Let's debate American Politics

Wrong, Johnny! Just another rationalization of yours simply in order to justify some crazed yahoo from the boonies to go trigger-happy and kill other people:-)

Man is considered the ONLY animal which kills for pleasure aka hunters, excepting those tribes which kill for food or clothing to keep warm. Hunter-gatherers are of course another matter entirely.

No dice, pal! You lost yet another "argument"!

I saw a funny bumper sticker yesterday. It was a Hispanic dude driving a minivan and he had tons like navy, patriotic, etc. stickers on the back. One of them read 'guns kill people just like spoons cause obesity' or something to that effect.


Have you ever owned a cat that's let outside? If they catch a mouse they will torture it all day long - release it to catch it again, bat at it with its paws, etc. Most of the time they won't even kill the chipmunk, mouse or whatever they hunt. My cat would bring back dead mice into the house all the time as a sort of weird present to me. Eventually he got the point that I didn't want any such presents and stopped bringing them inside the house but all the time I'd find dead tortured mice and chipmunks.

Same with dogs - when they catch a rabbit or fight with a cat they generally eat it.

This is typical of Gun Grabbers brainwashers one liners.
Hell kids today are even being taught that guns are a bad thing instead of being taught how to handle them safely.
Gun safety should be a required course in the grade schools.

@johnny reb

I got my first gun as an xmas present when I was 12. A Czech-made KBKS .22LR. I've been around guns my whole life and I'd never dream of shooting someone, lest they invade my home and threaten me or my family of course.


That's because common core books have totally mutilated what the 2nd amendment actually says. The books state that the 2nd amendment, among other untruths, is the right for states to form a milita and the right to bear arms if the person has never been to prison and they register their firearms.

looks at these monstrosities

thefederalistpapers.org/second-amendment-2/common-core-textbooks-teaching-bald-faced-lies-about-the-2nd-amendment

tangofoxtrot.net/2014/03/23/what-text-books-are-teaching-our-kids-about-the-second-amendment

its no wonder American kids are so dumbed down and brainwashed. That's why I'm going to raise my family in Poland.

Well look who the United States has teaching in our educational systems........Commie Liberals so what can we expect.
People are saying that something has changed in the U.S. ever since the Commie's took God and prayer out of the schools.
Does it take a genius to connect the dots ?
Dumbing down is exactly what the Commie's are doing by brainwashing our youth against what made America Great.
People have caught on and that is why they elected President Trump to Make America Great Again.
That is why these Commie's are having such a major meltdown that Teflon Trump got elected.
He stands for everything that they are against.
The Commie's goal is to destroy America just like osama tried so hard to do.

Groups like antifa and such are stating that they are planning nation wide unrest for November 4. Resist fascism's website is advertising such a message as well. They want to remove the 'fascist' Trump regime by 'any means necessary' which includes violence. These aren't peaceful groups as we've seen time and time again them throwing bricks, water balloons filled with urine, paint, stabbing people, beating them with sticks, flagpoles, etc. They are a nasty bunch and should be classified as domestic terrorists due to all the violence, arson, vandalism, etc they've caused.

An individual infiltrated an antifa group and recorded their meeting. They openly discuss of violence, stabbing people, asking their fellow comrades if they've yet purchased a gun, etc. No msm wanted to discuss this video. Ben Shapiro however took the time to discuss it. This is fairly recent if you google 'antifa' several articles on this will pop up.

The men of my generation and before (as well as older generations but more so the liberal city dwelling types) have been turned into cuckolded, feminine, b1tches. There's no semblance of manliness left in them. The worst thing is, more and more this demasculinization agenda is being pushed more and more.

There's a great article about one of the leaders of the black panther movement discussing how awful BLM is. Black panthers actually tried to help their communities - free food, legal help, citizen militia to prevent police brutality, etc. The BP leader said that BLM has a sort of 'massa, if youze just treat me right I'd behave.' Meanwhile, they do NOTHING as far as reducing violence and poverty in their own communities.

The issue isn't really whether owning guns makes us safer, but instead, what motivates us here in the States to feel that random (or focused) use of said weapons will solve our problems!

