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European News Thread



Rich Mazur
14 Jan 2019  #1,201

Actually, people have been imprisoned in Russia for questioning Russian history.

Nobody is talking about what is allowed in Russia.
We are talking about what is allowed in the West and, for comparison, in the US. Your - and others' here - slave mentality is laughable and pitiful. I, on the other hand, am allowed, without fear of prosecution, to question and deny anything and everything in the US. You and others in Europe are not.

So, I win because setting up the Ministry of Truth and, across the street, the Ministry of Approved Feelings is a legal impossibility in "America".

Thank you, Almighty God and the US Constitution, for THAT.

Slavictor
15 Jan 2019  #1,202

beyond dispute...lies so shamelessly... Goes against all historical evidence

They've been nothing but disputed. Therefore, not lies at all, but challenges. Of lies, you've chosen to believe a big one - hopefully not willingly. He who owns the media, and wins the wars, scribes history.

This video produced by a then young jew didn't blindly believe what you do Tac. He decided to do his own sherlocking. Maybe he's a liar too, or self-hater?

youtu.be/Ae_WSV4n-u8

Bratwurst Boy
15 Jan 2019  #1,203

What do you get out of it if it hadn't been 6.000.000 murdered people but "only"...say....5.500.000 ?

Every victimized group tends to see their losses big and bigger...that's only natural. Poles make no difference...I remember reading about how the Poles after the war heightened their own losses by adding all the people "vanished" outside of "moved westwards" Poland like then Ukraine, Belorussia etc. They were no longer Poles or in Poland, right...but they weren't murdered either. Still they were included in the Polish deaths - list.

As I see it there will never be an exact number...how could it be. It is impossible to re-check the fate of every human being during this chaotic time, with so much destruction and with the cold war curtain coming down so soon. Especially with the Jews living all over the place.

6.000.000 is a symbolic number, it could be even more, there is nothing to fight about!

Rich Mazur
15 Jan 2019  #1,204

Agreed. And that is why it should never be used to prosecute people who want to use another "symbolic" number, higher or lower.

How can 3 million ever become a reason to throw somebody in prison?
What's next? Prison for global warming deniers? How about flat earth followers?

Bratwurst Boy
15 Jan 2019  #1,205

Agreed. And that is why it should never be used to prosecute people who want to use another "symbolic" number, higher or lower.

The thing is these higher-or-lower-number-people tend to sleep in one bed with the zero-number-people!

Here the problems start...

Hence my question...is a picking over the bones for a minimal change of the symbolic 6.000.000 worth to feed the denier?

Rich Mazur
15 Jan 2019  #1,206

In life, there are three categories of things we should not do: stupid, immoral and illegal. The zero idiots are in the stupid category right next to those who believe that the moon is actually another kind of cheese. No sense arguing with them.

The "only 100,000" guys are immoral as they know, or should know, that such estimates upset a lot of people. Still no reason to throw them in prison.

When this subject is discussed, there should never be an illegal group. Civil suits filed for slander or libel? Maybe. But criminal with the full power of the state coming down like a ton of bricks just because someone's feelings are hurt? No way.

My feeling are hurt every time somebody here claims I am a Russian troll. Well, actually, I don't give a s***. Just saying....

Bratwurst Boy
15 Jan 2019  #1,207

When this subject is discussed, there should never be an illegal group.....

I agree with you. But for Germany I also take my responsibility and accept that these things are handled here much tougher than I would otherwise accept with any other topic of discussion...

For a German it's never a clean cut situation...It's my people and my country....the poets AND the hangmen...no guilt trip but no cherry picking either!

If I were USian I would be with you! :)

Rich Mazur
15 Jan 2019  #1,208

And I am not going to pretend that I know how you guys feel when this stuff in on the table.
That 1st Amendment of ours is so addictive .... I sometimes forget how life is without it.
But I will say this, again: personally, you have nothing to feel bad about. And, no, you don't need my slap on the back.

Take care.

Tacitus
15 Jan 2019  #1,209

@Slavictor

Maybe he's a liar too, or self-hater?

