Random Chat 2

.....there you are! :)

No they didn't. They just hated them.

Are you still banging on about the UPA-B?

Remember, tehy weren't an army, weren't a country and weren't even a well organised group. They were a ragtag band of indisciplined partisans. And as mentioned, ad infinitum, when the Volhynia Massacre happened, Stepan Bandera was imprisoned by the Nazis in the Sachsenhausen concentration camp.


He was and yes, it's good; he was a figure who fought for their independence and was eventually murdered for his efforts. About his extreme right-wing politics and anti-semitism, I doubt they differ much from the views of some of the key figures in the AK and NSZ. Nevertheless, like them or not, they stepped up when their country was at its lowest ebb.


Really?

Mind your manners.

Pay attention to those quotation marks. "Felt threatened". Nazi propaganda potrayed Jews as a threat to the state:

Hitler 'blamed "money-grubbing Jews" for all of Weimar Germany's economic problems. He also drew upon the antisemitic elements of the stab-in-the-back legend to explain the defeat in World War I and to justify Nazi views as self-defense.'

(quote from Wikipedia)

But, yes, of course, they hated Jews. The same was with Ukrainians who butchered Poles - they hated them. They must've or those massacres wouldn't happen and they wouldn't be so cruel and barbaric.


OUN-B and UPA were not only "organised groups". OUN-B was a political-military organisation with a leader (Bandera) and UPA was a military organisation - both of them are responsible for massacres on Poles, Jews, etc. It stemmed from their ideology which claimed that Ukraine should be a mono-ethnic country. And so Poland wouldn't be able to ever claim those lands as Polish they decided to get rid of Poles and any traces of "Polishness". Those weren't some spontaneous "incidents", it was a deliberate, ideoligically motivated ethnic cleansing.

I even read that banderites were given instructions by their leaders to first chase away Poles and kill them only if they wouldn't move from those lands, but the instructions weren't followed and often they killed Poles right away. But still, the fact that they were given instructions to kill people if they didn't move, shows to any normal person how evil that ideology was.


You're absolutely vomit-inducing.


You "doubt"? How about some proof? Links? Anything?


So did SS soldiers! I'm sure they were great "patriots" of their country too! lol 🤦


Yes, really. And you don't deserve any manners from me. You're no better than RuSSians. Cold-blooded psychopath with no moral spine, no respect for human life and no empathy. Sickening.

Why?


And you can go and get a grip on yourself.

Are you stupid?

I'll explain then. Jews weren't any "threat" to Germany. But they were portrayed as such by Nazi propaganda. In reality the Nazis hated Jews and wanted to get rid of them. Poles also weren't any "threat" to Ukraine. They were in minority in those lands and the victims of those massacres were mainly poor farmers. But they were portrayed as a "threat" by banderite ideology, because they hated Poles and wanted to get rid of them.


You have no counterarguments, I see :)

Are you obsessed?


Because it's not a debating club, and I'm not interested in engaging with ranters.

@jon357, I'm not a "ranter". I presented you with valid arguments and known historical facts. It looks like you have no counterarguments and you're trying to weasel out :) Very lame.


No, I'm a decent human being. And I'm honestly disappointed that you turned out to be mentally and morally an orc.

There you go. Trying to argue...


You can try to bait, but it won't work...

@jon357, I'm not "baiting". I've discussed with RuSSians who were trying to rationalise the Katyń massacre. One of them even stated in an emotionless, matter-of-fact way that if it was in RuSSian interest he would do it himself - he would kill Polish POWs, if it was "necessary". I remembered those words: "if necessary".

This is exactly how you described ethnic cleansing (in the same cold way):


...knowing full well that I'm writing about killing defenceless women and children and not chasing them away from their homes (which would be bad enough anyway).

You really don't realise how you sound, jon357? You sound like Novichok.


lol
I see that you still have no counterarguments, but do you have to make a fool of yourself?:

"argument:
2. a reason or set of reasons given in support of an idea, action or theory."

Yes you are.

And as you can see; I'm not interested in engaging.


No matter how hard you try, you'll always fail to provoke me here.

No, I'm not. I'm always honest on this forum and I write what I think.


I'm not "provoking" you lol I'm shaming you for your lame, pathetic behaviour. You're an adult guy, jon357, grow up.


Because you don't have any counterarguments. But that's OK, I think your stubborn ass was whooped enough. Hopefully something sinked in and you learned something.

@Paulina

I am, frankly, impressed by your judicious, levelheaded and rational way of presenting your arguments. Respect.

I avoided getting involved in the discussion, because for personal, family reasons I might be accused of anti-UPA bias; besides, I didn't have to get involved - you said everything I would have said and more. Thank you.

