Ukraine Crisis... Poland... and the way i see it

if we Slavs and Eastern Europeans in general are competent enough and, let me tell this- also responsible enough, then why not?

Every open question from the past should be matter of the dialogue. Even, not only damage dealt by communists. If we are wise we would organize open public discussions of historians and wouldn`t allow politicians (of any kind), to have final word.

"The North Atlantic Treaty Organization is back, thanks in large part to Russian President Vladimir Putin. His invasion and annexation of Crimea and his sustained aggression against eastern Ukraine have revived NATO, imbuing the bloc with the sense of mission it lost after the collapse of the Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War. Ukraine is the primary beneficiary of this revival. In effect, Putin, an inveterate NATO opponent, has walked into a strategic trap of his own making."

america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/7/nato-ukraine-vladimirputincrimeaeuropeunitedstates.html

you know this whole Ukrainian conflict thing? yeah it's pointless and a waste of money for everyone. All it does is spread hatred. I like Russians and Ukrainians who are normal. Only I hate Bandera (and anyone who supports this ideology) and the sad history of violence. I don't even hate their politicians. what I dislike is this Nato/Eu causing global problems wherever they stick their nose in. Russia would have done nothing if there was no Maidan and they (western Ukrainians) waited for the elections which were just around the corner.


in my opinion, Cold war never ended.

There is no such nation as Crimeans, Polson. Before claiming something, do some research at least.


This is not a Ukrainian conflict. It is an undeclared war of Russia against Ukraine. The terrorists, many with the Russian citizenship and well-armed penetrate through the border from Russia and terrorize the whole region and country.


So, if you have an anti-corrupt government protest in a country, the neighboring country has a right to invade?
People who died on Maidan were Ukrainians from every part of Ukraine as well as some non-Ukrainians. Besides, there is no such thing as western Ukrainians. And just to you specifically: Bandera has to do with the Ukrainians as Dmowski has to do with the Polish people. It is past. You may see some right wings guys on both sides of the border, but they are and will be a minute minority.

And you say that the Ukrainians should have waited for the criminal president who ordered killings on Maidan, who stole 100 billion dollars and escaped to Russia, who failed his promise to sign the EU agreement, who usurped all the branches of power, by violating the Constitution and introducing dictatorship laws, to be re-elected or even participate in the elections?!


Good point. The only correction is that the primary beneficiaries are the NATO countries themselves.

Yes there is, ever heard of the Crimean Tatar state? it existed for hundreds of years. Although it was approximately 75% Slavic slaves. Sad history.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Khanate

People who live in Crimea are Crimeans. I never said anything about them being a nation.
And by the way, ethnic Russians make more than half of the total population that I called by the demonym Crimeans.


Unfortunately, it seems it is more a US/EU/Russia conflict. Ukraine is just...the battlefield, for these good people to 'play'.


And now you have another oligarch ruling the country, who also owns Ukraine biggest news channel (5 Kanal).
I really hope the best for Ukrainians, and I really hope that Poroshenko will not sell the country (and its people(s)) to Western banks and firms (which has already started a long time ago anyway). I really, really hope Ukraine won't be a Greece 2.0.

Unfortunately, this is exactly what the future of Ukraine may look like. And that's just sad.


What did NATO do in Ukraine?
And what did Ukraine benefit from NATO?

NATO is not the solution. We should create a European, or even better (maybe), a UN army. That would work for peace. Not create conflicts.

Exactly, Crimean Tatars, not Crimeans. Name a nation by their full name. You are not called Can, are you?


You said: "According to international law and the UN, Crimeans have the right to self-determination". Therefore, you assume that this is a nation. Or you think that any group of people can succeed from a country while there are Russian troops stationed there and who enforce the voting and its results? How is it done where you live? Please, enlighten me, Polson!


I don't see the EU or the US army on our territory. Only Russian cockroaches. When there are the EU soldiers in Ukraine, I would have agreed with you. You like to philosophize, theorize, but the reality is different.


Are you a fortuneteller? Ukraine will follow Poland's example - we have everything necessary to succeed.


Yehhhh..... There is already UN peacekeeping forces - have no effect, when necessary. NATO is the solution. It needs to boost up its defenses, because right now its eastern members are threatened.

no that's not my name, so nobody calls me that. what a flawed analogy.
Does anyone call you Ukro or Ukrainian? or do they use your name or a nick name for it?
I do call the British on this site Brits though, is that a problem for you?

the nation was called Crimean Khanate, but I am sure Crimea or Krym is just fine.

Exactly. So, don't call others like that.


It was a state's, not a nation's name. As we mentioned above the nation is called Crimean Tatars.

oh bloody hell read the fooking article hence the link I provided... too much to ask, really?

Easy, we're just talking here. You know, there are billions of 'fooking articles' all over the Internet. And very few medias are completely neutral and 100% trustworthy, you should know that.


So American. Just these two lines tells a lot about the author's opinion.
I wonder if South and Central American countries where the US went meddling into still think that it helps to 'have the world's only superpower on your side'.

Plus, the US are on the decline. These are just nice words for naive people. And there are many.


I know it's a complex situation, and Putin benefited from that situation, clearly. He plays the game other world powers play.


Many medias are talking about US mercenaries (from Academi for instance), 'helping' Ukrainian (Kiev) armies.


Poland is still not France, Germany, or England. Far from that. Polish people need to work a lot, for little money (and Westerners benefit from that, they surely want to access the Ukrainian market, good workers for even less money). Still many Poles today decide to leave their country. And Poland has been an EU member for 10 years now... And they were in a better shape than Ukraine is now. The difference is huge. It's not fortune telling, it's facts.

