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Ukraine Crisis... Poland... and the way i see it



bluesfan
11 Mar 2014  #21

whats your thoughts?

I think the most important opinions are those of the civilians who live in the Crimea region. Although I would agree that the upcoming referendum is being rushed through, it is important that the people have the opportunity to have their voice and to vote in a referendum which decides the future of their country. As for the 'legality' of this referendum, I believe this would not be a factor if a 'yes' vote by the majority 'ethnic Russian' population wasn't an almost certain probablility. Devolution was right in the UK. Soon the Scottish people will have their chance to vote on whether they wish to stay part of the UK or not. Although there are many in the other regions of the UK who may wish them to stay, it is ultimately the Scottish people who deserve the final say - not the military, not the politicians, but the people. I believe the same principles apply in Ukraine.

It is unfortunate for Ukraine, as a whole, and for the Crimea region in particular that they are in the middle of a big game of tug-of-war between the 'allied' nations and Russia. There has been and will continue to be a huge amount of intereference by 'both sides' in this conflict and given the stakes it is to be wholly expected. However, Ukraine is on the brink of a massive civil war. Maybe now is the time to allow the peoples of Ukraine to have a vote and choose their own destiny (even if it is to join the Russian Federation).
Harry
11 Mar 2014  #22

Although I would agree that the upcoming referendum is being rushed through, it is important that the people have the opportunity to have their voice and to vote in a referendum which decides the future of their country. As for the 'legality' of this referendum

Did you happen to see the footage today of armed men (all wearing the same uniforms, i.e. the type Mr Putin says can be bought at any store) being sworn in at a polling station to 'guard' that polling station?

Does anybody seriously believe that this referendum is going to be anything even close to free and fair? Personally I'm expecting even more of a fix than the one this week where North Korea's dictator Kim Jong Un was re-elected to the highest legislative body without a single dissenting vote against in his district and with a 100% turnout.
bluesfan
11 Mar 2014  #23

I see your point and I would agree with you that now is not the present time for holding such a crucial election due to the fact that thousands of armed 'soldiers' have taken over in Crimea.

However, I would argue that in the long-term how can the international community refuse to allow the local population have a vote on the future of their country (in a future 'free and fair' election/referendum). If the 'West' wants to champion democracy then what's good enough for the Scots is good enough for the Crimeans. Anything else is just hypocrisy.
Marek11111
11 Mar 2014  #24

'West' wants to champion democracy then what's good enough for the Scots is good enough for the Crimeans. Anything else is just hypocracy.

see west wants democracy as long as it goes their way, let us not fool our self being in western spear of influence is to be part of debt slave to big banks like IMF along with austerity. just down the memory line look what happen to Greece when they wanted to have referendum about staying in E.U. swift change of government and appointed former Goldman such baker in charge and austerity to people.
PlasticPole
11 Mar 2014  #25

I think the whole thing is very bizarre and I always thought that. Like certain others, I think this was staged and the EU vote was only an excuse. They would have found any. It was staged using Nazi shock troops why I have no idea. Just bizarre. Ukraine is a giant country by Euro standards and Europe doesn't seem to like large ones that much. They keep wanting to break everyone into tiny little countries so none are bigger than Germany, probably.

It's odd this occurred in late winter with spring and summer just around the corner. They say revolutions should not begin in the fall.
Nathan
12 Mar 2014  #26

Did you happen to see the footage today of armed men (all wearing the same uniforms, i.e. the type Mr Putin says can be bought at any store) being sworn in at a polling station to 'guard' that polling station?
Does anybody seriously believe that this referendum is going to be anything even close to free and fair? Personally I'm expecting even more of a fix than the one this week where North Korea's dictator Kim Jong Un was re-elected to the highest legislative body without a single dissenting vote against in his district and with a 100% turnout.

You know, Harry, I read that they had printed 22% extra ballots (let's guess what they are for) and that the results are going to be in the vicinity of 74% to make it look "democratic" and at the same time "strong". Among so many wrongs of this horrible Russian invasion, it is sad to see the Tartar families being separated: women and children are leaving to Ukraine's mainland (I know that many were welcomed and housed in Lviv in the western part of Ukraine), while men (husbands, sons) stay behind as they say they are not going to leave their land, their homes.

rappler.com/world/regions/europe/52412-tatars-flee-crimea-western-ukraine

Copying/pasting more than 100 words is not allowed
gregy741
12 Mar 2014  #27

thats some most retarded propaganda i seen since very long time...lol..children running away while men staying behind to fight...lol
how Ukrainians learned knowledge of those number of ballots???
i tho we are adults here.
Nathan
what is Ukraine historical justification for your occupation of Crimea???apart from AN Ukrainian communist Alcoholic thug Khrushchev giving away Crimea to Ukraine.
Harry
12 Mar 2014  #28

the results are going to be in the vicinity of 74% to make it look "democratic" and at the same time "strong".