Or both. Perhaps he was in a rebellious phase when he came to this conclusion and decided to stick with it. His views (according to Wikipedia) that there was no plan to exterminate the jews, that the genocide stopped in 1943 and that perhaps 4,000,000 is nothing anyone who had a proper look on the evidence would say.

With evidence I do not mean the "flashy" evidence tourists see in Ausschwitz, but the written evidence, testimonies and so on. The evidence is so overwhelming in this area that no historian can dispute them. If you are interested, I could recommend you a decent book about it, written by someone who has read all the documents, instead of some youtube videos where everybody can sprout his lies.

Crnogorac3
15 Jan 2019  #1,210

youtu.be/MCKEe5xWR4Q

Holocaust Hoax exposed by American pastor Steven Anderson

His views (according to Wikipedia) that there was no plan to exterminate the jews,

Explain then why there is not a single written order about this ever found? Surely some paperwork must have existed for such a vast and complex operation?

1

On the other hand, we have during this time works such as "Germany Must Perish" in which the American Jewish author Theodore N. Kaufman openly calls for genocide of the German nation through the castration of all German males after the war ends.

Hitler & the Nazis had a plan to transport the Jews to Madagascar, their Zionist leaders refused because their intention from the start was only to get their claws into Palestine. For them it was either Jerusalem or nothing.

Bratwurst Boy
15 Jan 2019  #1,211

Holocaust Hoax exposed by American pastor Steven Anderson

How did he do this?

On the other hand, we have during this time works such as "Germany Must Perish" in which the American Jewish author Theodore N. Kaufman

That is true and I know of that.

Hitler & the Nazis had a plan to transport the Jews to Madagascar,

That too! No secrets here...

But back to interesting Pastor Anderson....how exactly did he prove that the Holocaust is a hoax? Because just denying something doesn't make it go away...

....and why oh why are Holocaust deniers often such crazy nutters??? (Wants to execute all gays! Is banned from Britain and Canada!)

Here an interesting link where Andersons statements are refuted:

...Finally, even the leading deniers like Carlo Mattogno put the cremation rates of the Auschwitz ovens at 1 hour per body:....

....He even conceded that it could take much less than that:...

Pathetic...Anderson is even rebutted by one of his own fellows....

jon357
15 Jan 2019  #1,212

and why oh why are Holocaust deniers often such crazy nutters???

It goes with the territory. The Shoah is perhaps the most thoroughly documented period in modern history, with 'neutral' (if one can be neutral about that subject) eyewitnesses, with survivors and with documentation (including photographic) by those who perpetrated it. Signed confessions too from people who took part, and independent numerical estimates of victims which have been largely consistent over the decades.

Yet deniers, 'revisionists', 'critics' (all of them nutty as fruit bats) keep on with their pernicious and offensive nonsense. They aren't interested in truth at all.

Bratwurst Boy
15 Jan 2019  #1,213

What I would like to know...they don't care for the good name of Germany one bit, they don't deny all that because they somewhat want to white wash German history....

jon357
15 Jan 2019  #1,214

If any country has come to terms with its 20th Century past, it is Germany. Nevertheless, there are always people who want chaos, negativity and who are personally unstable enough to make outrageous claims. These are stoked by people outside Germany (usually Americans) who have not had to come to terms with the hard truths that people in Germany have had to deal with.

dolnoslask
15 Jan 2019  #1,215

And who have done very well, especially when you look at Russians who see their rape, pillage,murder across Europe as a badge of honour

Tacitus
15 Jan 2019  #1,216

Explain then why there is not a single written order about this ever found?

There are many orders and reports about the "succesful" elimination of jews. As to why no such order from Hitler was ever sound, there are many plausible explanations for this, which you will find in any good book about the Holocaust. A quick google search even suffices.

There are however several documents and testimonies that prove that the Holocaust was desired from the top. The Wannsee protocol. Himmler's speech in Posen. And so on.

Hitler & the Nazis had a plan to transport the Jews to Madagascar

Which was de facto a genocidal plan. Madasgacar, an island that back then could only sustain a few thousand people, mostly uninhabitable, full of deadly diseases. And they wanted to send millions of people there, who had never lived in such a clima, without proper supply and no existing infrastructure.

bolek_tusk
15 Jan 2019  #1,217

That being said there can be no doubt that the Nazis killed between 5.100.000 to 6.700.000 people during their genocidal campaign.

