True. Good that you mentioned that. See, for mafia, Yugoslavia never ended. Business flourished. But, nothing romantic there actually. If you dig deep enough you would come to the CIA, KGB, Mosad, Mi6, etc organizations in mafia hierarchy. Behind them you would found free masons and kabbalists and behind them few magnates, some of the pharmaceutical industry, some bankers, some of weapon industry, for sure few representatives of main religion organizations, etc, etc. That if you go vertically. If you go horizontally, you would also found Al Qaeda, ISIS, other mafia bosses, all kind of maniacs. Sure, police, too.
All are needed to maintain chaotic humanity.
Am i now enough progressive in discussion, InPolska? Or, am i drunk?
:} Dougpol scratches head in perplexed fashion, wondering who actually did. Beavers?
Page 1360, line 1 onwards.
1 Could you tell us, please, was one side responsible for the escalation in
2 terms of violence and demonstrations of force?
3 A. Both sides were responsible, but to my knowledge, the Serb side
4 began using force first.
Crow, I completely understand why the Serbs felt threatened and somewhat terrified. But you can't claim that Croatians were the aggressors - they didn't start the war. For what it's worth, I agree that the Serbs of Croatia had every right to be angry and to take up arms - they were being forced out of Yugoslavia against their will, even when the Constitution of 1974 had the concept of the people AND the republics being equally sovereign in Yugoslavia.
It's worth remembering that the RSK and the Serbs only lost popular support by their actions towards Croatia. Had they carried on with the Log Revolution and simply defended RSK territory, the situation might have been dramatically different.
Fascinating stuff. I must admit I didn't know about the role of the Croatian special police being deployed to the city of Knin but that doesn't excuse the might of the old Yugoslav army being deployed against civilians. Deffo a war crime there in Krajina. Respect to Mr Bilic though for his full co-operation and contrition. It's a pity that other noted Serbs haven't done the right thing as he did.
Fascinating stuff. I must admit I didn't know about the role of the Croatian special police being deployed to the city of Knin
Yep, Croatia always tries to pretend that they were entirely innocent and it was just Serbian aggression, but the truth is always a bit more murky. From everything I've read, it seems that Croatia very much intended to reduce the rights of the Serbian minority - Serbs were getting fired simply because they were Serbian, for instance, and Tudjman implemented some very clumsy language policy that simply offended Serbs, even though they mostly used Croatian and not Serbian.
but that doesn't excuse the might of the old Yugoslav army being deployed against civilians. Deffo a war crime there in Krajina. Respect to Mr Bilic though for his full co-operation and contrition. It's a pity that other noted Serbs haven't done the right thing as he did.
That's what I still can't understand - had they simply blocked off majority-Serb territory (Knin was what, 90% Serb or even higher?) and made it clear to Croatia that they would defend the territory while also making it clear to Croats living in these territories that they could live freely and normally, things might have been dramatically different. I can't imagine anyone would have supported Croatian attempts to recover majority-Serb areas, and they could have stayed within Yugoslavia without much complaint.
If you've got time, it's worth reading through the next day of the testimony - you can see how he actually attempted to put some order into the RSK, including establishing a proper defence command, but Milosevic simply didn't want it.
That's what I still can't understand - had they simply blocked off majority-Serb territory
Still waters run deep....? And who's to say that in a further couple of generations it wont blow up again? If one is not from the Balkans it is impossible to comprehend, and old scores create life-held scars.
Cliches apart, the Dayton Accord surely needs continuous ratification to keep the peace?
Albanian (Shiftar) hate on Poles is exceptional. Hate coming from the general Shiftar hate on Slavs and everything Slavic
Here are the few images from this years football match held in Albania (Shiftaria) between Polish Legia Warsaw and Albanian (Shiftar) Kukes.
Ondrej Duda, the Legia midfielder, was hit with an object thrown from the home stands just after Legia taken a 2-1 lead. Then, instead to react against provokers, Shiftar police moved against Polish fans, in order the make them quiet. It was 10 Shiftar policeman against 1 Legia Warshaw fan. Police then issued morbid brutality on Polish fans. One can hardly say who was more crule on Poles, Shiftar police or fans and even Kukes players.
