Ukraine Crisis... Poland... and the way i see it

I'm not sure Nathan lives anywhere that people watch the two tv stations you mentioned. I certainly don't here in PL. You're quite free to believe, Marek, that Russian state tv is a more reliable source of news however most would consider it propaganda ridden.

The Russians haven't invaded yet... wait 'til Sunday ;)

I read press from all over the world. Just a few names: Deutsche Welle, Le Monde, BBC, Süddeutsche Zeitung, Gazeta Wyborcza, Wiadomosci, Hromadskie TV from Ukraine, which translates news live and has a section where the journalists read what the world renown newspapers say about the events in Ukraine. As John said I don't watch either of the two and have no idea about their reliability. The most important I don't stick to one source and more so of the country where Freedom of Speech ratings in 2013 by Reporters without Borders:

Germany - 17
Poland - 22 (Good job, Poland!)
France - 37
....
Ukraine - 126 (I know for sure that after Ukraine toppled the regime of Yanukovich, our ratings will get closer rating to those of many other European countries). I can see the change already. And I am very happy.

Russia - 148

en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2013,1054.html

Notice that the first 12 countries in the list are those that are in the EU. Also most of these newspapers are available in English, so why not spread one's mind a bit, instead of reading RT only?

Worth looking at as many news sources as possible. The most intelligent piece I've seen (though written for a UK audience and therefore different from something for domestic consumption in Ukraine) was by Marina Lewycka in the Guardian.

Also a good interview with Evgeny Lebedev (Russian but not aggressively nationalist, owner of the Independent/Evening Standard and Russia's best known gay billionaire) which takes a Russian point of view but one that a lot of Ukrainians wouldn't disagree with.

Absolutely.
Just to get back to the topic about the crisis in Ukraine - video of an older lady hit by the pro-russian fascist, "defenders of the Russian speakers" as they call themselves (the older lady speaks Russian, btw). Here is a video and my translation of the dialogue. This is a video from Feodosia, one of the occupied by the Russians cities in the Crimea. This woman speaks to the Russian soldiers and pro-russian activists (she is Russian-speaking - I say this for those who still think that Russian language somehow corresponds to the political views, allegiances or sympathies):

youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7Obuy2QEQBE

The topic is a headline in Washington Post - I hope they were not joking
Serious?? Ofcourse this is serious - now that Crimea will become part of the holy empire, our boys in uniform will have to get their rusted tanks out of the bunker and into the plains of Lubelszczyza ... the F-16 overhead can give them cover

and, why would Poland in the first place provoke Russia? What Poland has with it that some American and western European magnates and bankers miscalculated, strategically went too far in Yugoslavia, Serbia, Ukraine, Libya,... and now Russia responding? Naturally.

What I don't understand is why won't they let Crimea go with Russia? Now there's talk of sanctions from the west and this and that. I disapprove. This region voted to be part of Russia which means these people are very dissatisfied with being a part of Ukraine. So why not recognize their voices of dissent instead of finding ways to punish for their freedom to choose?

I only posted this because of their election, Nathan. We need to gauge what the average Crimean wants.

PP, I seriously don't recognize you. Sorry for being so familiar when talking to you, but I know you here for quite some time. What election? How are going to gauge the average Crimean if Crimea is under the occupation of Russia? And you said in the previous post that "the region voted for...". Do you think it VOTED? Do you really think that the opinions are best heard when there are gunmen at the voting stations?

yep, Nathan has a point.

Nathan I was just going by what I saw on the evening news. It didn't look like they were unhappy or coerced. It just didn't. I saw video. Thousands of people were cheerfully waving Russian flags. They were watching fireworks.

You have to understand I am not for either side. I just call it from the sidelines. I am for fairness for everyone involved and to have all their voices acknowledged. Neither side should be bullied or punished for siding with the west or Russia imo and keeping peace is top priority.

The extremists and neo-Fascists from Majdan do not realize that the Crimea does not need any falsification of the referendum. The population of the Crimea, after the illegal putsch and violent overthrow of a democratic government, wants to live in their own country that lives by democratic standards. Majdanaši sami pali, sami se ubili.

As for Ukraine, it was screwed by the Banderovci brothers, revolutionaries and other scum of careerist politicians and criminals as Klitschko who received orders from NATO / EU.

ntv.ru/peredacha/proisschestvie/m4001/o230317
ntv.ru/peredacha/proisschestvie/m4001/o227998
Ukrainian usurpers, they chose their masters for whom they will be marionettes. Now Ukraine is paying the price of that.

Nathan, the world is not a kindergarten, when with the devil together you plant pumpkins, you end up like this. When in a state coup came to power American mercenaries and marionettes, then it has a price, expressed in the implementation of U.S. methods towards your country.

I have nothing to say to you anymore, if this is how you see things and swallow them. You saw video, didn't you?! ;) Have you seen how the North Koreans cried when their leader died a few years ago? Every one of them. But do you really believe that people in a state where there is no democracy and people are thrown into the jail (if they are lucky, of course) for thinking differently somebody is going not to cry? Have you seen the video of the Crimean Tatars or the Ukrainians living in the Crimea, who make up around 36% of the population and the results of the "referendum" are 96.6% against Ukraine? Tatars who make 12% categorically boycotted this voting. The older generations remember the genocide they suffered from Stalin and the fact that only after Ukraine's independence they could come back to the Crimea to start rebuilding their lives. You don't live on the moon, PP. You have mind to think. Do the math. Or you are satisfied and convinced with seeing some fireworks on TV? If so, good luck to you.

