Let's debate American Politics

Poor guy. Believes in the honesty of Republicans, yet their lies are repeatedly exposed.

If you're so honest, you'll have nothing to hide by revealing the data. Have you given it to Trump yet?

I meant honest Americans, nobody wants their private info going into a huge database Dem, Rep or Independent.

I like how you try and deflect, its comical at best you trying to hide all that hatred inside. Typical liberal!

Too bad nobody gives a $hit what you think!! LOL

So you're now admitting that there are valid reasons for Democrats not to want it?


Don't worry, we all know that you'll be struggling to pay those healthcare bills. Those of us in Europe will no doubt laugh at your misfortune!

Not valid reasons, but Illegal, as in ILLEGAL VOTER FRUAD!!!!

The Dems don't want anyone to find out, get it???

You're not that bright after all, go meltdown on your teen forums!

I really love how you haven't actually presented any evidence for your claims, just some vague nonsense about Republicans being honest and Democrats not being honest.

Don't worry. We all know the truth, that both Republicans and Democrats alike want nothing to do with this stupid idea.

As I stated back in post 282, glad you finally comprehend it......whew!

Nor do I. So why did Trump's voter fraud commission ask for that sensitive data in the first place?


Rightly so, most of the time. The huge national debt (when Obama took over), the "Great Recession" and the war in Iraq were all on GWB and his GOP cronies.

No doubt so they could perform deep analysis of the data. There's plenty of information out there about how social media in particular was manipulated to hell by Trump's campaign, and being able to really dig into such information would be invaluable for Trump in the next election campaign.

There's a great article here - ft.com/content/bee3298c-e304-11e6-9645-c9357a75844a

@TheOther

The huge national debt when Obama took over? What are you talking about? Obama at least TRIPLED the amount of debt he inherited from bush.

2Nd yes the war in Iraq was a mistake bush made. Obama made it worse by basically appointing a Shia dictator to take place of a Sunni one without giving a thought on power sharing amongst 2 parties. 2Nd he withdrew all the troops without keeping a decent amount to help ensure a smooth transition.. Then the junior league Isis happened...

Let's see:

George W. Bush added $5.849 trillion of debt (even though he inherited a budget surplus of $128 billion). That's a 101% increase from the $5.8 trillion debt at the end of Clinton's last budget in FY 2001. Obama added $7.917 trillion of debt, which is a 68% increase from the $11.657 trillion debt at the end of George W. Bush's last budget, FY 2009. That includes $253 billion for the Economic Stimulus Act that was necessary to avoid a real depression caused by the Republicans.

Sorry, mixed up Bush's Economic Stimulus Act and Obama's American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. The $253 billion should really count towards Bush's deficit.

Bush doubled Clinton's debt and Obama tripled that figure. Obama added 9.3 tril in debt. Obama ended with around 19 20 tril added to debt.If you add all unfunded pensions the figure balloons to 50 70 or even more trillion. The republicans didn't cause the recession too much speculation on subprime mortgages did. Also it took both dems and reps to vote on a bailout package. Blaming one side whether dems or reps is foolish and incorrect.

Actually here are more exact numbers:

cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/debt-under-obama-9000000000000

No matter how you look at it Obama added more to the debt than any other president and more than the last few combined. Things still aren't any better in the us because of his bogus stimulus plan. Now a bunch of states and cities are either totally broke or about to be. Actually the more conservative places like Georgia Tennessee Texas idaho w. Virginia Alaska the Carolinas etc have balanced budget and low or even no income tax.

If the dollar ever stops becoming the world currency it'll all come crashing down.

Wrong.

Debt at the end of Bush's term: $11.657 trillion
Obama added $7.917 trillion

The sum of both numbers is your gross US federal government debt of $19.5 trillion for FY 2017.

@TheOther

I wrote 'obama finished his term with around 19 tril in debt' meaning the us finished his term with 19 20 debt in total.

