soldiers into Ukraine, and Poland isnt either. NATO? This is the one thing that could potentially break NATO. If not for the UK and US telling Z to keep fighting this war would have been settled in weeks. And now, the UK and US are being forced into a position I dont think either anticipated.

Russia clearly has enough resources to continue for years. Ukraine does not. Eventually Ukraine will run out of men, and Russia wont.

Anyways, the main problem in the 21st century for European countries will be demography. Ukraine is pretty much f*cked in this regards, but Russia's and Poland's demographic futures look bleak as well. Some people think that dying out (i.e. people not willing to have children) is something inherent in the moder liberal-capitalist system, where freedom of individual is put on pedestal and traditional family values are disregarded.

One way or another, if this war - or anything else for that matter - can make any sense at all, every country should start a special operation, a special demographic operation. The problem is nobody knows how to go about it.


It is not very often that you talk nonsense but at the moment you're doing just that.


That's it in a nutshell I suppose. I am more concerned about what will happen after the war.

Well population fluctuations are kind of normal*.. but neoliberalism (modern liberal-capitalism on steroids) can't handle anything but constant growth so the impulse is to try to rig the system by bringing in new people (one reason neoliberals are utterly obsessed with moving large amounts of people around).

That disrupts the natural ebb and flow of populations and once started... can't really be stopped.

*remember the mouse experiment? it was repeated a bunch of times and the usual cycle was population increase then a big fall and then a new gradual increase. Supposedly there's evidence in human history of the same cycle.

Ukrainian news is plastered with some pretty gloomy news during the last two days.

Ukraine has set a new world record.

It has the both the highest death rates, and the lowest birth rates in the world - according to the CIA World Factbook.

That's what happens when you have a country of pensioners (9M labor force, and 14M pensioners), and all the women and children have left.

What's sort of depressing to see is that all the other countries in the top 10 are also from Eastern Europe. Countries like Latvia and Lithuania have also been robbed of their youngest and most fertile people by the EU, leaving a bunch of old farts behind - which skews the statistics.

You can't really blame the war or poor socioeconomic conditions for the world's worst birth rate, because Ukraine's neighbors in that list are countries like Monaco and Japan - who nobody can accuse of being poor or war ravaged.

Source: censor.net/ua/news/3509645/v_ukrayini_nayivyschyyi_riven_smertnosti_ta_nayinyjcha_narodjuvanist_u_sviti

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Germany is EU and we have the same demographic problems.....that's why our dumbasses on the top want to fill the gap with illiterates from Syria and Afghanistan....how come?

The problem is that the new people, if they integrate well (and that's the general idea), stop having children as well. The second and especially the third immigrant generations have equally low birthrates as the original population. It means that the existence of the system depends on the existence of poor countries which provide the rich ones with their young generations. So, there will always be poor countries because the very existence of the rich ones depends on it.


Hmm... I'm not entirely convinced.


Complete and utter nightmare. At the moment these countries are the salt of the earth, the true West. And we are dying out... kurwa. :(

You mean it's not just dentists and professors of philosophy arriving from Syria?


Just as there is military conscription, there should be fertility conscription.

All women aged 18 get conscripted into f*ck battalions. No demobilization until at least 2.1 children are produced.

I've never seen one.....

No...what I mean is....if the EU is to blame for stealing other countries youth Germany should profit from that at least, shouldn't it....but we have the same problem, only old farts left!


Maybe a new kind of gov pays and supports native families for being "families" again? Would that be Nazi or racist?

And they haven't even thanked you!!!!!

Ukraine before russia.... struggling but struggling okay

Ukraine after russia.... basket case...

Why would anyone want to be part of the russkij mir again? I keep not hearing any coherent answer.....

You should do what Russia does, and invade Austria and Switzerland.

We already added 5M or so Ukrainians through Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk. That gives us a little demographic cushion.

Annexing Austria and Switzerland will give you a similar cushion for another 20-30 years of people that are educated and speak German.

....complaining Austrians would find no end....and the Swiss are just weird.....how about Poland! :)

The idea is absolutely brilliant in itself. However, being in possession of a rather sharp intellect, I can already foresee certain problems with this solution.


The main task for the EU in the coming years is to figure out a way to go full nazi without actually becoming real nazis. Hmm... *scratches head*

That's not going well.

German State Cuts Benefits For 'Lazy' Migrants

"With more than half of German welfare payments going to foreign migrants, the state of Saxony-Anhalt has cut the benefits of asylum seekers who refused to pick up debris following heavy flooding in east Germany.

64 migrants had been written to by local authorities demanding they help clear rubbish and erect dykes after devastating floods in the area.

39 people agreed to help, while the rest, who are said to be from Syria, Afghanistan, Niger, Mali and Albania, failed to turn up."

zerohedge.com/political/german-state-cuts-benefits-lazy-migrants

The war and its associated casualties have only accelerated the collapse. Ukraine was already the worst in Europe on both counts.

Let me remind you, that Ukraine had 52 million people in 1991. That's FIFTY TWO MILLION!

Most recent statistics put the number of people living there at somewhere between 28 and 32 million. Only Romania, Bulgaria and the Microbalts are in the same league.

For some reason, the population in all of Eastern Europe collapsed as soon as Mordor eased its clutches.

Big, bad, terrible Soviet Union somehow managed to create a better environment for creating families.

Kania possesses a sharp intellect, maybe he can tell us why?

My theory is that sh*tting on Russia's doorstep at every opportunity was not wisest foreign policy vector.

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so russia just accelerates collapses.... not something to be proud of....

I try.....for the same reasons third world countries are flooding with populations they can't feed!

There seems to be a strong connection between personal affluence and liberal freedoms and the number of children!

poor/underdeveloped = many children

rich/developed = less and lesser children

*shrugs*

(I don't want to become a poor, undeveloped third world country only to rise the number of births....there must be another way!)