The culture or conversation can't start in adolescence, it must start practically from the cradle. By the time kids are teens, dude, it's already waaayyyy too late.

@Lyzko

No one said though that guns or lack there of will solve our problems.

I posted about this very same thing awhile back Adrian.
Just one more thing the Commie Left is dumbing down America with.
They want the men to become a passive bunch of fems so they are no threat to the Commie agenda.


Absolutely as they have outlawed the good old bare knuckled fist fights that taught manliness.
Here is where I posted it.
https://polishforums.com/love/told-men-chivalrous-bunch-72365/2/#msg1610597

And yet, Dirk, sadly it seems that too many folks out there tend to blame the victim rather than the perpetrator! If Paddock hadn't had access to such an arsenal, then he wouldn't have been able to cause such damage, n'est pas?

Not ever being in the military and never owning a gun just how would you know that Mark ?
Arsenal.....lol
Just one AR-15 with a tri-pod and a couple of thirty shot magazines could have easily done that kind of damage since he had an hour non stop to do it.

Notice how you non military, non gun owner Liberal gun grabbers suddenly become authorities on subjects you have been dumbed down (brainwashed) to.

Facts are really troubling things. Like, the fact that only 3% of homicides in the United States are committed with rifles. I think there is some room for negotiation on gun laws, but the left should really spend some time educating themselves that we actually take them serious. For one, it would be useful to stop using the term 'assault rifle,' which is not applicable to most rifles on the US market, save for class 3's. They have a penchant for making up words for things that aren't real i.e. - hate speech, white privilege, etc.

I could certainly get behind a more rigorous mental health screen for obtaining a firearms purchaser card, in exchange for eliminating any and all state and federal gun registry databases. If the left is not willing to make any compromises to achieve higher scrutiny of gun owners, it is a non starter, and we may as well all go home. If we do screen for mental health, we would need to be very careful in how we class it, and exempt all military veterans with PTSD from being denied their god given rights.

You mean like the fact that the homicide rate in the USA, where guns are readily available, is more than six times higher than homicide rate in Poland, where guns are fairly tightly controlled? Amazing to see how safe all those guns are keeping y'all.


Is that a right set forth in the old testament or in the teachings of Jesus?

@Harry

The FBI reports that guns are used to save someones life 1.5 million times per year, the vast majority of that time the gun is never fired and its mere presence ends the conflict. I understand that sentiment, but you are depriving millions of people of the right to a lawful self defense. In fact, I would take the argument more seriously if gun control advocates like Nancy Pelosi would show up to rallies WITHOUT an armed security detail. As soon as she does that, I will actually consider turning over my own guns, but until then we really don't have anything to discuss.

There are a number of very sensible regulations we can put into place as a barrier to purchasing weapons. I know that you don't really understand US politics on this subject, so let me tell you that any attempt to restrict the type of weapon or the quantity someone can possess is an absolute non-starter. Instead, we have to focus on what we can control, which is implementing a mental health screen before someone is issued with a firearms purchaser card, and making them undergo that screen every 4-5 years for renewal. We would obviously exempt our military veterans with PTSD and those people with other things classified as mental illness such as social anxiety, eating disorders, etc, which do not make people a danger to others. I think we can actually accomplish that if we dispense with the hyperbole about an outright ban, or banning rifles, etc.

I want to see reform as much as anyone, when people do these horrible things, it puts into question the entire gun community and my ability to defend myself with the most efficient means available.

To your second point, no it is not outlined in the bible, instead the founders say "We hold these truths to be self-evident."

That's right. US gun policy is dictated by the vested interests of the gun lobby, including the NRA and gun manufacturers. If I lived in a US city, I'd want a gun. As it is, I live in Poland, a country with no discernable problem with gun abuse. I am happy to forego the right to amass a collection of lethal weapons, as are most people here in Poland. Most of us like the status quo. The lobby for wider access to firearms in PL is also a non-starter.

Homiicide rate does not depend on the guns control only. For example, the homicide rate is much higher in Hungary than in Poland despite the fact that guns are tightly controlled there, too.

