Ukraine Crisis... Poland... and the way i see it

ok..here we go...
Is it just me,or its something very strange,almost surreal,the way the media,polish politicians and world leaders react on this crisis.like some madness

2 things...i want to focus on...right sector and Crimea

1.there was no peaceful,pro democratic protests there!!!! but some very extreme fascists riot for god sake!!!!in the very first day 14 policeman died,13 of them from gun shot.

go visit militaryphotos.net and you will be shocked how different this "protest"was being reported in media.those bandits were heavy armed.

those "protesters"have demanded south east Poland to be incorporated to Ukraine,and they openly glorify Bandera.
they have no democratic mandate,Janukovitch was the one who was elected not Bandera thugs.
yet..all we hear is about "all Ukrainian people"struggle for "freedom and democracy"BS
they broke all law and constitution,illegally acquired power through armed,violent coup
2.lots of news about evil "pro janukovitch oligarch" yet...all richest and corrupted oligarch are the ones closely tied with tymoshenko and with opposition.

and there is Crimea.
region with small Ukrainian minority,passed to Ukraine soviet republic by some mad Ukrainian communist named Khrushchev. Crimea with massive Russian population,long historical ties,now living in extremely and openly anti Russian state,with fascist bandera thugs as a ruling government.who just passed anti minority laws to prosecute and discriminate minorities in ukraine

Ukraine has no historical justification for Crimea being in Ukraine.nor people there wants to be part of this state.not to mention,their democratic rights were not respected when Janukowitch was kicked out his office.

yet..against,truth and facts and logic all politicians and media seems to be so extremely determined to cause a civil war or 3 world war..some major politician in Poland (Palikot)calling for war against Russia...madness!!!!

they call Putin a mad man...but i find him very reasonable in what he speak and reason his action.those UE and polish politicians like Sikorsky seems mad to me.do the want war??!!!

whats your thoughts?

Spot on
Except for Putin - He is as much a bandit as the rest of them

and Putin has absolutely the right to invade any country where Russian speaking mother and children are engendered, particularity the countries that once were under protection of Russia. These are not Russian troops in Crimea, the uniforms were bought probably wholesale on Internet so until now we haven't seen Russian troops in Ukraine -yet. Russia is fully democratic country and could decide and car who should and who shouldn't be a president of another country that is particularly valid for the temporary country like Ukraine.

:)

thats the source of the problem.if you read what i wrote you would see that Crimea shouldn't never be part of Ukraine in the first place.they have no historical right to hold this region.nor ppl wants to be part of it.

in this perspective,Putin is doing right thing, not to mention that Putin wants a democratic referendum in Crimea not incorporating it.Ukrainians want to keep it without historical justifications ,ppl free will and not respecting their democratic choices and rights

No doubt Putin is a champion of democracy and Russia should decide on referendum or fate of the problematic regions of another countries. It did so successfully solved problems in Georgia, which should be an example. International agreements are for pussies not Russia, which because of its size matters most. After all like Putin said falling of USSR was the greatest disaster of 20th century - not 1st WW , not 2nd WW, not holocaust but the fall of wonderful, peaceful, democratic and progressive empire.

I agree.
Im still wondering if his incursion was worth it or not though.
The media here is full of ****. I actually hear people calling Putin Hitler.
Its best to get picture of both sides. Listen to some CNN and RT or whatever. Also do independant research to balance the view.

No matter what position you are in when it comes to Russia, you have to see that NATO wants to surround them.
I wish Slavic countries had better relations.
Some people mouths are foaming and they want war. Like what the hell is wrong with some people?!

i would rather prefer Putin deciding the fate of Crimea and its ppl than Bandera thugs.they decided fate of Wolynian people once
beside Putin wants referendum thus giving ppl of Crimea say.
i see all u got to say is some cynical mumbo jumbo

yea, lets just ignore this Ukraine para-state and its sovereignty, independence. Peace now is what matters most. Did those anonymous "self defense" troops kill somebody in Crimea? NO!! They didn't. Russia is under attack and prevented attack by mobilizing its troops and 100% of Russian parliament agreed to invade if necessary. 100% !!! Where else democracy could show us such splendid result, so homogeneous support.

