Serbia etc. thread 2

@Tacitus
Not from German history, Germany's history.

Austria's bad management and relations with the french situation lead to the main argument to why Germany had to come to existence. To avoid external invasions from abroad, the swedish meddling during the reformation and french invasion during Napoleon were used as prime examples of why a strong german military was needed by the german nation. Which is why the military conflicts that Prussia performed with success was paramount to overtaking Austria's role on the continent and within the lands, formerly being part of the HRE.

If Germany was considered the successor of the HRE, then that would make Germany able to claim all the lands which the Habsburg's controlled as the Emperor of the HRE, the lasts formerly controlled by the Roman Empire (it's a Christian continuation right?)

It's a powderkeg ready to explode, which it did in 1939.

It makes little sense to continue this debate since it will be deleted as offtopic eventually. You can either view the HRE as predecessor of Germany or Prussia, in both cases they have won plenty of victories compared to Serbia.


Germany has explicitely ruled out any future expanaion in its' constitution.

@Tacitus
Prussia was most definitely Germany's predecessor, also known as Brandenburg before it made herself a kingdom in Prussia (outside HRE).

Then Germany mythology has no consequence as long as the constitution is upheld by it's citizens.

At least Serbians remain Serbians, instead of insisting to be called Yugoslavians. Or rebranding themselves in to Romans, cause the Roman Empire once ruled there

Just because they lost

Oathbreaker....following your line of thought Polands "golden Age", the Piasts, the Jagellonians or the Commonwealth are "mythology" only too and have absolutely nothing to do with modern Poland!

Cut the crap please!

Everything what happened in this region has shaped what is today Poland and Germany....for the good and the bad....we weren't just hatched from a certain date onwards.

That's millennias full of history...of victories and defeats...of high times and low times....of expansions and shrinkings....borders and names have changed, but not the people!

Yes. But Empires coming and perish with great help of Serbs to perish. Then, they are gone and Serbs stand on the battlefield.


Not quite the same. Since rise of Rome, Sarmatian (ie Serbian) space in Europe is reduced. But German, germanized Serbs secured dominance.

We now entered era that those who remained Serbs (is Sarmats) spread and restore dominance in Europe, while Germans, germanzied Serbs are to be reduced.

But just think what could heppen if germanization is canceled and Germans become Serbs again. Europe would be Europe. Pax Sarmatica. All wars in Europe would end. With Serbs from Balkan to Baltic, European (ie Slavic, ie Sarmatian, ie Serbian) ancient backbone would be reestablished and Europe would become one cultural space. Then, Russia (even former asian SU) would be merged to it and there would be largest ever human civlization on Earth. Western world. United around truth of what we really are, we would be ready for colonization of cosmos.


Oldest Roman texts say how are Serbs overlords to the all other Slavs and many sources say that all other Slavs originate from Serbs. What old authors failed to say or was rather hidden from wide public is that all Europeans originate from Serbs.


400 years ago most of what is now Austria still was Slavic, ie Serbian, just like entire Eastern Germany.

See, germaniation is such a powerfull delussion.

Na, never.


Serbs originate from Poles.
Learn your history.
Serbs are the illegitimate offspring of Poles.

I know I do. There was Sarmatian (ie Serbian) tribe called Polani. I am from that tribe.

So, you just contradicted yourself.....????

Sarmatism (ie Serbism) coming back > and when Serbia enter EU, Brusseles falling in oblivion and Belgrade leads the pack >

Vučić in Pančevo: "Volvo and Mercedes could not do without parts produced in Serbia"

EU Needs Serbia, 'Key to Western Balkans', Orban Says

Hungary's Orban Urges Germans to Back EU Membership for Serbia

Orban and Vucic, few days ago in Belgrade

Angela Merkel's farewell message: Serbia in the EU

Exactly. That's what Lyzko was saying some time ago: you can change politics (internal and external), you can change alliances, you can change borders, but national character, the people, remains basically the same throughout centuries. To deny that is a dangerous illusion.

@Bratwurst Boy
The "people" you speak of didn't have anything to say in modern day Germany until after 1918, before that was the country of Hohenzollern family.

It wasn't until the crusades that the society as a whole was seen (usually from a religious point of view) and don't tell me that the German people were United in one religion after the reformation?

Any practical influence or power for Germans as a whole wasn't possible before 1918. As a nation with the people, not until 1871.

Remember that the nations one speaks of during medieval times are meant for the nobility/elite/learned men. Literacy didn't increase until XIX century.

You are mixing modern day view of nations, with past view of nations.

*facepalm*

The populi/the people didn't mingle in general with the nations in Europe. Which is also why things worked fine, but also how the distance was kept.

Who do you think took on the Roman Empire at it's height and thrashed them in that famous battle in the Teutoburg Forest in the year 9?

It hadn't been modern Germans, but the people living in this regeion saw each other as a people, a people which shared the same language and the same customs and the same beliefs and the same way of living....and most importantly they saw the Romans and their plans as "other"...as different....from "them". They decided to come together and fight for their way of living, preferring it to becoming Romans.

The Romans for sure saw them as "a people". They even wrote books about them. And that already 2000 years back!

What do you think makes a society?

@Bratwurst Boy
Romans looked at them from their own perspective, they were divided tribes. Only United for a brief moment to fight the Roman threat.

They even called pre-slavic tribes as part of Germania! Showing their cluelessness with regards to those terrains. There have been found archeological proof of pre-slavic (?) settlements in what Romans saw as part of Germania.

