Civil war in Syria

I know this conflict is not very related to Poland,only indirectly but since Poland is NATO member and NATO is heavily involved there ,and since this conflict is starting to affect Poland and its social -political life through migration,i decided to start this thread.
i am not very informed in regards of this conflict,only recently i started to read and learn bits about it,so maybe there are more knowledgeable people here on this forum,i could learn more..especially from some Syrian members of PF.
we been told that Assad is evil here and so called "moderate" opposition in form of "free Syrian army" are the good guys.are they really "moderate"? or those guys are just terrorists in sheep skin?
what strikes me when i was reading wiki is that they regularly fight alongside ISIS and al - nursa front..both are most brutal terrorists org. i only spent like an hour today and almost every single battle against Assad forces,Free Syrian army fought alongside terrorists from either ISIS or al-nusra.just some battles as example,look at Belligerents section:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Northwestern_Syria_offensive
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quneitra_offensive_(2015)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daraa_offensive_(June%E2%80%93July_2015)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ghab_offensive_(July%E2%80%93August_2015)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Abu_al-Duhur_Airbase

how can US and NATO justify arming and financing so brutal terrorists with their pony and often false anty assad accusation?use of gas for example.
i am not fan of Assad,but those guys are much more brutal and dangerous..
i heard people on forum accusing US of sponsoring ISIS and terrorism in middle east,but i was thinking those were some conspiracy theories..but all those free Syrian army soldiers looks dodgy at best.is US that blind or they knowingly support terrorists in order to remove Assad?
and what is Russia trying to accomplish there?
so whats your opinion regarding this conflict?

@gregy741: you are right about a key point, the lines between moderate and radical (extremist) opposition appears to be blurry today, and that is the direct result of a deliberate media campaign to make it appear so.

You might ask who has motive to make it appear this way, and easily Assad's regime and his backers (Russian, Iran, etc.) benefit from presenting him as the only non-radical option in Syria. But you should also know that some Western entities and their partners have also worked at times to promote this image simply to justify involvement for whatever geopolitical agenda they have.

Russia simply wants a foothold in the region and a dependable partner. Very straightforward geopolitics. Plus their presence in the area makes NATO uncomfortable. Again, that makes Putin happy. You might want to add a new factor, seldom talked about but extremely important; there are massive Uranium deposits in Central Syria. These became known to the public around 2002-2003. I don't know if you noticed but everything in the region went in the gutter very quickly after 2003. You do the math.

Another factor which is important to mention; Assad and ISIS have not directly fought each other, with the exception of very limited scale skirmishes. In fact, ISIS has gained territory in Syria chiefly after the withdrawal of Assad's forces, without fighting.
Most of the leaders of radical Islamist armed groups in Syria were released from prison by direct orders of Assad within the past 5 years, including many of those that form the knees and elbows of ISIS. The demonic nature of ISIS is the single strongest political weapon Assad has today. Again, you do the math.

The operation to finance and train moderate rebels against Assad was dodgy from day one. They failed to do their homework (by accident or deliberately, you be the judge) and handed the money to a bunch of corrupt clowns with no real credibility in Syria. All the while some wealthy Gulf nations kept pumping money and weapons to Islamists and Iran and Russia kept supporting Assad. Again you do the math...

so...FSA constantly fighting alongside al nusra is result of media campaign?dont get it..you trying to tell me that those moderates are being made to appear as radicals by media? i see exactly other way around.its not media told them to fight alongside al nusra.there are countless reports claiming that all ao FSA military success are made by al nusra and FSA are credited with it.all in order to hide real face of FSA,wich is just bunch of terrorists who wear western uniforms in order to get financed and armed.
how on earth can anyone call islamic radical with AK - a moderate?only one reason-to fool public opinion.

i think,its far fetched accusation,with no proof
Assad did declare a wide ranging amnesty ,releasing hundreds of Muslim Brotherhood,but it seems he blundered,thinking to be tolerant and forgiving.in return those people turned against him and were core fighters who started civil war.thats how i understood from limited info i have

yea..i can hardly see it as mistake..i mean ,how many mistakes US policy can make in middle east until someone must start thinking,all this was deliberate. actions.i dont believe that US supporting all those radicals were not able to see isis state rising.i mean..there is not even sanctions against ISIS.from what i gathered ,ISIS still sell oil and gas and gets "humanitarian" help from SA and Quatar.US closest allies.
that just insane

an interview with Cameron,about supporting terrorist al nusra and SA sponsored terrorism..hilarious,middle east issues starts at 3:20.:

youtube.com/watch?v=mkjGqOg5-Kw

its show all western hypocrisy..some funny stuff - "problem with plans" hahaha

more i think what Cameron said,its more crazy..
well,confronted with interviewer with question:why supporting SA who sponsor terrorism,he replied-national security reason.
saying,UK received information from SA ,about terrorist operations in the UK.
its just looks like,UK supports terrorist exporting state in order to be safe.looks like Europe will continue to see no evil hear no evil policy,out of fear.
we are fked