Thanks for trying to take part in this discussion. Your effort has given me the chance to point out that while you are right that the homicide rate in Hungary is higher than that in Poland (1.48 per 100,000 there compared to 0.74 per 100,000 here), the number of guns is also much higher in Hungary than here in Poland (5.5 per 100 residents there compared to 1.3 per 100 here). So more guns and by some complete co-incidence more murders too. Of course, the USA has more guns per 100 residents than Hungary and by another of those freak co-incidences, it also has more homicides than Hungary too!

Really? So everybody who wants one can buy a portable nuclear weapon and a cannon to launch it from?


Interesting that you are OK with things that the bible doesn't give the green light to (such as owning firearms) but, one hopes, oppose things which the bible says is just fine, e.g. slavery and executing unruly children.

@Harry

So much for not engaging in hyperbole, quite clearly I was only referring to firearms.

I never quoted the bible, you may want to reread what I wrote previously. You seem to have really strong opinions on this topic, but unless you pay US taxes I really think that your opinion is irrelevant. If I start advocating for increased gun ownership in Poland or the UK then perhaps what you say would matter. The fact is, when you speak in the rather condescending and snide way that you do, you make right leaning centrists like myself just walk away from the table. Of course we will not speak with people who presume to chastise, lecture, and ridicule us. I put forth what I believe to be the most common sense gun legislation that has a realistic possibility of passing the senate and house, and saving lives. You want to engage in hyperbolic statements and veiled insults. So if you are looking for a confrontation, go look for it elsewhere mate.

Excellent post Sig.
Understand that these ex-pats who oppose us here also mocked the United States and our terror attacks with rational how safe the E.U. was compared to the United States before terrorist attacks became a weekly thing in the E.U.

Then when the E.U. started having terrorist attack after terrorist attacks these same ex-pats suddenly went quiet on the subject.
Now these ex-pats are boasting about how safe their host country Poland is (and not their home country because they can't) and are starting to understand that the police can not protect you and that you have to protect yourself.

While they afford the low crime rate in Poland today we both know that it is just a matter of time like it was in London, Paris and Brussels before the cancer spreads into Poland too.

Where will these ex-pats retreat then..... where they can afford to live on a dime where it is safe ?


First you would have to pass the back ground check and then you would have to learn how to load it.
What do you fear in a U.S. city anymore than being in London without a gun Rog ?

My dad was in the Big One, obviously learned to fire a gun/rifle etc. and was both a proud vet, patriot, and ANTI-gun fanatic:-))

Having been in the military doesn't have to make someone pro-firearms.

@Harry

A 'homicide' rate doesn't meant they were killed by guns as there are plenty of other weapons that can be used to kill someone.

Also, Switzerland has one of the highest rates of gun ownership yet one of the lowest rates of violent crime/murder/etc. How do you explain that one?

nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Violent-crime/Murder-rate-per-million-people

@johnny reb
As far as background checks required to own a firearm that's not totally true. A person can easily purchase a gun in a state where private party sales don't require such a check. They only require the person to show the private seller an ID to prove they are from that state (which many don't ask). Nonetheless, possession of a firearm by a felon is a huge crime and can result in many years in prison. Generally though that's how criminals (most of whom tend to have a felony record) purchase their guns.

A lot of the illegal guns especially the 1911 Cold 45's are actually hand made in the Philippines and look just like the real thing but with a bogus serial number.

nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Violent-crime/Gun-crime/Guns-per-100-residents

Some surprises at the top of the list - Cyprus, Finland, Canada, Norway, Uruguay - countries with high rates of gun ownership yet countries that are generally considered safe, low crime, low homicide rate, etc.

So you think that everybody has a God-given right to own an M134 for every day of the week and two for Sundays?


Dry up jimmy, some of our countries have been suffering from terrorist attacks since the days when you were still in grade school punching nuns in the face. More than a few of those attacks were funded by people from your country too.


Please stop with the lies, jimmy.

