Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 29

Unlike r*SSia, the rest of the world is skilled at learning from the past.


Why was it a 'humiliation'? The French and Spanish have lost more wars than anyone cares to count and both countries are still proud.


More to do with that clot Woodrow Wilson than anything, that and the western democracies allowing them to rearm. For r*SSia, that boat has sailed.

Your country owes Ukraine at least a trillion to rebuild the damage to buildings and infrastructure as well of course as the loss of human life, none of it their fault and all of it r*SSia's.

Why not do the decent thing? Stop being the bad guys. Isn't your federation big enough?

In 1918-1919 the German Revolution overthrew their Kaiser.

Workers' and soldiers' councils appeared all across Germany - modeled on the Russian "soviets". This was followed by Communist uprisings in Berlin, Bremen, and the Ruhr and elsewhere.

The rather short-lived Bavarian Soviet Republic was declared in Munich...

Lenin himself was obsessive about the necessity of Communist revolution in a developed industrial state - none more so than Germany. His writings are proof of how much time and energy he spent thinking about Germany. Poland was supposed to be merely a stepping stone in that direction - but then it surprisingly managed to stop the Red Army.

Because they had no reliable military, the German government relied on the Freikorps to crush the socialists. They crushed the revolts, ended the Bavarian Soviet Republic, and fought socialist militias all across the country.

Most future big-wig Nazis started out as fighters in the Freikorps.

By the 1930s, a lot of them became convinced that Germany's primary threat was "Judeo-Bolshevism". They were convinced that the Jews controlled Bolshevism, and that a liberal democratic order was too weak to stop it. An "authoritarian nationalist" was needed to allow Germany to survive...

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So yes - problems in Russia did lead to the rise of Hitler, and eventually WW2.

It was still Woodrow Wilson's fault. He scuppered the very sensible plan to crown Kaiser Bill's son. He was hugely popular and would have provided stability and been a much loved figurehead. No Austrian Corporals to rally round.


The young Mr Hohenzollern would have been ideal.

Nah, it's still on the horizon.
Russian defeat did worked. Multiple countries did it. From Poles in 1921 to Afghan in 1989, Russia only own when helped by the west. At the winter war, if Germans where not blocking help to Finland, Finland could have not having to evacuate Karelia.

Russian defeats :

Crimean War (1853-1856)
Russo-Japanese War (1904-1905)
Polish-Soviet War (1921)
Soviet-Afghan War (1989)

All fought without western help. Russian notable victories

Hitler(1945) - Had western help
Napoleon(1812) - Had western weakening Napeleon.

Russia is fvcked part 225,Putin is fvcked and so is Kaliningrad!

A small country cannot. Chechnya's population is smaller than that of Poland's West Pomeranian Voivodeship (and was half that at tbe turn of century), so it would be unwise to expect them to defeat Russia.

A medium-sized country, on the other hand, is perfectly capable of defeating a larger one, and this - as Korvinus pointed out - has happened on several occasions throughout history.

At the risk of repeating myself, we need to make a serious commitment to diplomacy in the war in Ukraine. Neither side is likely to achieve a decisive victory, so prolonging the conflict is pointless.

No, no - you misunderstand me.

It can certainly happen, and has happened before - but it must not be presented as such. Otherwise it leads to later rounds of revanchist attacks by the bigger "loser".

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Russia cannot be seen as having simply accepted Zelensky's offer. It has to "take" more than was offered. Through some public theater, Zelensky must be seen as having his arms twisted into some involuntary concessions.

Russia also needs to maintain credibility.

If during 2022 Istanbul they asked for Crimea and Donbass only, then when Zelensky refused - the government had to show him why this was a mistake. They did this by demanding then in addition Kherson, Zaporozhye, etc.

Then, if Zelensky is seen as resisting the "Anchorage Understandings", and refusing to do a voluntary withdrawal - then Russia again has to show him why this was a mistake.

Otherwise the credibility evaporates. It emerges suddenly that MAYBE ZELENSKY WAS RIGHT TO RESIST the Alaska proposals, and holding on, fighting harder, until a better deal was proferred.

Every time Zelensky refuses to do something, Russia has to make him regret it. This is simply an automatic derivative of the process. Otherwise the threats become toothless.

This is why I'm saying Zelensky has to be more clever, and give Russia the off ramp it is implicitly begging for. Handover the small remnants of the Donbass, and let Russia crow about enforcing outcomes.

He would still be a hero to most Ukrainians. Sure there will be some grumbling, but he would have been able to start the reconstruction of his country months or years earlier, and most importantly stop the bloodshed.

By insisting on a total and utter humiliation of Russia (which is emotionally understandable), he pays a higher and higher price - and risks gambling the entire hand away.

Why?


Donbas.

Would r*SSia give territory to another country who asked for it?

@Bobko

If you put it this way, it makes much more sense.
Kinda like with Winter War - Finland considered defending their independence to be a victory for them, and Russia could brag about territorial gains.

Good thinking! First, skillful diplomacy and allowing both sides some appearances of victory, and then peace and rebuilding of mutual trust.

*fingers crossed*

About r*SSian territorial gains???

The flags in PL would certainly look different with a blue band added and after all, Варшава was once r*SSian territory.

You know... because Ukrainians die in this war too?

If Russia is a human-hating, murder cult - then Ukraine is supposedly a place motivated by the good.

They can let Mordor rot itself out from the inside, while they build on the remaining territory a new Finland - that will make all Muscovites turn green with envy. No?