Bush added far less debt than Obama and that's a fact. Furthermore he had balls he didn't let putin and Assad walk all over him. Obama is a b1tch - maybe thats why he married a woman with shoulders like a man. They laughed at his 'red line' and his threats lol. Then they tried arming 'moderates' to the tune of half a billion for only a few dozen Syrians to actually come out of the program. We still don't know what happened with the tens of millions of usd of weapons but analysts say they most likely went to al nusra al qaeda etc. Not to mention his a123 battery failure. If I wrote a book on Obama's achievements the first 10 pages would be decent policies followed by several hundred pages filled with failure after failure after failure. Budget - failure, economy(still in shambles and barely growing) failure, border security -failure, Syria/iran/Russia policy - failure, taking money out of Medicare to give it to welfare recipients, his stimulus package which no one I've ever met benefited from - failure, his whole 8 years was disappointment after disappointment. That's why people chose trump or Obama's sec of state. They were sick of the status quo. I'm sure you saw the map bleed red on election night. Outside of perhaps Chicago and the west coast most people hate obama. And even the Mexicans in those cities hate him because he talked about 'immigration reform' only to deport more Latinos than bush and Clinton combined as well including people I know.

He's useless. You say 7.9 trillion I say 9.0-9.3 tril... Either way he added more debt than any other president in history (and hopefully ever will) and more than Clinton and bush combined. The intellectual who was too smart for his own good and never listened to his advisors.

Ill never forget the idiots jumping up and down after his re-election exclaiming Obama is gonna pay their mortgage! We don't have to work - Obama will take care of us!

You forgot to mention the Obamaphone. Every drug dealing thug had one!

youtube.com/watch?v=tpAOwJvTOio

Remember this classic? LoL

Im so glad Obama is gone!

Trump is doing a great job reversing these horrible policies and Making America Great Again!

The nitpicker in me says that you wrote 'Obama ended with around 19 20 tril added to debt' - meaning that he added 20 trillion to the debt that Bush left him... :)


Add the $ 1.1 trillion cost (current estimate) for our involvement in Iraq and the enormous medical bill for the veterans who served there, and the picture looks very different. Not to mention that the GOP would have let our car and banking industries fail during the Great Recession which would've left millions of people without a job. Culling the herd Ayn Rand style - that's what the RepubliCons in D.C. love.


Well, that's the Electoral College for you. You know, that thing that Trump branded a 'disaster for democracy' after the 2012 election. If you go by the popular vote on the other hand ... ha ha ha.

I would love for them to go through all the state election tallies and find the 2 to 3 million Illegal voters. The Democrats will fight this tooth and nail to never see the light of day, but we all know why...

I wonder how many Illegals voters there were in these Democrat Sanctuary Cities?

One of these days the Dems will have to come to fruition that they lost the election and their party is in shambles.

Until then, the Reps are going to keep winning and winning!

4 to 0 in special elections so far, even after the DNC pumped millions of $$$ into the carpetbagger campaigns they still couldn't win anything!

I can't wait for the 2018 midterms, the Reps are going to clean their clocks, and then watch an even bigger Meltdown!! ha ha ha.

@TheOther

What are you talking about bush bailed out the banks during the recession not obama... This literally happened the week of the market crash when bear Stearns and aig went broke. That was one of the last things Bush did as president.. Obama later signed a bogus stimulus package that wasted even more money on things like unsuccessful green energy programs like a123 battery and fisker. Once they realized it was fubar they sold it to the Chinese only to realize later hey wait we dumped too much money into a123 lets buy it back! Well the Chinese profited hundreds of millions just by holding onto aig for half year, year.

Also yes businesses that aren't competitive should be allowed to fail. Why reward a failing business with more money? Ford didn't take Obama's bogus TARP money and they have a far healthier balance sheet now than Government Motors who took the most money. And what about Obama's precious fisker motors? Bankrupt a long time due to being possibly the most unreliable car made in history. Car and driver couldn't even properly test the car because it suffered a catastrophic breakdown - a first in c and d history. Failures ought to be allowed to fail... There's no trophies for a failure although wait now there is thanks to our messed up society - participation trophies!

The problem is when you reward mediocrity and failure and always bail someone out there's no incentive for that person or company to strive for better. If I got paid the same amount for doing a crappy job and a good job and there's no risk at all of me getting fired why would I exert myself needlessly?

I don't get something though. You want to do away with coal, oil and say well those people will have to find jobs elsewhere because its not competitive, its an old system etc.. We don't need it... But rescuing the garbage that Dodge and GM churned out for years is fine so people don't lose their jobs? They made inferior cars to the japs koreans and Germans for years now they had to pay the price. Well ford at least got their sh1t together and makes good cars again. Remember the pt cruiser lol dealerships were basically giving those cars away. Perhaps those gm and dodge Chrysler guys should have lost their jobs too and worked for a company with cleaner more efficient cars like Honda or Toyota. But no coal is evil, union workers paid $35 an hour to press a button or two for 8 hours is not. I could train one of my grandpas homing pigeons to do their job for Pete sakes.

