Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 15

Nukes, I guess....anything to do with nukes....tech....support....parts....anything! North Korea is working on their own for awhile now....

It's the biggest prize of all....definitely worthy your own peoples lives far away from home in a conflict you don't care about (in the eyes of the dictator).

The FT writes, with reference to South Korean and Western sources, that the North Koreans want:

1) Invaluable battlefield experience against Western trained and equipped forces. Something they can't get anywhere else in the world.

2) Fuel. Security Council sanctions had previously limited fuel supplies to the DPRK to starvation levels.

3) Food. A stable problem since the 90s.

4) Help on their ballistic missile program, and also developing their reconnaissance capabilities - including satellites.

Russia gives NK legitimacy - that's the main exchange. From being a cooperative partner for the West in curbing NK nuclear ambitions, and helping to isolate the country, Russia has instead swung to being a full fledged ally. I think that's the main win for Kim.

For us, in turn, he has been incredibly useful. Western press report that HALF of the artillery shells used at the front this year by Russia were supplied by NK. HALF! That's approximately 3 million shells.

Meanwhile, the Czech prime minister has managed to crowdfund the purchase of only 500,000 shells for Ukraine - after searching the entire world.

Also, the guys were getting now seem to be very highly trained. Their discipline and morale are expected to be superior to that of our line formations. A few small details about them in the screenshot below:

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Just being pragmatic here....how great can these soldiers be if the country has to sell them for food and fuel??? As you very well know, an ongoing problem!

That just doesn't fit....lets wait for the first experience reports....

And nothing about nukes at all? That still IS the ultimate prize in the one real important conflict for NK's dictator....the number one enemy, South Korea!

These Emaciated Koreans have been highly trained alright - in North Nigeria LOL, home of elite WW1 tactics and effective battle preparation (normally involving another half liter on the table)

What are you talking about?

North Korea has been a nuclear state since 2012. They've conducted at least six tests since then, according to Wiki. Some of the tests seem to have been of "hydrogen" bombs. They've managed to miniaturize the warheads, and then they managed to put them on top of a ballistic missile that can reach the US West Coast. Finally, they launched their own satellite recently.

So... they are not completely useless. I don't see how much more Russia could help them with their nuclear program, if not a civil one (there we are number one in the world). What they do need more help with is delivery systems. If now they can only reach the West Coast of America, Russia could help them develop missiles which can strike at any point on the globe. Not exactly sure why Russia would want to help them with that, however.

What I had read about ballistic missiles is that Russia was willing to help with short and medium range ones, which could help them in a potential war with the South.

I read they are not working right....the same reasons and problems as with food and fuel, international sanctions and isolation. They are unable to do whats necessary, lacking many important means!
You read it yourself, they even have problems with missiles...and nukes are another league!

That's why this trade "soldiers against tech" makes really the most sense, IMHO!
Especially since the dictator loves to threaten South Korea with war every second day....

North Korea's economy is crap, and their population all wear the same clothes - because this is a country built around a military, or as some people used to say about Prussia: "An army with a state".

You should read about their guiding ideology, Juche Thought. Everything is subservient to the military.

I will grant that the overwhelming majority may be of low quality, but I also do not doubt that such a militaristic state could produce isolated pockets of excellence where expenses were not spared.

Ukraine is taking them seriously, and you should too.

For both Ukrainians and Russians morale has been a huge problem. Both on the offense and on the defense. Unit cohesion falls rapidly with casualties, attacks are aborted because of panic, trenches are abandoned after just an initial barrage. Units pick up and leave, without advising their neighbors to the left and right that they are withdrawing.

So the expectation is that in comparison to us and the Ukrainians, the North Koreans will represent a real "Death Korps". The North Korean migrant workers in Vladivostok were described their employers as having "soldier-like discipline". Hopefully these guys coming in will be just as solid.

Yes...they will either be dead or deserters.

Ouch...that comparison hurts! 😳


And here is where I digress...

People tend to flee North Korea when they can....

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_defectors

There are two main reasons for fanatism at the front....

1.) Believer in an ideology/religion
2.) Defending your home/family

This war in Ukraine is neither for these men!

Wiki says there is already a sizeable number of North Koreans living as refugees in Russia....

r*SSia too. Both of them places that people try to flee.

This is a huge escalation, involving another belligerent in the war. It is unlikely to turn out how Putler wants.

Prussia was advanced economy at the time. In fact I imagine more people had light and sanitation in 1870 Prussia than in 2024 North Korea.

These army states like Eritrea and NK are obviously crap once any real fighting starts. The fact they are used to extreme physical hardship isn't going to stop any drones and missiles, nor is the fact they are a bunch of crazy bastards - so we're Wagner and they didn't make much headway once they encountered proper weapons.

@Alien

It won't take long to see the results.

For the moment, it seems that they can only be used inside Russia (though this is not clear yet). So their first destination will be Kursk, where the Ukrainians already lost half of what they took two months ago.

If they help us push the Ukrainians out of Kursk - that's already a good result. Afterwards, there is speculation they could replace units carrying out their duty in Russia, in order to free up those for Ukraine. This seems strange to me... Are we talking about North Koreans guarding our border with Finland?