@jon357

You lost the argument. Accept it like a man.

I'm not in an argument with her.

Much as she'd like one.

There are plenty of insults from her; so far I've held back responding. She's trying everything though, and it's all failed.

If it a "collateral damage" - the term Western "democracies" love to use when trying to explain their crimes - it doesn't count as "killing". But I understand that Polish irresistible desire to exaggerate to win an argument.


I am not. She is just another, by-the-book, common-sense-be-damned, patronizing "professor". In her world, things are either right or wrong. Russia fired the first shot so Russia is wrong and nothing else matters. Period. End of discussion. See you tomorrow, kids. The fact that Zidiots have been killing Russians for 8 long years doesn't matter because that was internal.

You clearly don't understand what I want (or you pretend you don't).


Yes, I tried to get some humane reaction from you, but I haven't seen any so far. I just hope that the fact that you're weaseling out of this discussion means that you've understood that you went too far.


No, deliberate ethnic cleansing isn't "collateral damage".


You seem to forget that for those 8 long years RuSSians were killing Ukrainians too and, yes, RuSSia started it all.

There is no such crime in American penal codes as "ethnic cleansing". There is "murder", "terrorism", and other acts of violence. It's a bullsh*it term cooked up by activists to give them something to bs about. Just like "social justice" and "woman's right to choose".

If it was a crime, black thugs shooting kids in a mixed US 'hood would be charged with ethnic cleansing by making whites run for their lives. Goggle Zimbabwe and South Africa.

Or more clearly don't care.


Fishing for a reaction doesn't work...


It still doesn't work...

Then you can call it an "aggravated mass murder of thousands of people with the intention of completely removing a given ethnicity from a specific territory", if you wish. 🙄


Pity.


"Humane reaction". I wanted to see if you're a normal human being or not.


So I guess you're not a normal human being after all :/

No you didn't...

And it still doesn't work...

What are you - a 5-year-old? lol o_O
🤦


Then why are you still talking to me? lol

How many is "mass"? In the US, "mass shooting" means 4 or more in a short time - whatever "short" means.

What is your definition of "mass" murder?

BTW, every murder is killing but not every killing is murder. Just a reminder...Also, resettlement is not killing or "cleansing". People are resettled for a number of reasons.

@Novichok, are you bored? lol 🤦 Jesus...

No. I find Polish linguistically and legally reckless idiots both a challenge and a source of annoyance.
You and other stupid women here present an extra irritation with your oh, look, a dead Ukrainian baby but never oh look a dead aborted baby - deliberately killed by "mommy".

I find myself asking the same question.

@Novichok, there's nothing "Polish" about the term "ethnic cleansing":

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing

This term surfaced in the context of the 1990's conflict in the former Yugoslavia and is considered to come from a literal translation of the Serbo-Croatian expression "etničko čišćenje".


Resettlement is an "ethnic cleansing" if it is a forced resettlement with the intention of removing a given ethnicity from some territory. This is why it's called "ethnic cleansing" and not just "cleansing" or "resettlement" or "evacuation" or even "deportation". It's a term that is supposed describe a specific action with a specific intention behind it. That's what we have words and terms for, Novichok. To describe stuff. The term "ethnic cleansing" is shorter than "numerous acts of aggravated mass murder and forced resettlement of thousands of people with the intention of completely removing a given ethnicity from a specific territory". Do you get it now?


You must've forgotten about my posts about abortions of female fetuses in India and China. Actually, right-wing men seem to conveniently forget about those abortions altogether... Or maybe they don't care?

Milo, you returned 6 hours ahead of your cheap energy tariffe plan!!! What a sacrifice on your part! You are amaSSing!!!


Novi, welcome back, madafaka!I missed you, but I knew you would come back coz you always do. hahahaha AmaSSing.

You didn't mention for what reason. Cute...
"Forced"? Another scary word...Do you pay your income taxes voluntarily? There are many things we are "forced" to do.
Would you want me to give you examples of how "forced" segregation is good and "integration" is bad?

I'm not going to waste more time on you, moron. Yes, when armed men are burning down your house and are pointing guns at you and are yelling at you to take your family, run and never come back or they'll kill you, it is "forced" and it is "scary", you idiot. 🤦 How would you call it, genius? "Involuntary under the threat of violence"? lol

Yes, when armed men are burning down your house and are pointing guns at you and are yelling at you to take your family
Are you suggesting that Russians did this recently? If so, when and where?

Never forget Novi is an obsessive attention sicker who will express even the stupidest opinion to attract your attention.:):):)