I have to admit I laughed when I read this... this is sarcasm? Correct?

didn't mean to offend you; my point is that you don't solve any country minority rights problems or territorial disputes by invading the country- there are other forums to put the issues on. Frankly I hope Russia would pay dearly for its aggression on Ukraine.

true..Ukraine is an independent state.but its being run by thugs who openly glorify mass murderers,got to power by violent coup.are extremely hostile to 6 milions of Russians citizens,broke constitution,stomped on democratic rights of east Ukraine and its people,they demands territory from Poland with very weak pseudo historical justification for those demands.

i might not be an expert in international politic but to me this is all crazy.its just not right,fair and just.
look at this facts:
east pro Russian Ukraine had endured western Ukrainian and government of corrupt tymoshenko gang before,but once "their" guy won election,he was kicked out by fascists thugs who had no democratic mandate whatsoever.i mean..right sector had 5% vote all together.

as i said,,,maybe i don't understand something here because my knowledge is too low in Ukraine current affairs but its seems all just not just and not fair.thats why i opened this thread to learn from people with different view and more knowledge.

for me its seem bizarre all this anti Russian, world media and world politicians attack on Putin,blow out of proportion.
can you imagine some 1500 fascist killing police in armed riot in London,demanding democratically elected government to step down?

The outrage on Russia aggression is justifiable. It's not directed at Russians but at the Russia of Wladimir Putin.
It's up to Ukraine people to decide who they would elect and what kind of people would form government and what kind of politics they would pursue - not Putin but monitored elections would decide on this.

Out of proportion is claiming hostility toward Russian speakers in Ukraine - it is not happening!

whats this then?: rt.com/news/minority-language-law-ukraine-035/

good that this law has been canceled by higher legal entity in Ukraine. Any physical attacks just for people speaking Russian were not happening be it Lviv or Kijev or else.

what forums and what room for any negotiations are with Bandera Fascists?????
they already demanded part of Poland to be carved to Ukraine.ant they already said that there will be no changes in territorial integrity regarding Crimea.

beside...you said "minority"... Russians are majority in Crimea

You sound like a deluded Russian stooge. Russia does not like what is happening in the Ukraine, because the Putin regime knows that if Ukraine's transition proves successful, in 10 years time exactly the same thing will happen in Russia. Because the corruption, sleaze, and general immorality of the of the Russian elite, makes what happened in the Ukraine look like petty theft compared to grand larceny.

me deluded?

here breaking news for you:

democraticunderground.com/1017179182

youtube.com/watch?v=ZEgJ0oo3OA8

all those sniper killings done by snipers hired by Maidan leaders
they were even shooting own people in order to blame yanukowich. then they kick him out of office because he was suppose to be killing "peaceful protesters"

just come out
am not Russian,but this is insane

If you seriously believe this you must the biggest fukc... it town (:

i think you are the biggest **** in town.enjoy:

militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?236005-Situation-in-the-Ukraine-Crimea-*Photos-Videos*-ONLY

someone said ones just follow the money, does Putin has anything to gain by it? I do not thinks do does U.S. and E.U. with IMF has anything to gain I think a lot. but who is going to loose? of course the people in Ukraine will lose and in case of war the Politicians and their children will not fight just poor people children. it ia amazing how the riots started after Ukraine said no to IMF. Janukovitch should use heave hand before things got out of hand but he choose to appease be releasing the nazi party from jail, his own fault fot negotiating with terrorists. as to Poland I do not see a winning solution if the support terrorists in Ukraine they will be used by NATO similar like they got used by England during ww2 Poland should stay away and get out of NATO.

I think the most important opinions are those of the civilians who live in the Crimea region. Although I would agree that the upcoming referendum is being rushed through, it is important that the people have the opportunity to have their voice and to vote in a referendum which decides the future of their country. As for the 'legality' of this referendum, I believe this would not be a factor if a 'yes' vote by the majority 'ethnic Russian' population wasn't an almost certain probablility. Devolution was right in the UK. Soon the Scottish people will have their chance to vote on whether they wish to stay part of the UK or not. Although there are many in the other regions of the UK who may wish them to stay, it is ultimately the Scottish people who deserve the final say - not the military, not the politicians, but the people. I believe the same principles apply in Ukraine.

It is unfortunate for Ukraine, as a whole, and for the Crimea region in particular that they are in the middle of a big game of tug-of-war between the 'allied' nations and Russia. There has been and will continue to be a huge amount of intereference by 'both sides' in this conflict and given the stakes it is to be wholly expected. However, Ukraine is on the brink of a massive civil war. Maybe now is the time to allow the peoples of Ukraine to have a vote and choose their own destiny (even if it is to join the Russian Federation).