Give two reasons why Albanians should love Serbs and other Slavs? I'll bet Ablanains could find many reasons why they don't. Every nation have got their bêtes noires, some nationality or ethnic group they dislike and/or make fun of. For you Serbs it's the Ałbanians whom you call "Shiftars" (never heard of that before you started using it). There is also no love lost between Slovaks and Hungarians. (A Slovak friend from uni days used to say: A typical Hungarian recipes starts with the words: first steal 10 eggs...) Also Romanians and Hungarians have been mutual rivals and foes. In the spirit of your football incident, every nation can find faults, blunders and gaffes their pet foes have actually or allegdly committed. Such is life.
Give two reasons why Albanians should love Serbs and other Slavs?
good question, even philosophically. Let me answer with few new questions.
How could Shiftars love Serbs and other Slavs when Shiftars were fist of Ottoman Turkish invasion onto Europe, Slavic world and Serbs? How could Shiftars love Serbs and other Slavs when everything what Serbs and other Slavs do to liberate, save themselves, to live decent lives coming in collision with Shiftar interests that perfectly overlap with interests of extreme Muslims, Anglos and Germanics, who all seek to profit on Slavic misery? How could Shiftars love Serbs and other Slavs when, Serbs and Slavs stays as obstacle to Shiftars plans for Greater Albania (Shiftaria), what is in any sense unacceptable to Serbs and Slavs for cultural, strategic and other reasons?
I'll bet Ablanains could find many reasons why they don't.
you mean Shiftars? my point
Every nation have got their bêtes noires, some nationality or ethnic group they dislike and/or make fun of. For you Serbs it's the Ałbanians whom you call "Shiftars" (never heard of that before you started using it).
This comment of yours is just proof that you enter in discussion about politics without being informed of elementary things.
Shiftars is how `Albanians` call themselves. Its Serbian version of it, in accordance with pronounce logic of Serbian language. Original Albanian is sort of `Shquitary and Shiptar` (after all, go google that). On the south of Serbia, i personally heard how Shiftars call themselves `Shiptar`.
Confusion was introduced by the western Europe in last 100 years that insit to label Shiftars as Albanians, what is problem to itself considering that is word `Alba` old Slavic word for `white` (Albania - Whiteland). It was land in deepest past populated with Slavs then came the Ottomans and Shiftars with them. So, in last 100 years, west of Europe doing maximal efforts to Europize Shiftars and even invent new Albanian nation from Shiftars that greatly assimilated local Slavs, especially in Malesia- region that in middle age still was officially Serbian (Slavic). But, its not enough. West of Europe and Islamic league helping to Shiftars to take Metohija and Kosovo and many other Slavic regions.
It is duty of all Slavs that of Shiftars speak as of Shiftars, after all, as they call themselves. Let`s not allow to west of Europe to modify Slavic history for the sake of their interests.
As usual you are simply lying. In Albanian, "Shqiptar" means "Albanian." The words 'shiptar' and 'shiftar' are racist slurs used by Serbs. The fact that you are allowed to use racist slurs here is a disgrace but sadly very much to be expected at PF.
Include Poles and Poland into this discussion, everyone please
ah, you won`t ruin my nice moment of relaxation. But, for the sake of info for my Polish sisters and brothers, i would make an effort. i think that Poles deserve to know
So, i would simple, stop to eat for a moment (just for the moment), then,...... take my mouse,.... thaaats it.... enter word `Shqiptar` in my google search,... and here it is.... > now, i would just pres it... > liiiink > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shqiptar > let me just copy paste >
Harry, i expect apology from you, if you even know what that mean. If
Jerzy Haszczyński, Polish journalist, reporter and chief of `Polskie Rzeczpospolitej`, about some strategic aspects of plans for Greater Albania >
Wielka Albania, wielki problem (in English: Greater Albania, great problem)
enter word `Shqiptar` in my google search,... and here it is.... > now, i would just pres it... > liiiink > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shqiptar > let me just copy paste >
Here in Poland, just as in your country and the rest of the world, that word is a slur. rsdb.org/race/albanians en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_ethnic_slurs_by_ethnicity/old
A better test, would be that if you were walking down a street here in Poland and you saw a Albanian walking towards you, we both know you wouldn't dare to call him "Shifter". Because we both know he would most probably kick you senseless. I'd happily hold his coat while he did that and then buy him several Polish beers as a symbol of Albanian-Polish friendship and solidarity.