How about the fact that they were in jail up to 2010 and then suddenly they were not in jail anymore? Did they all just magically escape? Islamic radicals in particular were detained in the harshest and most secure facilities in Syria. No one got out alive unless orders came from the very top. If you even think of becoming an Islamic radical, or even think of sympathizing with radicals, you're gone. That is how Syria used to be run. You could bribe your way out of the legal system for just about anything except Islamic radicalism.


I saw that. He clearly felt cornered and threw the national security card. And yes, that is hypocritical on his part. They allow KSA to get away with all kinds of violations because KSA has money. It is very sick really, especially how they allow KSA and certain other countries to blatantly finance and support radicals.

Regarding non-sectarian rebels in Syria, the media doesn't talk about them and all the big regional players are happy with it being like this. I am aware of their existence, and I am aware of many non-muslims amongst their ranks.

here is some very interesting information about ISIS and how it comes to existance:
youtube.com/watch?v=NfZzOLejYnY

many experts blame incompetency or plain stupidity of US in arming so called moderate Syrian rebels (many claim its non existent)
or is FSA merely proxy to help US to arm ISIS? See latest Toyota pick ups story.
all ordered by FSA,and all end up in ISIS hands.
globalresearch.ca/the-mystery-of-isis-toyota-army-solved/5480921

German and Swedish knives, Swiss watches, french hand grenades,brand new Toyota pickups , huge amount of US equipment, US supplies and US weapons.and that story with CIA,500 million dollars to train FSA to fight ISIS,all of em bar 5 joined ISIS after training.
WTF madness is that?

Merged: France's meddling in Syria's affairs is detrimental to Poland

Behaviour of the French politicians is idiotic, they interfere in Syria's government policies accusing top officials of being responsible for the torture of opposition representatives. A government that is inconvenient to Americans and to the French becomes a direct target of French propaganda, yet again Western Europeans are stirring trouble in the Arab world. This baseless interference is likely to generate great anger among Arab nations, so far this dissonance has resulted in France being the target (the tragedy of the 13th), but if western meddling continues then Arabs will not bother discriminating and every EU nation will become a target, including Poland.

Actually France is being used by the Qataris and Saudis on their plan to oust Assad (a Secular dictator) and put in the place a Sunni Theocratic fundamentalist dictator, just like Saudi/Qatar done at Libya, Yemen and are trying to do at Egypt.

While of course Assad commited crimes, he is, by far, the less horrible option of power for Syria. At least he doesn't slaughter openly Shias, Yazidis and Christians (and eventually PROTECT them!)

So IF, only IF the west STOP arming terrorists and call them "Moderate Rebels" (Moderate my as*s! Most of those so called moderates have ties with Al Nusra Front!), maybe there will be some hope.

Hope that Poland doesn't play the same game.

And it hurts at me to say, but of all the superpowers, the only one that is having a correct approach regarding Syria is the Russia of Putin.

You both make good points. Intervening in Libya was a huge mistake. Syria is an even bigger one.
Western countries are generally led by incompetent governments. And/or they have other interests.
The thing is: they don't learn from their mistakes. Or they don't want to learn.
Their terrorist policies create the perfect conditions for international terrorism.
The nightmare is not over, my friends.

Yeah. Tell that to the 230 victims of the Sinai crash. There were no eyewitnesses, and they didn't die painfully, at the barrel of a kalashnikov. They were still murdered though.

Putin and his mob are criminally clueless, and will always work diametrically to the west.

exactly.it seems US and NATO is acting there in middle east in SA request.its quite shocking ,how SA become powerful and influential.US will do whatever they demand for some reason.not to mention ,those terrorists in France are from sunni who US and NATO has been helping them all the time in middle east.
they dont exist,its just label given by US to some hundreds of bands,some criminal,some radicals,but most of them allied to isis and al nusra.
somethings tells me France might increase anti assad policy instead.hope am wrong.

Hollande I thought was smarter, for a man who is the leader of one of the most economically affluent countries in Europe and the world to respond to a mass murder the way he did was pathetic. His boasting of something along the lines of France being the leader of world's democracy... (typical egotistical western style of muscle flexing) and then ending the nonsensical speech by phrase worthy of kindergarten that echoed the emotive gangster style revenge spit of a child promising to avenge his friend for his misfortune at the nearby playground was the dumbest thing I heard in some time. "The response will be merciless" or something like that, but very similar is what he said, instead of grounded, prudent response he vows to perpetuate the circle of war, and this is France's president he he, the same man who makes most decisions in EU, God help us all.