I'm not sure that even the Russians would be stupid enough to put the result there. A vote of 74% in favour would mean that not only do all of the ethnic Russians support Crimea joining the new USSR, but that two thirds of ethnic Ukrainians also support it (given that nobody is going to believe that Tatars are going to want to rejoin the nation which committed ethnic cleansing against them within living memory as they have only just managed to come back to their land). Although now I think about it, who the hell is going to believe that two thirds of the ethnic Ukrainians are going to want to rejoin a country which within living memory committed what a lot of them consider to have been a deliberate attempt to destroy the Ukrainian nation, i.e. the Holodomor?!

But this is the problem that Putin has: how to give an official vote result which takes into account the genocide and ethnic cleansing which the nations that account for 42% of the population suffered at the hands of Russia? Even if they claim that 74% of ethnic Russians support Crimea rejoining the USSR, that still doesnt' give them 50% plus one vote.

what is Ukraine historical justification for your occupation of Crimea???

Here's one: As of Feb 2014, some 59% of the people in Crimea opposed 'reunification' with Russia.
Nathan
12 Mar 2014  #29

A vote of 74% in favour would mean that not only do all of the ethnic Russians support Crimea joining the new USSR, but that two thirds of ethnic Ukrainians also support it (given that nobody is going to believe that Tatars are going to want to rejoin the nation which committed ethnic cleansing against them within living memory...

I agree with you, Harry, that's why the Russian army and the associated formations of thugs threaten people in the Crimea. That's exactly why they didn't let through the observers of OSCE.

what is Ukraine historical justification for your occupation of Crimea???

Crimea is Ukrainian land. Simple as that. The occupying force is Russia. If you want to go into the game of historical justifications, we easily can have WWIII, which is what you, as a Putin's loyal agent, is more than interested to have.
archiwum
12 Mar 2014  #30

Can you tell how me how the court system works in Ukraine. Is there two official languages? Ukrainian/Russian?

Also, how is representation for public office?

Correction: Can you tell me how the court system works in Ukraine? Is there two official languages? Ukrainian/Russian?

Also, how is representation for public office?
Nathan
12 Mar 2014  #31

Hi, archiwum. Here is a link to Wikipedia about Ukraine's court system.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_system_of_Ukraine
Same with the legislature. As to the languages, Ukrainian is the official language. All other languages are protected by law as the languages of Ukraine's minorities.
gregy741
12 Mar 2014  #32

Ukrainian is the official language. All other languages are protected by law as the languages of Ukraine's minorities.

globalresearch.ca/ukraine-how-to-hide-a-nazi-army/5373147

what are those yellow symbols on those "peaceful protesters" arms???

libcom.org/news/neo-nazis-far-right-protesters-ukraine-23012014

and here ,what Oleh Tyahnybok leader of your ruling party rising his arm means??cant be nazi salute isnt?
Crnogorac3
13 Mar 2014  #33

Here's how the meeting of Klitschko's party passed in the Crimea.

youtube.com/watch?v=7XN06vb6ZhA

If he lived more then two years in Ukraine maybe he would be a more important figure.
The guy barely knows how to talk in Ukrainian language.

The Neo-Nazis and terrorists in Kiev not only surrendered the Crimea they are also giving up on the whole east Ukraine.
Already the regions from the east sent a request for joining the Crimean autonomy, mainly they do not recognize the newly formed government in Kiev.

Klitschko is acting like a fool and going to Donetsk, where the people throw eggs at him, he has nothing to look for there.

They tried also with the Tatars, but the Russians promised them cultural autonomy.
gregy741
13 Mar 2014  #34

poor Ukrainians..i hope those fools not gonna create civil war there.
now Russia accused Poland of training those Nazis and preparing this coup..at first seems just a propaganda but Victoria Nuland admitted that 5 billion dollars was spent for Subverting Ukraine

man that's some serious money!!!!
globalresearch.ca/american-conquest-by-subversion-victoria-nulands-admits-washington-has-spent-5-billion-to-subvert-ukraine/5367782
is it possible they used those Nazis as a to overthrow Yanukovitch?

Nathan

dont support this coup Nathan.. nothing good will come from that for Ukraine .its already Ukrainians are the one losing,Poland will end up losers as well.some USA nasty politic to surrender and dominate Russia
Nathan
13 Mar 2014  #35

Oleh Tyahnybok leader of your ruling party

His party got about 10% at the last elections. It is not a ruling party. I have noticed your trolling tendencies awhile ago. Be respectful, learn the facts and stop lying.