@Harry

You fail to understand that in the US in order to legally own an automatic you have to have a special ATF issued license which a civilian can obtain if they have a flawless record and perform the required tasks. You can't just legally buy a full auto with a simple FOID card. Yes, there are people who even own 20 mm cannons and anti-aircraft guns - which they purchased legally and took the time and money to comply with the extremely rigorous ATF licensing and all.

If you want to legally purchase and own a gun, yes you have to have a FOID card which requires a background check. You may be able to purchase one illegally from a private party who doesn't bother to check your ID, but the moment it's in your possession without a FOID card it's a felony.


Not Poland. That's why we don't want to become like other countries especially France who had more terrorist attacks from 1968-2006 than Afghanistan did. Now it's even worse - in those 40 years France never was in a 2+ year long state of emergency like they are now. Every single day there's robberies, rapes, assaults, committed mostly by the migrants who arrived recently. It's everyday common occurrences there - that's why they don't make the news and only the terror attacks do - like the recent one on Sunday where an Allah Akbar shouting male killed two women - with a KNIFE.


You are correct. Israel/US/UK have funded proxies including ones who use terrorist tactics. All powers do though from North Korea, to Libya, to Russia, to US, to UK, etc. Hardly any state is innocent in this regard.

Hairy fails to understand a lot of things when he spews his odious abrasive hate.


One that you could carry concealed upon yourself around the city.



Thanks for trying to take part in this debate Hairy but which lies are those ?
Since you don't live in the great United States of America and were born in Australia and fetched up in a Catholic boarding school in the U.K. I understand your ignorance when trying to take part in this debate.

Yes Hairy, to purchase or conceal carry a handgun around the city in America as Roger was referring to, you most certainly have to pass a back ground check.

No one is suggesting that you are full of hate, little green apples and B.S. we are just saying........
Don't you have a bicycle flat tire to fix at your shop or some beer testing to do this evening ?

@Harry

I get the feeling that you have some kind of selective listening problem, where you extrapolate things from conversations that were not said or implied, for the purpose of making some sort of bombastic statement. I suppose that this kind of shouting over someone and thinly veiled smug condescension sometimes wins arguments or you're able to guilt someone with rather weak convictions via brow beating. Unfortunately, I am not such an opponent in this argument. I never said I THINK someone should own one weapon or the other, I only stated what had any reasonable CHANCE of passing the house and senate, because I WANT to see gun reform passed that will reduce this incidences. We could pontificate all evening about what either of us "want," but the only thing that matters is what has a reasonable chance of becoming law. My opinion on other matters of the 2nd amendment are somewhat irrelevant as are yours, the only opinion who matters ultimately is the Supreme Court of the United States of America. They have settled any matters about the meaning and spirit of the 2nd amendment in DC v. Heller.

Once again you COMPLETELY ignore my point regarding your opinion of US law. Do you see me frothing at the mouth to have parliament pass a law allowing UK citizens to conceal and carry a firearm? It certainly wouldn't be a half bad idea considering that the entire country seems to have Stockholm Syndrome and be inviting in their down cultural destruction with the now proven failure of forced multiculturalism with emigres from countries who despise the liberal values that us Americans, Europeans, Aussies, and Kiwis hold so dear. However, that would be extremely rude of me, as I still recognize those countries as sovereign, and believe those citizens may govern themselves however they wish as its none of my business. Furthermore, I would prefer someone like you who lives in Poland(or the UK) and lives under the blanket of protection that MY country and people like ME provide for you people, when we pay the vast majority of NATO's budget would rather just put a sock in it and say, "Thank you!"

Things are unlikely to change any time soon, so long as states such as Nevada, and many others I'm sure, fail to see the connection between lax gun laws and irresponsible, indeed reckless and slipshod training in the use of those firearms.

Stop with the lies jimmy, there are numerous states which require no permit at all to carry concealed firearms. Although I'm not sure how one would conceal the M134 sig seems to think Americans have a God-given right to own.

@Harry

Alaska and Vermont are the only two states that don't require a permit for conceal and carry. Did you want to try again? You should be mindful of what you say to your betters mate.