Politicians are acting like that because sombody pulls their strings not because their are idiots. Looks who is big, greedy and filthy rich in whose (not necessary a person) interest certain action of the French government would be beneficial and profitable and you will find your culprit.

Since USA attacked a string of countries just because they could, all bets are off.

Merged: A Syrian refugee army should fight for Syria - Waszczykowski

Formin Witold Waszczykowski was reported by Wprost as saying Polish troops would not be sent to Syria. At the same time, he suggested forming an army from able-bodied Syrian refugees, something like the Polish Legions of yesteryear. "Can anyone imagine us sending troops to fight for Syria, when several hundred thousand Syrians are sipping espresso Unter den Linden in Berlin and observing how we fight for their secuirty?"

I can imagine sending troops to fight in Iraq for some $$$ and to please the US

LOL - who is this clown? Nobody is sending troops to Syria. It is inviolate, another unwinnable war, and the Syrians are a warlike people, unlike the Iraqis, who are not a country. So even more unwinnable in that sense.

If he had have done his homework, instead of playing dumb like the American Bush administration NeoCons, he would realise that for Syrians to actually flee their homeland, which has never happened, even in the murderous days of Assad (the Great Leader), things must be pretty grim - and a large number of them have no intention of going back to that hell.

umm errr...and who are they gonna be fighting against? Assad?or Rebels?or ISIS?most of them immigrants are sunnis,they will never fight ISIS as US rebel training program showed.and they are cowards to fight Assad.those are benefit seeking cowards.nothing less or more

A lot of sunnis factions fight against Isis

most of them dont. if do,only for power in region.and rarely.there was like 1 or 2 battles when Rebels fought against ISIS in Syria.hundrets of battles when they fought alongside vs Assad.US spent hundreds million dollars trying to recruit syrian sunnis to fight ISIS.they found 5 people willing to do so.same problems in Iraq,with soldiers running away leaving behind gear to ISIS.

Such generalizations don't work in real life. There are no clear black and white lines in Syria, and the person mixing it all up is Assad, ultimately to his advantage. Anyway, I am following your thread with interest gregy741.

yea.i gathered that much.am not very familiar in middle east religious and cultural make up of this region.but i guess if not black and white its still very important factor.

am not sure its him.he does what any president would do.he defend his position and order in country.
i think SA,Qatar and Turkey are the ones to blame for this disaster.mind you,Al Nusra was created and founded by Turkey, and SA.if not them there would be no civil war in Syria.Moderates are patheticly weak and divided into hundred groups with different affiliation.Al Nusra glue them together and are front line troops.
Westeners say ,if Assad is removed conflict will end..Really? i doubt..look at Lybia after Gaddafi.I think Assad is is the only leader in Syria who can bring stability.reason si that he has strong support even among sunnis.and thats important.

Merged: Poland's foreign minister proposes forming army out of the Syrian men arriving in Europe

Poland's new foreign minister has proposed forming an army out of the Syrian men arriving in Europe which could then return to their homeland to fight for freedom:

telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/11998766/Polands-foreign-minister-propos es-forming-army-out-of-the-Syrian-men-arriving-in-Europe.html

The German Tagesschau reported as well. Use Google for translation and read the comments. Interestingly, most readers wholeheartedly agree with Waszczykowski - giving a taste of what's really going on in Germany.

meta.tagesschau.de/id/105370/polens-aussenminister-fordert-syrische-fluechtlingsarmee

99% of commenters on Yahoo US (presumably Americans) also agree with Waszczykowski and support Poland's stance on "refugees"!

Fantastic idea. It would be a rather large army too. Most of these so called refugees are young men of conscription age. It would also give them a chance to see their wives they left behind in syria at the hands of isis.

great..as soon i they land in Syria,they will join ISIS.as always.done before.learn

Terrorism supporting Turkey shot down Russian bomber.Turkey attempt to lie about Russian jet being on its territory and ignoring 10 warnings doesn't even make sense.lets hope Russia pay back those idiots.high time to deal with terrorist founders.

must see,all you need to know about moderates and US policy...funny video,just epic:

youtube.com/watch?v=mtQZwXOb3_Q

Turkey air defense spokesman said they did not know downed jet was Russian.more madness from Turkey.i think they dont know anymore, which lie to stick to.trying different version.say sorry and pay compensation idiots.hiding behind obama not gonna help.
news.yahoo.com/west-urges-escalation-turkey-shoots-down-russian-plane-082736643.html
it looks like turkey is having chicken moment

yes. They are terrified