Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 24

@Torq
Probably thinking about results of Potsdam conference or something.

Either way, fans of the «Strong hand» politics, willfully ignore events in 1945-1989 that happened in Europe and cannot fathom that Soviet Union and U.S.A influence, power and focus changed drastically over those years in Europe and that prewar countries started to get back on their feet. Expecting to keep their influence on same level for the same reasons when situation changed dramatically is nothing short of idiotism.

The reshape&update in the 1990 came not only as a surprise to both of the powers but, were totally taken aback with no plan or emergency plan of actions to handle it.

Putin hampering about return of Soviet Union and U.S thinking it has same to say as Truman or Eisenhower in post war Europe is ignoring current events, needs and goals in Europe. And it's biting them both at the same time without even realising it. So bring it forth, I'll enjoy the popcorn 🍿

Piłsudski (the guy that "won" us independence in 1918 and then fu*cked up and became a dictator) was ethnically Lithuanian. Kościuszko (the guy that was leader of the uprising in defense of Polish Constitution, and later helped create USA) was ethnically Belarusian. Mickiewicz (the national poet that created half the important Polish literature in 19th century, then went cult leader and created a small religion, and then made a small Polish army in exile in Turkey) - was also ethnically Lithuanian. Traugut (socialist dictator of January Uprising) was ethnically German. And so on. Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth was as multiculti as you can get, and the elites that remained (and wanted to recreate it) - were also multiculti.

It was funny when in 1918 Poland regained independence and meanwhile the west invented nationalism and some people in the region (mostly the poor uneducated ones not the elites) started to want nation states. And here are Polish elites ecstatic they can finally recreate PLC after 123 years and these ungrateful peasants don't want to be "liberated" :-)

Fortunately Poles learnt that lesson and we don't "liberate" anybody anymore. Russians seem to be in a similar position right now. It will hurt them a lot to learn nobody wants their empire anymore :-)

Sober people don't say crap like this.

No. Long to explain. But in a few words - Finnish politicians spent 80 yrs to "straighten" mutual relations and turn it into a peaceful and pragmatic way, while Poland, once MI-6 got full access to "promote" their sleeping agents (some in second generation) into power make Poland to start to act on a principle "the worse is the better".


Basic is never changed, Denazification, demilitarisation, right to use Russian language and freedom of Orthodox Church (all churches and monasteries, forcefully captured by uniates, to be returned to Orthodox parishes, together wit what belongs to this parishes).

There is more goals, but this is goals that can be reached by different ways...

I meant national interests in cooperation, trade, and other benefits from not being hostile to Russia...

That Finns were smart and Poles were idiots ... that's Step 2.

Look, tankist, every country has a role to play in the theatre of this world. The roles were assigned by God and apparently Russia and Poland are supposed to be enemies. That's a bummer but what can we do against the will of God? Nothing. That's life.


He, he. I don't support the war but this goal is poetic. :)


Understandable. I have no idea why people have problems with this. It's the same in Samogitia--f*cking fascists don't like Polish street names, Polish surnames etc. :-/


This might be a problem, because when Ukraine is "demilitarised" your rulers won't stop there, and then Poland and Russia will be enemies not only in Internet memes and jokes but also on the battlefield. Better to sign this peace agreement that the blonde orange-skinned genius wants so much.

Unless of course God has another idea... oh, well.

So Katyn and Auschwitz were part of God's plan. I got it.

Of course they were. Why they had to happen--this I don't know. God's thoughts are not our thoughts, neither are our ways His ways, and all that.

I heard that Putin offered solution - Chinese peacemakers. ;) Almost completely neutral (I don't believe that con masters that sold Motor Sich factory in Zaporozhye to Chinese company and then nationalized it without compensation will feel itself comfortable with armed Chinese guys on the streets, but it is not our problem).

Was on a super long flight today. Decided to buy a book on Amazon, for Kindle reading on my phone.

Book is called "Bagration 1944: The Great Soviet Offensive". Written by a British guy named Prit Buttar, and published in 2025. $14 for the Kindle version.

As far as Eastern Front history books written in English go... not a terribly interesting book. Probably will not read more books from this guy, but since I had read pretty much every other English language book on Operation Bagration, I figured I had to give this one a chance.

What I appreciated in this book, was the attention given to staff level deliberations at Stavka. It's pretty sobering reading, for someone that is a fan of the modern Russian army, and who wishes it well in Ukraine.

Here's an interesting excerpt:

"A consistent pattern of Red Army procedure was an analysis of operations soon after they came to an end. These analyses almost inevitably suffered from several flaws. Sometimes, they failed to identify the issues that lay behind setbacks, or attributed these setbacks entirely to one or two identified issues without looking in detail for all possible causes.