Russia

The only losers of democratic Ukraine is Putin and his clique. Poland as a neighbor and a great supporter will get a reliable business partner, from which Poland's economy will only profit, the EU will eventually incorporate a respectful and hard-working member, the US as well.
Crnogorac3
13 Mar 2014  #36

Russia was placed before a fait accompli. They did not want the violence that took place in Ukraine, they did not want to have McCain in Kiev who will further agitate people. The American strategy was to through opposition leaders, who were instructed by Western governments, pursue their interests in a wave of dissatisfied people and a bad economic situation. Ukraine is now totally subordinate to the IMF, the World Bank, the American government. Meanwhile, with the illegal government without a referendum they signed a series of contracts they could not have with Yanukovych. This is what Americans have been doing for years to governments they do not like, strengthening the opposition, financing their leaders who are later plotting and forcing people into the streets. Later the media machine will do the work.

Russia as a counterweight to American imperialism in this case had to respond, did not have much choice.
legend
13 Mar 2014  #37

Right on. This whole situation has huge implications on the whole world.
One of the most important thing is for some countries to oppose the US/UK axis of evil from achieving full spectrum dominance.
It seems only Russia and China can do that. The world cant have a bully knocking out everyone they dont like and places their minions (see US foreign policy).

It makes me sick that countries like France, Germany and Italy have succumbed to pressure. The US system (banking, CIA, military, NGOs, "thinktanks") is very strong when it comes to influencing or punishing others.

Perhaps maybe in the future Brazil will have more say too.
Ideally East/Central Europe should be neutral but because the US came the winner of WWII (they made sure of it) they impose their thinking onto others.
Crnogorac3
13 Mar 2014  #38

The only losers of democratic Ukraine is Putin and his clique.

This is how things are done by these "patriots"... session of the Assembly in one of the western provinces, after which it fell under the control of the "Right-Sector" ...

1

So you dare to not raise your hand when they demand it

youtu.be/BE-E3XpI9rM
This is how it looks these days in "democratic" Ukraine, in the session storm in a bunch of neo-Nazis of the Right Sector, armed with bats, guns, kalashnikovs, so dare to press the button and vote against their demands.

Let's see how they are going to form a government in the territory of the whole of Ukraine.

The West did not suit a pro-Russian Ukraine, now they will have a Russia with the entire northern coast of the warm sea, which receives a direct border with Romania, Moldova, Transdniestria ... excellent strategic move

Although the best solution is for Russia to send troops and help the legitimate government of Ukraine arrest bandits and troublemakers. Those few thousand malcontents were the option that lost the last election, so they set out to conquer power in a military putsch.

If Ukraine is a democratic country, the police would bust them a long time ago.
I wonder what would be the life expectancy of the demonstrators that in America shot at a police officer.

Right on. This whole situation has huge implications on the whole world.
One of the most important thing is for some countries to oppose the US/UK axis of evil from achieving full spectrum dominance.
It seems only Russia and China can do that. The world cant have a bully knocking out everyone they dont like and places their minions (see US foreign policy).

That is correct. That which is called a problem is that Yanukovych did not sign the EU trade pact. If he signed it, we would never learn that Yanukovich is corrupted, we would not know that people are dissatisfied, everything would be covered up. West agenda is so powerful it can initiate an avalanche of violence just to reach it's aim.

Ukrainian presidential elections have never been disputed or contested from the side of the West because then Yanukovych seemed to them like a suitable official who will carry out and implement EU policies. Then nobody spoke about a dictator and corruption. Klitschko and other leaders are just puppets or means through which the EU-USA will achieve its aim.

And now with the coup d'etat they have a democracy with the motto death to the Jews, Poles and Russians thereby building a better, freer and progressive Ukraine.
Harry
13 Mar 2014  #39

now they will have a Russia with the entire northern coast of the warm sea, which receives a direct border with Romania, Moldova, Transdniestria ... excellent strategic move

Yes, what Russia really needs right now is to acquire Ukraine's rust belt. Crimea, Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk, Mykolaiv, and Zaporizhzhya together in the first half of 2013 took 22.82 billion hryvnia (around $2.5 billion) more from the central government than they paid in taxes, that's $5 billion per year as a drain on Russia.

censor.net.ua/resonance/268512/zona_proedaniya_kto_kogo_kormit_v_ukraine

Add to that another $1 billion which Kiev currently spends supporting the Ukrainian coal industry, which is all in the east of Ukraine. Crimea's main industry used to tourism but 70% of its visitors came from Ukraine, so they won't be back soon. This is certainly a superb move by Putin!
Marek11111
13 Mar 2014  #40

"Hacked Email from U.S. Army Attache in Ukraine - For False Flags to occur so U.S. can take military action against Russia "

so U.S. going back to old bag of tricks.

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