The way Russia gifted land to Ukraine, Poland, Belarus - you mean? Or the time that Russia let 14 republics gain independence without a single civilian fatality?

About the end of pointless bloodshed. Or are you ready to fight until the last Ukrainian?

What's worse for Ukrainians - losing some lands (which, in all fairness, were never Ukrainian core territory) or prolong the suffering of civilian population and lead their country to ruin?

Orc propagandists spout that line.

The defence of their country is up to Ukraine with the help of her allies..


Or r*SSian. Isn't r*SSia big enough already?

You are wrong.The question should be, are Russians prepared to fight for the last Russian?I don't think they are.But Ukrainians are!
This pointless bloodshed was started by Russia..... end of!

A Brit lecturing on illegal occupation is quite a choice, considering your national museums are basically international crime scenes.

Indeed, it takes a remarkable amount of historical amnesia to condemn Russia while living in a country literally built on slavery and stolen treasure, all while still holding onto 14 overseas territories.

You are right, and the thing is, Milo, their population stats of 145 million or whatever are off. Very off.

Their life expectancy is falling and their functional life expectancy (i.e. when they get decrepit) is very low indeed. They age fast. Also, 48% of men and 24% of women are heavy drinkers. Add that to their massive brain drain of the more functional r*SSians which has grown hugely since the war started, and there aren't that many of them at all. One more mobilisation and they''ll just be left with the dross.

r*SSia, land of health and prosperity. At least Putler has his golden toilet and Lenin is still looking fresh.

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Russia may have to get serious about increasing population if the war continues. they have good relations with China, India, Vietnam, and North Korea, but would russians accept them as their own or they would just take advantage of them. Russians aren't into welcoming migrants from other countries.

God is separate from your creator!
You have a personal creator that gave you spirituality. It comes from you.

Russians and Ukrainians are brothers with the same faith!
That power is coming from the ancestor planet! (which you are confused to think that is synonymous with God the creator)
They want to confuse you with fear. Those are the politics of power and control.
Look at the Eritreans and Ethiopians also the same race and faith.
And there is a civil war.
That is how badly discombobulated the Eastern Orthodox Church is!

Many churches have been destroyed during this illegal invasion, many deliberately

North Nigerian church leaders hold military rank and have blessed bombs and missiles that were used to kill innocent kids in their beds

That's a particularly dumb take propagated by fashoniable historians.

Did Italy and Ethiopia share a border, intermingled for thousands of years, virtually the same language and culture, share cousins, in-laws etc geographically, with the elite attending the same universities and doing business deals together for generations?

It's more Cain and Abel really.

You omitted the failed military crackdown of the independence movement in Lithuania.

Let?? Let??? They weren't r*SSia and you weren't in a position to stop them. You are trying now despite having signed a treaty respecting Ukraine's independence.


And constant attempts by r*SSia to undermine and control their neighbours ever since. Including the illegal and unprovoked invasion of Ukraine that you are now losing. Your country invaded Chechnya too, in order to get their oil.


True Joe, however all Christians are. Non-Christians are also brothers too.


Race is nothing, however the troubles in that part of the world aren't about religion; they're more about different communities competing for economic resourses and the Amhara and Tigreyans losing elections (and status/privilege) to the Oroma, a previously disadvantaged group. And yes, r*SSia is sirring the pot there too.

What really unites us is the common purpose of bringing forth the third srussian collapse (1917, 1991, 202?). We hope the third one will finally kill the beast.

... and what then, genius? Twelve bantustans, each with nuclear weapons?

Russia doesn't have to collapse. Poland needs to have sh*tloads of nukes. Then peace will reign in the universe.

When Russia becomes a normal, civil country I will stop wishing it ill. Not going to happen though.


Nukes aren't real, it's all a fabrication by the jews. There's definitely something "psyop"ish about nukes. And the long term failure of nuclear power across the whole world for no apparent reason is also suspicious as hell.

I frankly don't see how a civilized country like the US where the top 1% owns 80% of the wealth and power - is a better country than Russia or some African country where a king rules. Unless you mean Poland or some Scandinavian country, which seem to balance these things much better than the "most powerful" countries, but in time it may become the same.

Have you ever heard of Low Background Steel?

It is steel made prior to the explosion of the first atomic weapons. It comes almost exclusively from shipwrecks.

It's necessary, because unlike all modern steel, it is not contaminated with radionuclides like Cobalt-60. Its uses are primarily for sensitive scientific equipment, like particle detectors.

China got in trouble with the UK, because its companies were extracting low background steel from the shipwrecks of the HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse in the waters of Malaysia - in effect desecrating war graves.

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If nukes aren't real, why are people diving to the bottom of the ocean to extract uncontaminated steel?

Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel?wprov=sfti1

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If you still don't believe nukes are real, you can always travel to the former Semipalatinsk Test Range in Kazakhstan, and see for yourself the melted ground and the crater lakes. Probably the same is possible in Nevada.

Why not see it in Hiroshima or Nagasaki? Perhaps for the same reason why people will never ever find the legendary US flag on the moon.

Dirty bombs (think Chernobyl) are certainly still real. Gotta keep that cancer cure suppressed for a reason.
But a magic wipeout bomb wont come for us.

Are you kidding?

The tens of thousands of survivors from Hiroshima and Nagasaki are some of the most carefully medically studied populations. Their health outcomes has been followed for decades. There is clear evidence of radiation induced cancers and other conditions that are consistent with receiving a large dose of radiation.

There are shadows of people, etched into the sidewalk - what other type of weapon can cause that?

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Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

What can you show, that disproves that atomic weapons were used against those two cities?