Does that include ordinary Poles (ie non Jews)?

I keep hearing that 6m Jews were killed by the Germans, but unless I am mistaken they also killed an awful lot of Poles, but they somehow get overlooked...

Rich Mazur
15 Jan 2019  #1,218

I have a question. No, I am not trolling so don't go there...

Before the real exterminations took place after 1939, it was obvious that Hitler wanted Jews out of Germany. Not killed. Just out. With all the violence against them, personally and their properties, all doubt was gone at some point. Why not just leave?

Second question: was there an economic or a power reason why Hitler wanted them out? Major events are usually triggered by one or the other or both. We interned Japs not because they were short and liked sushi.

Tacitus
15 Jan 2019  #1,219

@bolek_tusk
Many Jews were Polish and became victims of the Holocaust.

Lyzko
15 Jan 2019  #1,220

Even assimilated Jews found their way ineluctably to the Death Camps. That's really the crying shame of it all; try as many did, they weren't "pure" enough for the Nazis!

Slavictor
15 Jan 2019  #1,221

what is allowed in the West

Lets' not worry ourselves too much Rich, the USA is not to be left out. Soon Americans can experience the "inclusiveness" of censure, fines and jailtime for challenging the sacrosanct narrative, just like other tolerant and free countries of the West.

"House passes bill to force Trump to nominate "anti-semitism" head who would monitor criticism of Israel"

israelpalestinenews.org/house-passes-bill-to-force-trump-to-nominate-anti-semitism-head-who-would-monitor-criticism-of-israel

It has been clear for a very long time the Whitehouse (and D.C.) is a satrapy of Tel Aviv.

Miloslaw
15 Jan 2019  #1,222

You expose yourself too often......anti semitic neo Nazi that you are!
We all know your measure now.....

Slavictor
15 Jan 2019  #1,223

Nothing quite that dramatic. I just prefer to think independently. But do choose some other meaningless, moth eaten epithets next time for varietys' sake won't you?

Your response is like listening to Michael Moore, Hillary Clinton, NPR, Rachel Maddow, Tim Wise and Abe Foxman all at the same time!

Bratwurst Boy
16 Jan 2019  #1,224

Why not just leave?

Deep roots in their Heimat? Hope that this will be over soon like waking up after a dark nightmare? Not enough imagination that it could get even worse? No where to go because of lack of connections? Not at last defiance?

Young people might leave easier but what do you do with the old trees? You can't move them so easily anymore....

Rich Mazur
16 Jan 2019  #1,225

They will simply die, said Darwin. (s)

Miloslaw
16 Jan 2019  #1,226

I just prefer to think independently

Nothing wrong with that.

It is your motives that I question.

jon357
16 Jan 2019  #1,227

I just prefer to think independently.

People who feel the need to say that usually in fact do the opposite.

bolek_tusk
16 Jan 2019  #1,228

So, I win because setting up the Ministry of Truth and, across the street, the Ministry of Approved Feelings is a legal impossibility in "America".

From what we are learning the 'Ministry of Truth' has been in existence in the US for a long time. With all the surveillance which went on under Obama/Brennan/Clapper over the last 10 years you were really living in a 1984 world.

For God's sake, most of the US believes that Putin rules America, and has no idea about what is going on. The USA with its wholesale electoral fraud can truly be described as a banana republic.

jon357
16 Jan 2019  #1,229

Putin rules America,

He certainly rules Trump.

USA with its wholesale electoral fraud

Sadly, attempts to increase voter registration among the poorest citizens is frustrated by certain state officials who would lose office if the poor and minorities voted more.

bolek_tusk
16 Jan 2019  #1,230

Putin rules America

You really live in la-la land and are an excellent example of the 1984 world that currently exists in the US.

USA with its wholesale electoral fraud

Registered voters exceed the population in many parts of the US. The Dems would be unlikely to win if they could no longer rely on the votes of dead people.


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