Considering its population and situation, Ukraine needs to keep good relations with its neighbours (and this includes Russia of course), get rid of all the corruption (easy to say, huh?), and very important: Ukraine should not sell its whole economy to the West (or Russia). This is probably a mistake Poland did. But maybe they didn't really have the choice...


UN forces are meaningless. NATO should serve UN interests, or die. Right now, NATO mostly serves private and world powers interests. Until now, I'm not sure I've heard of a nation, a country 'saved' by NATO...really.

Zhirinovsky - Russian MPs are a disgrace

youtube.com/watch?v=C2yTPME9-JA

is case anyone doesn't know how to fight terrorism and "protect civilian hostages" from "terrorists",all you need to do is, blow entire residential district with artillery. here ATO and democracy at work,Lughansk today:

youtube.com/watch?v=11L8cOk00So

i see Slavic world divided, in blood and in flame and, i can`t see how is that good for humanity. Its not good.

Yeah, It makes me outraged that they do this. I feel sorrow for those people and their families. But what can we do.

i remember how the whole world was furious when Janukowicz sent berkut police to suppress maydan. calling it barbarity and criminal.
cant fokin find a single report in western media about blowing Lugansk with artillery today..that's OKEY for civilized world

guys,just look at this,Lughansk yesterday:


kresy.pl/wydarzenia,wojskowosc?zobacz/cywile-gina-w-lugansku-video-foto-18

The picture Crow posted demonstrates that perfectly.

I can't quite remember the part of the Maidan protests when the protesters started using tanks, can you remind me about that bit? And also perhaps you could jog my memory as to when the Maidan protesters used surface-to-air guided missiles to shoot down government planes? And also perhaps you could help me remember the usage by Maidan protesters of surface-to-surface missiles against government forces? Thanks in advance.

those civilians in Lughansk didnt use tanks either

Are you saying they were actually Russian army personnel? Interesting. Although their familiarity with and access to surface-to-air guided missiles, tanks, armoured personnel carriers, surface-to-surface missiles, heavy mortars, light and heavy artillery, etc does very much suggest at least a military back-ground.

during maidan the government did not send armored vehicles, heavy artillery and tanks. The rebels initially got their armored vehicles form the Ukrainian army. Some one here is a Harry troll.


Yes, civilians don't have/use tanks. only the half brain dead will think that they do.

anyone with common sense knows lobbing bombs into a city will kill innocent people.
I get the feeling some people think that the old guy walking to church who get blown into pieces is somehow a separatist/terrorist/militant/[insert anything they think will justify murder] etc.

what a shame.

You've told that lie before. Here's the truth in place of your Kremlin lies:


Somebody here has just been exposed as a liar, i.e. you.

any chance it was armed and used to shoot civilians at maidan? I think no. Any Tanks and heavy artillery lobbing bombs, another no.

You almost certainly claim that all the protesters shot at the Maidan were shot by Polish snipers who were employed by the Ukrainian opposition, don't you?


Were the protesters at the Maidan shooting down numerous Ukrainian government planes and helicopters with surface-to-air guided missiles? Were they using tanks and armoured personnel carriers? Did they use surface-to-surface missiles, heavy mortars, and light and heavy artillery to kill countless Ukrainian defence forces?

A little video




Lets rephrase that question
Were the Ukrainian government planes and helicopters firing bombs and missiles at the protesters at maiden?

Were the protesters at the Maidan shooting down numerous Ukrainian government planes and helicopters with surface-to-air guided missiles? Were they using tanks and armoured personnel carriers? Did they use surface-to-surface missiles, heavy mortars, and light and heavy artillery to kill countless Ukrainian defence forces?

Durring maidan, was the Ukrainian government firing bombs with planes and helicopters? Were they using tanks and armored personnel carriers against civilians? did they use missiles, heavy mortars, light and heavy artillery to kill countless civilians?

I can do that too.You see the situation is not exactly the same Troll.

As Putin ratchets up Russia's military aggression, he is taking steps to mute Europe's reaction to the impending offensive of its "peace keeping forces." Separatists are deliberately shelling Russian border towns to give Moscow the opportunity to claim that Ukraine is attacking Russian territory. A Kremlin news release indignantly declares that "Ukrainian shelling on the Russian Rostov region whereby one man was killed is unacceptable." In the face of such provocation, Russia is justified to protect its own interests with surgical strikes against the Ukrainian "junta." It is up to Putin, however, to define the scope of a "surgical strike."

In an unguarded moment, Putin admitted his admiration for Josef Goebbels. The Nazis used similar provocations to justify the Anchluss of Czechoslovakia and the invasion of Poland. Putin must have learned from them. Putin can claim, as did Goebbels before him, that a mighty nation must defend itself against the aggression of a weak and suicidal neighbor.

forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/07/15/russian-escalation-imminent-as-merkel-plays-the-peace-card-for-putin

If I lob a bomb into your backyard and it kills one of your family members would you be OK with that or outraged?
However only the one who did it should be punished.
If your a separatist or a soldier and you blow somebody up should their not be any consequences?

A lot of what Putin's media feeds to their own people is worthy of Goebbels too. There's even a slight resemblance. Photoshopped propaganda and outright lies like the alleged crucifixion of a 3 year old, while meanwhile he sends troops across the border to Ukrainian sovereign territory pretending to be separatist locals. Very sad, however all he's really doing is turning himself into an international pariah and setting back his country by years.