Secondly, the ability of the Soviet system to remedy the identified issues proved to be very limited. Repeatedly, the same problems were identified but it seemed as if little changed.

Reconnaissance of German positions was often inadequate, hampered considerably by the lack of specialist reconnaissance aircraft. When attacks began, coordination between artillery, infantry, and armour rapidly deteriorated (and on occasion was lacking from the very outset). Tanks became separated from infantrymen and neither was able to make any progress in the absence of the other. The ability to call in fresh artillery fire against stubborn positions was limited and often impossible, because of either poor communications or inadequate stocks of artillery ammunition."

F*cking hell....

We spent the years between 1941 and 1944 learning how to war properly, and then successfully forgot all of it, in the period between 1960 and 2022.

Now we are relearning again... what our grandfathers learned. Depressing.

Another passage, painful for a modern Russian observer to read:

"In the First World War, the artillery arm of the Russian Army was in many respects the only part of the army that functioned at a standard that was comparable to the armies of other Great Powers, but once the initial mobile phase of operations was replaced by trench warfare, there was growing dependence upon sheer weight of shelling to overcome trench lines and fortifications, as was the case with the armies of France, Britain, and Germany. When attacks failed, such as the Russian attack near Lake Naroch in 1916, the assumption was almost automatic that it might have succeeded if more guns, with more ammunition, had been available."

Yes! More guns! More shells! That'll break the front for sure!

«ШОЙГУ - ГДЕ СНАРЯДЫ?!»

Our grandfathers learned in the 1940s, that you can turn a place into a lunar landscape, and it still wouldn't dislodge the Germans. For some f*cking reason, we had to relearn this lesson between 2022 and 2023.

"As had been the case in the First World War, there was a tendency to assume that bombardments needed to be heavier if they were to suppress German defences effectively, but by early 1944 it was increasingly clear that this was not going to be sufficient. The volume of fire that could be delivered was now immense, but failure to identify German positions properly and to allocate appropriate weapons to engage those targets was a far greater factor than lack of gun barrels and ammunition. Hence the great importance placed upon reconnaissance in the last weeks of preparation for Bagration."

So, in a nutshell, between the years of 1941 and 1944, the Red Army suffered from:

1) Poor reconnaissance
2) Overreliance on artillery fires
3) Poor coordination between armor, air, and infantry
4) Inflexible planning

The Germans on the other hand, suffered from:

1) Hitler's increasing micromanagement. Most especially the creation of constant "Festungs", which grinded up German manpower unnecessarily, instead of allowing them to perform the elastic defense that is their forte. Bakhmut? Soledar? Severodonetsk, anyone?

2) Hitler's obsession with creating new units, instead of reinforcing existing ones. Luftwaffe Field Divisions, Waffen SS Divisions, various Feldherrhalle Panzergrenadiers, etc. Remind anybody of a special someone in Kiev that also likes to create a new brigade every month?

3) And a consequent catastrophe with manpower. All the veterans who knew how to fight were destroyed in various Stalingrads and Kursks. Instead of letting the remnants train the fresh soldiers who were being sent from Germany, they let them flounder along with strengths of only 30-40% of nominal authorized strength. Meanwhile, the fresh and inexperienced divisions would get completely mauled after their first few engagements. In the end, there were no men left in Germany to do anything at all, except wait for Soviet forces to arrive in Berlin.

So, dear Polish friends - if you are discussing these days how to ensure your defense...

Ensure that:

1) That politicians do not set objectives (like Zelensky's orders to fight to the death in Soledar, Bakhmut, Avdeevka, Mariupol, etc). Instead, allow the military to decide what is appropriate and when. Land can be won back, but manpower cannot be replaced.

2) Training, training, training. As Suvorov said - "hard in training, easy in battle". While you have the time, spend it exercising. The Nazis were exercising throughout the late 1930s.

3) Information Warfare - you can't fight, if the people don't want to. You must work seriously at ideology - like the Pentagon does through Hollywood. Raise a generation of patriots, through a planned and systemic approach. Dying for country - must be sweet and seemly.

I have a better idea...

Dear Polish friends, repeat after me: We love you, Russia.

If it's too hard, practice: We give up...with your hands up...

Should polish soldiers know this phrase in German, or Russian will be more than enough?

The best language for jsuch occassions is French. No translation would be necessary.

I like music. But this is the best kind to my ears:

The EU throws an epic tantrum as Trump meets with Putin
Brussels has been relegated to running behind Trump, pleading to let Zelensky have any say in a Russia-Ukraine war resolution

No!

The terms will be announced in Washington and Moscow.

Take a number, sit down, shut up, and wait like everybody else...

More great music to my ears...

While the EU indulges itself in rhetorical games, Trump has dropped all pretexts of serving any interests but America's first, and isn't following any agenda beyond trying to wrap things up with Russia in Ukraine and to score some economic wins in the process.