Also Medicaid Medicare and government healthcare like Obama care va etc is already included in that 19 billion dollars debt. There isn't additional debt for treatment a soldier would receive through va Medicaid obama care etc that isn't included in this figure. What isn't included is pension funds because if they were the debt would be closer to 50-70 trillion with some analysts estimates as high as 90-200 trillion.

Well, 44 states are refusing to hand over the data. Do the red states have to hide something? Maybe extensive voter suppression? I guarantee you, there are no 2 to 3 million illegal votes as Trump claims. Losing the popular vote bruised his little ego, just like the not-so-bigly crowds at his inauguration.


I agree with you. The Dems won't turn the tide in the midterms because they have no reputable leader at the moment. The GOP will destroy itself though if they cannot find a way to control the chaos in the WH.


Yes, until their voters find out that they got sold to the highest billionaire bidder. Then it's payback time.

@TheOther
Actually in the us as long as you have a drivers license you can vote(at least in sanctuary cities). However you don't have to be a citizen to get a license. That means one doesn't have to be a citizen to vote.

There are far more jobs at risk in the car industry, its supply chain and dealerships than in the prehistoric coal industry. In a recession (which could've easily turned into a major depression), securing millions of jobs is imperative. There's no room for experiments under such circumstances. GM has adjusted and turned its business around since then - providing jobs for 225.000 people worldwide which would have otherwise been lost.

You have to register to vote and provide ID. A legal alien who is not a citizen would face imprisonment and deportation, if (s)he would show up at the polling station. You believe a vote in an election would be worth the risk for these people? Don't think so.

No because if they got deported they would be back within a week.
The false i.d. that they have today looks very real.
They are being deported quietly by the thousands by the week since Trump took the helm of responsibility to uphold the laws of the land.

@TheOther

Not in sanctuary cities. People don't get deported here unless they're sent to a federal pen and then are only deported after completing their sentence. Also like I said if a person presents an id like and drivers license they're fine and you don't need to be a citizen to obtain one. It may differ state to state but that's how it is here.

Also you realize that just because a company declares bankruptcy that doesn't automatically close down right? Gm could have declared bankruptcy restructured and still provided said jobs.

I know a couple of ppl that have these licenses they're called TVDL and they can't vote. Its Illegal in Illinois and probably in every state as well.

Unfortunately, there is a lot of voter fraud including ghost voters and Illegal aliens.

cyberdriveillinois.com/departments/drivers/TVDL/home.html


Its because they want too much personal information, your address, what party your affiliated with and the worst IMO the last 4 digits of you SS#

With all the identification fraud going on, who wants to chance it?

@johnny reb

Hahaha your jones example cracked me up

The capitalist: if I work hard and save, ill be like the Jones's.

The communist: if I take a little bit of everyone's stuff, ill be better than the Jones's

... Only problem is now the welfare recipients are living better more financially stable lives than low wage workers.

Spot on, dude! Dirk, I wholeheartedly concur with your last post:-) No foolin'.

Haha thanks. I mean I respect the commies and socialists for trying. However it seems capitalism entrepreneurship and human spirit win out. Even look at modern day commie China. Its wealthy as hell, there's pretty free and fair trade - actually goods are very cheap, but there's also entreprenuership, religion, lots of opportunities all around, ultra modern cities and infrastructure, and even half decent free press although there is a bit of censorship that overly criticizes China and the party. All this and technically its considered a socialist one party state. Yet it differs so much from say communism/socialism one party systems like cuba, ussr, north korea Laos etc. However it seems that really China is the only enduring one party commie system that stood the test of time and is thriving. It seems that more often than not, communism/socialism and one party systems fail. Plus China is far from the traditional communist model of the ussr. They have like a weird capitalist communist one party fusion.

Socialism is NOT Communism, though! Sweden for example considers herself socialist, and yet even there, legal wealth is always possible. Problem arises when wealthy Swedes such as the tennis star Bjorn Borg had to up and move to Mallorca, Spain because the Swedish taxes were too high.

The Swedish model/idea is that with wealth and freedom comes responsibility. Doubtless this is a result of the country's strict Lutheran heritage and its emphasis on earthly suffering in preparation for the next life:-)