Did you happen to see the footage today of armed men (all wearing the same uniforms, i.e. the type Mr Putin says can be bought at any store) being sworn in at a polling station to 'guard' that polling station?

Does anybody seriously believe that this referendum is going to be anything even close to free and fair? Personally I'm expecting even more of a fix than the one this week where North Korea's dictator Kim Jong Un was re-elected to the highest legislative body without a single dissenting vote against in his district and with a 100% turnout.

I see your point and I would agree with you that now is not the present time for holding such a crucial election due to the fact that thousands of armed 'soldiers' have taken over in Crimea.

However, I would argue that in the long-term how can the international community refuse to allow the local population have a vote on the future of their country (in a future 'free and fair' election/referendum). If the 'West' wants to champion democracy then what's good enough for the Scots is good enough for the Crimeans. Anything else is just hypocrisy.

see west wants democracy as long as it goes their way, let us not fool our self being in western spear of influence is to be part of debt slave to big banks like IMF along with austerity. just down the memory line look what happen to Greece when they wanted to have referendum about staying in E.U. swift change of government and appointed former Goldman such baker in charge and austerity to people.

I think the whole thing is very bizarre and I always thought that. Like certain others, I think this was staged and the EU vote was only an excuse. They would have found any. It was staged using Nazi shock troops why I have no idea. Just bizarre. Ukraine is a giant country by Euro standards and Europe doesn't seem to like large ones that much. They keep wanting to break everyone into tiny little countries so none are bigger than Germany, probably.

It's odd this occurred in late winter with spring and summer just around the corner. They say revolutions should not begin in the fall.

You know, Harry, I read that they had printed 22% extra ballots (let's guess what they are for) and that the results are going to be in the vicinity of 74% to make it look "democratic" and at the same time "strong". Among so many wrongs of this horrible Russian invasion, it is sad to see the Tartar families being separated: women and children are leaving to Ukraine's mainland (I know that many were welcomed and housed in Lviv in the western part of Ukraine), while men (husbands, sons) stay behind as they say they are not going to leave their land, their homes.

rappler.com/world/regions/europe/52412-tatars-flee-crimea-western-ukraine

Copying/pasting more than 100 words is not allowed

thats some most retarded propaganda i seen since very long time...lol..children running away while men staying behind to fight...lol
how Ukrainians learned knowledge of those number of ballots???
i tho we are adults here.
Nathan
what is Ukraine historical justification for your occupation of Crimea???apart from AN Ukrainian communist Alcoholic thug Khrushchev giving away Crimea to Ukraine.

I'm not sure that even the Russians would be stupid enough to put the result there. A vote of 74% in favour would mean that not only do all of the ethnic Russians support Crimea joining the new USSR, but that two thirds of ethnic Ukrainians also support it (given that nobody is going to believe that Tatars are going to want to rejoin the nation which committed ethnic cleansing against them within living memory as they have only just managed to come back to their land). Although now I think about it, who the hell is going to believe that two thirds of the ethnic Ukrainians are going to want to rejoin a country which within living memory committed what a lot of them consider to have been a deliberate attempt to destroy the Ukrainian nation, i.e. the Holodomor?!

But this is the problem that Putin has: how to give an official vote result which takes into account the genocide and ethnic cleansing which the nations that account for 42% of the population suffered at the hands of Russia? Even if they claim that 74% of ethnic Russians support Crimea rejoining the USSR, that still doesnt' give them 50% plus one vote.


Here's one: As of Feb 2014, some 59% of the people in Crimea opposed 'reunification' with Russia.

I agree with you, Harry, that's why the Russian army and the associated formations of thugs threaten people in the Crimea. That's exactly why they didn't let through the observers of OSCE.


Crimea is Ukrainian land. Simple as that. The occupying force is Russia. If you want to go into the game of historical justifications, we easily can have WWIII, which is what you, as a Putin's loyal agent, is more than interested to have.

Can you tell how me how the court system works in Ukraine. Is there two official languages? Ukrainian/Russian?

Also, how is representation for public office?

Correction: Can you tell me how the court system works in Ukraine? Is there two official languages? Ukrainian/Russian?

Also, how is representation for public office?