Brussels has had more than three years to do the same. Instead, it kept repeating the mantra that Kiev had to win on the battlefield. There were no other options, it said.

Some morons on PF actually said that Ukraine was winning...I am not holding my breath for "Oops..."

One more...



Azov Offensive Ends in Catastrophic Losses - Brigade Loses 90% of Troops in Three Days

...and a comment:

These were the Bandera Nazi Azov units that Zelensky said would wipe out the Russian forces..he forgot one thing, there is nothing Russia likes more than hunting Nazis and they are very good at it! Keep up the good work Russia.. liberate the territories.

The sooner, the better...I want to see Moscow and the metro before I see Jesus...

Just one day after Golden Cow caves in and already Bobko is lecturing us on military strategy ?

Don't know how French will serve, but definitely Latgalian must be avoided - "Mes atsasacejam" sound somewhat close to offer to make blowjob. ;)

Neither would I as he's chickened out yet again. I presume he was talking about secondary sanctions on countries buying Russian oil but I'd say that's unlikely to happen now. Plus, those sanctions would likely upend the global economy.


Course he has!! Didn't expect anything less....


Humiliating and disgusting.


You forgot Beautiful meeting ;)

@Torq
And Russia would not be bogged down in Ukraine without the US weapons and training that was provided since 2014. No US weapons and Russia rolls through Kiev. Again, I appreciate the bravery, but Russia can mobilize a million men in a few months, it would take Europe years. Russia is out producing the entire west in weapons right now including the US, and it would take a decade to come close to that production exclusive to European abilities. You really think that every day Americans gaf about Europe or how Europe see's them? If you do, then you dont understand the average American.

Raging nonsense.

Poland alone can moblilize around 550,000 troops at the moment and in a couple of years it will be about a million (we are training 100,000 reservists annualy). Poland alone. Now add Turkey, France, Germany, Britain, Finland, Sweden and the rest of European NATO.


So what? Somebody has to use those weapons and Russia's manpower pool is puny compared to Europe's. And to use all those weapons, like artillery shells, it takes time, and Russia would be wiped out in 3-4 months if they tried to take on European NATO. I have no idea why your pants are so full of brown substance - it's incomprehensible for me. Just give us the nukes, so we can control the escalation ourselves and go watch some f*cking baseball and relax.


There are extremely few things in this world that I give less f*ck about than about the average American (Indonesian handball league perhaps... perhaps). What does that have to do with anything anyway?

So your military installations will be first and guaranteed target for a strike. Russia have much less relatives in Poland, compared to ukraine. ;) And no at all in UK... So, threshold to press that red button will be quite different for same threat from different opponents.

And vice versa - what do you think we would aim our rockets at? San Marino? :)

I told you before, tankist: 3 minutes for us is enough to smoke a cigarette, have a goodbye sex with our wives (even twice in case of Pawian) and fire all our missiles on Russia. What a way to go! Much better than watching this entire sh*tshow.

And how many warheads someone will "give" you?

Realistically, from different sources we will procure about 400 warheads with top-notch means of delivery. That should be more than enough to deter Russia from using nuclear weapons and in conventional war it wouldn't even be a victory, it would be epic b*tch owning.

Of course, Russia can still go crazy and use their nuclear weapons against Poland. In such case:

- Poland is destroyed completely: no people, only desert covered with glass,
- about 200-250 of Polish warheads fall on most populated Russian cities; Russia survives but most of her population perishes.

Russian strategists will look at the world and at their country in this scenario and say: Yes! It was totally worth it - at least those annoying Psheks are not there anymore!

Unfortunately for Russian strategists Poles would survive anyway - we spread our people all over the f*cking world. There is almost no place in the world without Poles, so there will always be millions upon millions left to annoy you. Such is life. :)

Two old Poles are talking:
- Do you remember the movie 'Four Tank-Men and a Dog'?
- Of course I remember it, it's a true story. Back then, they didn't show much truth about Poles.
- What do you think would have happened if we had had two such tanks?
- Then we would have won the war without the Russians, and not only the Germans, but also the Japanese. Can you imagine Polish tanks in the center of defeated Tokyo, both of them...
- No, I think the Russians knew all this from the very beginning, and that's why they only gave us one tank.

Nonsense since russia has always had more nazis per capita than Ukraine.

And no one is going to fall for demilitarization (so you sickfvkks can invade again?)


russian was never 'banned' you gullible vatnik... one of the Ukrainian tv channels on my cable line up is in russian.... Zelenskyy himself barely spoke Ukrainian when he was elected

russian barbarity and psychotic violence has turned many against the language... and the russian orthodox church is widely seen as part of the espionage system of the russian government...

So really stupid stuff.... what russian demands aren't retarded?