The way they are organized is interesting too. The 810th Marine Infantry Brigade has become the "foster parent" for the North Koreans. It will supply one translator, and 3 Russian officers, per every 30 North Koreans. There's also 3 NK generals that have arrived, and will be interfacing with the staff of the 810th.

Kinda crazy how normal people like you and me can follow such news with such detail in the 21st century. Before, it would take some decades for us to be able to piece these things together.

Good. NK is now on the untouchable list and the US warmongers have to look elsewhere to have another Iraq-grade feel-good war.

They are so much fun when the target has no nukes...

At what time? In 1870 their economy wasn't that great they bloomed due to the aqusition of the other German states and the huge contribution they extorted from France.

@Bobko

...just an idea....should it really come to war between North and South Korea....will Russia send troops to help the North too? Could that be part of the deal?

How would Russians react? What would you say?


Come on Iron...Prussia was never like NK!!!

Will never happen. In criminal law it's known as motive. There is no motive. For the fat boy to be even fatter?

3) Trying to stay alive.

Some people hold delusions about Prussia, I can respect that.

...na ja....he needs to uphold the fairytale why his people have to suffer such lives...winning the war against the bad South, the usual...


Waving the white flag and surrender to the Ukrainians will give them a better life than they could even dream of back home!


Thank you! :)

Are you allowed to post during Ramadan?

That is the substance of the agreement Putin signed with Kim when he made that trip. Specifically, Article 4 of the agreement.

In practice, I think it means the war will never happen - at least started by SK aggression - because it doesn't represent much difficulty for Russia to erase South Korea.

Really...crazy!

So...in the case of the NK dictator losing it totally then we could see russian soldiers fighting and dying anywhere in Korea?

And let's not forget that their very existence as a European power was possible because of the theft of Polish lands in partitions. Russia was a superpower anyway and Austria was a force to be reckoned with back then too, but Prussia without Polish lands would have been nothing. They were the main force behind partitions.


NK vs SK war would be a slaughter of North Koreans. The difference in military technology is immense, and Northerners wouldn't be able to use their nuclear weapons (Korea, North or South, is way too small for that; it would be suicidal).

I doubt it would be that easy.
Also it could mean an end to Kim's dynasty. China might have something to say about his extracurricular activities.
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It was nothing more than the rebelled Polish province - ungrateful brats.

That would not make much sense...

Rule one of despotism: Don't make waves when the water is calm and flat.

Rule two: Keep fear high and a desire to die first low.

This is how ten SS-men were able to control 10,000 on the way to gas chambers.

You are on my most favorite list so this example was not in any way directed at you. Just an example how easy it is to control masses.

Another example: The US population is terrorized now by 0.1% trans morons - not just into silence but active support.

Nazis and Bolsheviks were never this effective...

I've seen different hypotheses about what's going on with the norks....

putain likes to show he can escalate whenever he wants and the west will do its very best to ignore that...

no way will north korea allow them back.... (I've heard stories about Nork 'workers' sent to earn money for the Kim regime... not pretty).

I'm kind of favoring the idea that they're a token of good will from the norks to the russian government (here take these soldiers and do whatever you want to them... just don't send them back...) and the idea is that russia will aid them in arming up. They also want a hedge against China (supposed ally that they actually deeply hate).

I dont' think the current nork government is planning in stepping up attacks against the south but you never know...

Again... russia is a beggar when it comes to allies and only the worst of the worst want anything to do with russia...

The grandfather and father of the current Kim starved about 10 per cent of the population to death in the 1990s though incompetence and indifference NorthKorea cares about human life even less than russia (that is saying something).

I'm thinking right now:

1) It was pretty f*cking smart of Stalin to create this little hermit kingdom in Korea. Now they are saving his grandchildren.

2) History repeats itself. The founder of North Korea, Kim Il Sung, was a Red Army officer, trained in Moscow. Now his grandson is sending us men, some of which may become the future leaders of NK in turn.

3) The Korean War is called the Forgotten War in America. More people died there than in Vietnam and Afghanistan (Soviet) combined. That war brought the world to the brink of a nuclear conflict. Koreans are fierce fighters, and much more disciplined than us Slavs.

You still assume Kim is thinking rationally, logically...like you and me. But look at the country he took over and build...nothing about it is sane and working!

Hence we can assume his plans and ideas for the future will be equally crazy and sick!

Correct.

Any life is better than being dead. Especially when Z-P=0.

China's role is being guessed at.

Some people say, true enough, that China is not happy that what it thought was its puppet is going back into Russia's orbit.

China is not interested in further nuclear proliferation in East Asia, and it does not want an armed conflict on the Korean Peninsula. This is all true.

However, some people say that the only reason North Korea can send such tremendous amounts of artillery ammunition is because Putin and Xi made an agreement where Xi backfills NK stocks. This may allow us to practically "empty" North Korea of weapons, while China will eventually get them back into fighting shape.

North Korea could be a great intermediary between China and Russia, who are not able to work together openly.

I just watched a video about Stalin's purges in 1937. One guy was able to execute 700,000 people, including his closest associates, by just putting an X on the list he would read the way we read morning papers or check emails.

Everybody was at risk and he still died peacefully in 1953. Try to explain that...