I'd happily hold his coat while he did that and then buy him several Polish beers as a symbol of Albanian-Polish friendship and solidarity.
just wait and you would see. Shiftars are great strategic problem to Poland. Mortal wound in fabric of the restoration of Poland`s power. So, they would go down, for i am sure, Poland would refuse to die in silence.
At a time when Poland pledge to form Intermarium as Her final solution to the pressure from the west and east, Poland founds that Shiftar plans for Greater Albania (grabing the land from Serbia and Montenegro) directly cut Poland`s aces to the warm seas. If come to it, it would prove to be mortal wound for Poland on the long run.
Germany controls Dalmatia (Croatian part of Adriatic), with full loyalty by Croatia and in any global deals in case with long term borders among civilizations, Dalmatia is last peace of land that would Germany (EU) deliver to the influence of Poland (ie Intermarium). Black Sea of what is now still Ukraine, would be in long term deal among civilizations, taken by Russia (ie Eurasian Union), which is also desperate for warm waters.
Analyzing Her chances, Poland would found that Her only solution demands support to Serbians, so that via loyal Serbs, Poland can assure its access to Adriatic and secure its connection to Greece (and Greek warm seas), potentially, on the long term, also part of Intermarium. At the same time, by contemplating on problem, Poland would found that `Serbian connection` to the warm waters actually represent in fact traditional realm of oldest Polish Kings, which Serbians defended for centuries, against overwhelming Turkish/Islamic and Germanic foes. Plus, by defending Serbian lands, Poland would all the time have legality on its side and, historical justice.
So, Harry, all logic suggests that would Poland, not only support Serbians but, if necessary, even military intervene on the behalf of Serbs. It is only what Poland can do if wants to secure its survival and to prosper. And when Poland hit hard into the project of Greater Albania, realizing what could be price if lose, Poland would hit with all power that is left in Her.
Crow, from this post, please refer to people from Albania as Albanians. Thank you.
Harry, what you want to tell exactly? Do you maybe consider tragically died Polish president Lech Kaczyński to be racist moron? Kaczyński also considered Kosovo to be part of Serbia. Or maybe you consider Vaclav Klaus, former Czech president, to be racist moron? He also consider Kosovo to be part of Serbia.
its far from finished. You`ll see. As Serbian president Tomislav said today, recognition of Kosovo independence by any Serbian government would lead to Civil War in Serbia. So, his message is clear. Serbia won`t abandon itself and coalition around Serbia is stronger then coalition behind Albanians. Even, no matter NATO and EU, Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Bulgarians or Greeks would never fight and wage war against Serbians. They would actually support them. And not only them. Serbians would liberate Kosovo and Metohija. Serbian victory would mark the moment when Slavs stooped to retreat and when ended era of Drang Nach Osten.
Spot Serbian opposition >
A YOUNG ALBANIAN JIHADIST SPEAKS OF THE FITNAH IN SYRIA
Albanian Mujahideen In Syria
Ptaku - Kosowo jest Serbskie(NaRa)
Pozdrav Poljacima iz Srbije. Together we are stronger!
Poljacima? Crow - what case is this? It look to me like instrumental but maybe it's dative. and dual number? In Polish the dual has been retained in vestigial form in words that come in pairs: rękoma, oczyma, uszyma (the latter is rare).
Polish eqivalent pozdrowić would require the accusative: Pozdrów Polaków.