Nathan,the Crimeans were not coerced there are so many ethnic Russians there,what makes you think that they wouldn't want to rejoin Russia?Don't get caught up in all the western propaganda.If you don't think that this coup in Kiev wasn't western backed.......Putin is no doubt a dictator and probably has visions of expanding the Russian empire again,but did people really think that Putin was going to let the EU establish a stronghold so close to home?If the situation were reversed...the US would have done the same thing.

You might take Putin's brandishing of the gas weapon as a shrewd geopolitical move. But it's a classic case of putting short-term interests ahead of long-term gain. Although the region's need for Gazprom supplies may strengthen his hand in the present, the strategy is forcing Europe to end its reliance on Russia. After the crises of 2006 and 2009, Europe increased imports from Norway and Qatar. It built new facilities for receiving liquefied natural gas, and upgraded storage capacity, so that supplies could be stockpiled in case of a cutoff. It imported more coal. Pipeline connections within the E.U. were improved, making shortages easier to alleviate. The Crimea crisis will give new impetus to these efforts. The U.K.'s foreign secretary has said that the crisis is likely to make Europe "recast" its approach to energy. A draft document prepared for a forthcoming E.U. summit deplored the Continent's "high energy dependency" and called on E.U. members to diversify their supplies. These moves are reminiscent of what happened after the oil crises of the nineteen-seventies made it clear to the West and Japan that relying on opec suppliers was foolish. Europe installed energy-saving technologies and invested heavily in nuclear energy and natural gas. France built fifty-six nuclear reactors in the fifteen years after the oil embargo of 1973.

newyorker.com/talk/financial/2014/03/24/140324ta_talk_surowiecki?utm_source=tny&utm_campaign=generalsocial&utm_medium=twitter&mbid=social_twitter&utm_source=tny&utm_campaign=generalsocial&utm_medium=facebook&mbid=social_facebook

Obama impose a sanction on Russia and the way I see it mother Russia has U.S. petrol dollar by it's balls all they have to do is say we are accepting all currencies but the dollar so Germany can pay in Euro and other nation can pay in gold or their currency.

what that would mean to a U.S. citizens a super inflation if not a hyper inflation. Is that what the elite of U.S. want ? I think so. That what we deserve for electing idiots to fourth term.

sick.
now they want to start nuclear weapon program.shocking and the whole world support them ..
i feel like i am living in some bizarre dream. bandera thugs "elected" with Molotov cocktail,supported by whole world,building nuclear weapon.not to mention that they barely have money for food and nukes cost massive money.

97% referendum- illegal,....nazi thugs with nukes -legal
and my government support this.somebody explain to me,how is this possible??wth is happening?

I have been watching President Putin addressing the upper house of Russian Parliament. I must admit that he has a point regrading Crimea.
Crimea joins Russia.

All countries that tried to express such ideas to date ended up in havoc and with leader killed. Libya with "Gold Dinar", Iraq with idea of moving oil trade to Euro... Neighbouring countries was de-stabilised as well...

Fortunately, Russia is not like Libya or Iraq. Not so easy target for modern british-american "political technologies".

By the way, it is interesting why US refused to return german gold to Germany immediately after their request.
Is there any real gold in Fort Knox, or just a pile of gold-plated tungsten bricks, like ones that was detected in China (with Fort Knox serial numbers) ?

from what i heard Poland still cant get gold from before second world war,that was stored in Britain.

wealthcycles.com/blog/2013/09/16/poland-gold-repatriation-movement-indicates-distrust-of-fiat-currency

i don't think either Poland or Germany will ever see it again.

By the way, Ukraine's gold reserves was loaded onto cargo plane and left in unknown direction, second night after a coup...

So, I think that Ukraine is now in same "club" as Poland and Germany. ;)

Ukraine gave up her nuclear weapons because countries including Russia guaranteed both her security and territorial integrity. Now it is clear that Russia intends to sh!t on those promises. It's clear to all that Russia wouldn't have dared to take that action if Ukraine still had nukes.


Clearly illegal and clearly fixed too.


I see that you're going with the Putin line; there's a surprise.


From what I hear, you're lying: Poland hasn't asked for that gold back yet. But no doubt you think that Britain should have just let the Nazis or the Commies steal all of Poland's gold.

The average Crimean did not want to be part of Russia when they voted at the last election.


Ukraine gave up its nukes on a Russian/American/British promise to protect its borders. No Russia has broken that promise they can get their nukes back and legally nuke the Russia occupation forces in Crimea.

tell this s..t to Crimean people who are now celebrating outcome of referendum in joy


nah..am going with the line of any person who has any dignity in him. i don't need to be on Putin side to disprove idea of Nazis with nukes

So in your world a population which was only 58% ethnic Russian voted 97% to join Russia. You don't think that the illegal 'referendum' held under the barrels of Russian guns wasn't even slightly fixed?


There are't any Nazis with nukes. Describing the Ukrainian government as Nazis is precisely what Putin's lackeys have been doing ever since his puppet in Kiev was overthrown.

how do you know that?


yes like U.S. brock promise not to expand NATO to eastern Europe and not to put ballistic missiles in Poland. go read what happen in Kosovo and the compare to Crimea.


working on a hear rumors who was it your neighbor or CNN ?

lol.
those nukes were put in Ukraine SSR ,part of USSR back then by Russians anyway
.


thay are Nazis,and they dont even try to hide it,
this "pupet in Kiev"was elected, bandera thugs were not

Does this celebration include the shooting death of a Ukrainian Soldier in Simferopol? The arrest and disarming of soldiers on their base?

I guess considering the illegal occupation of the base by Ukrainian forces, it would be justified, huh?