Romans knew a thing or two about power, not necessarily geography or other societies social structures. Which meant they had to force as many as possible to live like Romans to make it easier for them to govern, while not accepting foreigners as Romans cause of lack of blood ancestry. Especially Roman aristocrats. They were after all very proud and their way of life involved how they were the descendants of the first Romans who built Rome as a city. They rebelled against an Etruscan king and formed a brotherhood to never let a tyrant rule them or their sons and daughters ever again.

Which is why it was an republic until Julius Caesar practically changed it into a dictatorship, breaking Roman tradition and heritage

And? What more do you want?

If these people hadn't had no idea of their society they wouldn't had cared at all....The Romans would had plucked off one tribe after the other, as they did so successfully with others...but these people in central Europe were already a people, a society...different to the roman one and preferring it that way....willing to come together and fight for it!

That's the core of every society....

YOU just make the error you accused me of before, viewing a society only through modern lenses!

The HRE consisted at its height of about 500 little statlets....you could call them tribes....that's for centuries the preferred way of living for the Germans (as in not-unified:)....that doesn't make the 1000 year old HRE less successfull or less of a society! :)

Point wasn`t in `different`. Point was that Romans came to their land to rule them and not vice versa. So, they gave the battle to the Romans.


And people of old Europe and Slavic world (because what is modern day Germany was deep within the Slavic world), called itself Serbs.

So go to Lusatia or even rather to the last remaining Baltic Serbs, Kashubs and listen how they speak. That is closest to the speech of the `people` who resisted to the Romans at Teutoburg Forest. Romanization and Germanization came later to them.

True.....and not all could be bought with gold coins and bath houses! Most had no wish to pay taxes! :)

@Bratwurst Boy
HRE was most definitely not tribal... It was decentralized.

Each civilization progresses (even fall) and the people pushing for it the most can stay or change/adapt.

Which is why we call Americans today for Americans and not homo-sapien or anglo-saxons

When Tolkien wrote Lords of the Rings he followed thoughts of Grimm brothers and learned and examined Serbian language and mythology. If I write book about Battle at Teutoburg Forest I would focus myself on the language of northern Serbs, Kashubs, exclude Polish elements and influences in last 2000 years from their language (linguists can do that), and that would be it.

If every statelet would had had it's own football team you would had seen how tribal the HRE championship would had become! :)


I for one differentiate and call the "Americans" more fittingly USians....I know from experience that the Central- and South Americans beg to differ....and even the Canadians want not be seen as "Americans"....I won't even start with the Native Americans who prefer to be called different nation names etc...

@Bratwurst Boy
You might as well call them confederates since they aren't "United" with the "United" states of America.

Maybe....but "Confederates" still means also something totally different with most people....so I stay with "USians" for the time being! ;)


Now that would be a cool project for a life time....think about it!

I agree! What a great idea! Crow! Should go for it

At almost same time, just after Teutoburg battle happened Great Illyrian Revolt. Connection of events on ancient Serbian line from Baltic to Balkan is obvious. I will tell you what happened. Romans disturbed ancient trade routes, flow of amber included, and warlords and chieftains became desperate, as well as druidic caste. It was horrible era. Romans were like a plague. I can close my eyes and imagine, ancient civilization of sun and solstice, in disaster and turmoil.

That era is about to end in a post-Corona world.


Who know if life is long enough. I now write another book, in different genre. It it goes slow. I know that humanity losing because I am lazy but what can I do. I also have other obligations and unfortunately don`t live from writing. Writing is a passion, a hobby.

@Crow
The Romans were weak and Serbians were smart to seize the moment to strike! So should you! Seize this moment! Start writing a book about it!

Suebi or Shwabi are mentioned to played key role in a Tauteberg battle. In another thread about sword Szczerbiec I mentioned that Polish Szczerb and then Swed, Sueb, Shwab, Spaniard, ... all by linguists represent local versions of Sarmatian (ie Serbian) ethnic name.

I mourn.

Stop mourning!

I for one know nothing about it...with a good researched book you could bring them back to life, back into the memory of the Europeans. You have to concentrate on facts and bring lotsa proof though, don't forget that!

You want to keep Crow occupied, so he doesn't have time to post on PF. What a tricky plan! ;)

And after Great Illyrian Revolt was the moment when ancient tribes of Poland entered scene thru helping to Illyrian exhausted tribes to fulfill the tribute to the Romans. Most of those 5000 cavalryman sent to Britain and led by noble son of Sarmatian chieftain from Iliricum, Arcturus Castus (romanized, later local Arthur Pendragon/of Dragon- referring to Sarmatian symbol), was from Poland. Genetic examinations confirmed.

Then, in Britain they fought against Picts, Sarmats of British islands.

Tragedy, tragedy, tragedy. Thousand deaths for Rome isn`t enough!

Oh, I can connect these events in a book but it would be too emotional. Too emotional.


Yes, it crossed my mind. He want to turn me into monk dedicated to writing.

The best and most important stuff is....or otherwise it wouldn't be worth it!

How true.

But book would have to end by modern day Serbian army hits Rome with missiles. It is necessary even as symbolic act of liberation of Europe and Slavic world. Is that even possible? Could Serbian army make this charge onto the core of evil.

This is radius of S-400 missile system from Serbia. Rome is at maximal range. Move it to the Serb Republic in Bosnia and Herzegovina and Rome is in optimal range.