Everybody has enough your wars Crow, it's been way too long. All these countries have problems of their own and I can assure you that all they or any country would do if you started another war in the balcans is kick your behind to stone age. FFS just leave it alone man, they're living in their home you're living in your home everybody seems to understand that except you.
Everybody has enough your wars Crow, it's been way too long.
see how you easily sunk in propaganda invented by western Europe and USA, in their deals with Islamic league.
what wars? Serbia didn`t wage any war. Not a single (NATO bombing in 1999 was only direct Serbia`s open conflict with NATO but even that conflict wasn`t started by Serbia). If Serbia was involved directly in any war, i assure you, map of region would look different. In reality, only local Serbs in Bosnia and in Krajina were involved in Civil War (in former Yugoslavia) directly, while unfortunately, Serbia didn`t do much to help them, for sure due to political reasons. But i now understand calculations of Serbian academic elite and that is- what local Serbs lost in this Civil War, defeated by overwhelming foes, Serbia would regain by diplomatic and cultural victory in some cases, in some cases by the brute force, when the time is right.
After all, Civil War in former Yugoslavia happened because west of Europe wanted that blood, first Germany and then rest of the western Europe supported by USA and all of them in deal with Islamic league (Turkey and Saudia Arabia on the first place). So, first victims of those conflicts were always local Serbs. Then they organized themselves and accomplish much but, NATO/Islamic league/EU openly sided with aggressors, sending troops and bashing image about Serbs in mass media.
In case with Kosovo and Metohija (two regions), it was conflict initiated by the rebellion of local Albanians sponsored by NATO/Islamic league/EU. Rebellion started by the terrorist actions and then turned into guerrilla and open war.
Reason for every one of these conflicts was to minimize healthy Slavic factor (Serbians) and to support those in the region who are pro-Islamic or pro-Germanic oriented. Serbs were obstacle to it and they were attacked without mercy, in open war, in mass media. But, Serbians didn`t say their last.
What i can tell to Poles is that Serbians can`t be blamed for these conflicts. Serbs defended themselves. From region to region, other South Slavs supported Serbs or as it is case in our time, South Slavs from many regions (Bosnia, Herzegovina, Montenegro) of former Yugoslavia wants to rejoin with Serbia now. Even mainly Muslim regions. Other South Slavic regions such are Slovenia (solely Catholics) and Macedonia (Orthodox Slavs) harry to improve relations with Serbia. It is global regional process and represent biggest proof that Serbian policy was just and right. 25 million people here speaks Serbian language, in region where you have approximately 12 million Serbs.
It is duty of any Serbian to inform Poles whats going on and that those who sponsored hostility against Serbians, tomorrow would, without any doubts, sponsor war against Poland. And Poles do have all historical reasons to trust to Serbians and have all historical reasons not to trust to western Europe, USA and Islamic league.
All these countries have problems of their own and I can assure you that all they or any country would do if you started another war in the balcans is kick your behind to stone age.
don`t say that. Serbia is not Syria. But better look what force arises to protect Syria from western European and USA meddling and, Slavs within EU and NATO already refusing to dies for western European and USA magnates. Now, in case of that serious meddling of USA and western Europe, in Serbia, NATO and EU would already collapse and Russian and Chinese soldiers would remodel map of Europe, this time, most probably supported by Hungary, Czeska, Slovakia, Poland, Greece and Serbia, of course.
nope.... considering that you must be English, let me tell you something. Serbians designated Britain as the main force that is behind all their troubles, that is Britain that great mastermind of the Slavic misery. Serbs would now repay the debt to English from time of Ottoman occupation of Serbian lands when Britain collaborated with Turks prolonging that way Turkish presence in Europe. Serbians work against Britain in every opportunity and they would effectively expel British influence from every Slavic country. i am pretty sure that would Britain learn great lesson and experience real regret for its evil ways. Let Britain live in interdependance with Saudi Arabia and Turkey and just f*** off from Slavic world.
WUEM ENCEHA - KOSOVO JE SRBIJA! (gośc. MAYON WD) // prod. FeRu
Now when Poles understand what is in the game everything would be more easily. Racowie- military elite of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth aren`t alone.