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European News Thread



Dirk diggler
13 Jan 2019  #1,171

Ha! We are so indebted to China it's not even funny. Last time I checked the US destroyed Japan in ww2 and gave them billions upon billions to rebuild. Yet tkday they're the greatest creditor of the US with Chinese in 2nd. I highly doubt either will forgive the trillions we owe them.

I disagree. China basically has a one party system and they're going pretty damn well. Besides the modern world is far different than the times during one party states. Also, most governments throughout human history were one party systems in the form of monarchies. To say every state ruled by a monarch was a failure is inaccurate. Even today some of the richest Gulf states are one party monarchies and the average citizen lives better in places like uae, Qatar, etc than in USA/wesfern Europe. Not only do they make higher average incomes but the government gives them tons of stuff

Bratwurst Boy
13 Jan 2019  #1,172

Oh please...the super rich gulf states are one-trick-pony's, take away their oil and what is left?
WE made them rich in buying their oil. If we all would stop tomorrow buying from that they would be back to their old desert selfs in no time. (With only some tourism to sweeten their tents).

Oh and why have the oh so smart Chinese to steal the knowledge and the achievements of the messy West if they are sooooo successful on their own! Huh?

No, the modern capitalist democratic system is the most successful we ever had, and as long as we stay true to ourselves we will win.

Apropos debts, what will China do once we all stop paying?

Tacitus
13 Jan 2019  #1,173

Even today some of the richest Gulf states are one party monarchies and the average citizen lives better in places like uae, Qatar, etc than in USA/wesfern Europe.

The oil is soon running out though, and then they will have serious with keeping the population quiet. We can see this already with Saudi-Arabia, which has already started with reducing government aid tries to become a diversified economy with very limited success so far. And China will soon face some serious demographic and economic issues, once it is hit by the demographic decline in a few years. The Communist party receives its' legitmacy from the economic success of China, if that is challenged, it might be faced with domestic resistance.

Dirk diggler
13 Jan 2019  #1,174

WE made them rich in buying their oil.

Not only that, we found their oil for them. In the 1950's and before these countries were dirt poor. The tallest buildings were 2 story clay huts with no electricity or plumbing. We, meaning westerners, found the oil for them, gave them the technology to pump it out, and then bought that oil. It's been that way since the 50's-60's. If it wasn't for westerners they'd still be diving for pearls living on a dollar or two a day instead of building 5 star hotels and indoor ski resorts in the middle of the desert.

Oh and why have the oh so smart Chinese to steal the knowledge and the achievements of the messy West if they are sooooo successful

Because it's more practical and smarter to simply steal it and reverse engineer it for their specific purposes. It's like if you have the option to study for a month for a difficult exam or can get the answers from a student who took the class last semester, or design an airplane from scratch and spend millions upon millions on R&D and testing or simply copy a proven design, well most would chose the latter.

Apropos debts, what will China do once we all stop paying?@ Bratwurst Boy

Then they'll start taking ports, infrastructure, etc. like they have in numerous other countries. Uhuru Kenyatta borrowed a **** ton of money from the Chinese, much of which he kept for himself and his cronies, in order to hire Chinese companies to build stuff using some local Africans here and there as the help, and now the new government is struggling to repay the loans. So what are the Chinese going to do? Take the collateral - namely the ports. This is a very common Chinese strategy.

The US has experience with this already. For example, Illinois sold off a portion of a highway that connects Illinois to Indiana. The toll about a decade or so ago was 99 cents. Then it was sold/leased to a German company for something like 90-100 years. They immediately increased the rate up to $2.50. Now its over $5 for a passenger vehicle. A semi will pay over $40 - and that's just one way.

become a diversified economy with very limited success so far

That's because all they know is how to trade goods and run a store when they're not busy snackbaring 5x a day. They wouldn't have a clue on how to build an airplane or an MRI machine, or build an automotive factory. They hire primarily westerners for anything that's high tech, and people from phillipines, Pakistan, india, etc for construction, home health care and other jobs. They're basically giant gas stations pretending to be sophisticated countries.

MoOli
13 Jan 2019  #1,175

The oil is soon running out though

Who cares solar power is the way to go!Soon we will be discussing WATER barrel bidding export.

Tacitus
13 Jan 2019  #1,176

Much of the evidence we have about the holocaust and concentration camps comes from Soviet sources which are of course notoriously unreliable and extremely biased

This is objectively false. Most of the written evidence we have from the Holocaust is spread out in many German archives and consists of private diaries from soldiers, division diaries, letters, statistical reports and so on. People always point to the "flashy" evidence in the KZs, but the most reliable clues are the many written testimonies.

Furthermore the number of victims is only relavtively speaking in doubt. Historians have painstakingly connected the pieces, but because of unreliable population statistics and war time losses we will most likely never be able to give a perfectly accurate number. That being said there can be no doubt that the Nazis killed between 5.100.000 to 6.700.000 people during their genocidal campaign.

Bratwurst Boy
13 Jan 2019  #1,177

Because it's more practical and smarter to simply steal it

Okay....I leave here....I can't argue with a worshipper of a thief!

Dirk diggler
13 Jan 2019  #1,178

I'm not worshipping anyone, I'm criticizing westerners for being so stupid and allowing themselves to constantly getting punked. And it's onlt going to get worse. Look how soft today's western male is - imagine what future generations will be like

Bratwurst Boy
13 Jan 2019  #1,179

Well..it for sure did sound that way.

But maybe at least Poland is smarter than that:

Poland calls for 'joint' EU-Nato stance on Huawei after spying arrest

Country's foreign minister says both entities need to decide whether to exclude telecom giant from their markets

theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/12/huawei-sacks-chinese-worker-accused-of-spying-in-poland-wang-weijing

Go Poland! :)

Pressure on Germany as UK telecoms company shuns Huawei

dw.com/en/pressure-on-germany-as-uk-telecoms-company-shuns-huawei/a-46609010

Germany so sucks concerning the Chinese!

UK and Germany grow wary of Huawei as US turns up pressure

ft.com/content/6719b6b2-f33d-11e8-9623-d7f9881e729f

I mean what else does our gov still need...why are they hesitating???

Excluding a chinese giant powerhouse from our markets for misbehaving...that would a sure big sign!

imagine what future generations will be like

I always guessed we will be tinier than today, with big heads (more brain), matchstick bodies (less muscles), with hairless gray skin (evolution), extra long fingers (from all the typing on keyboards) and big dark eyes.

Dirk diggler
13 Jan 2019  #1,180

So basically even physically weaker... I'm not talking about thousands of years from now though. I mean the next few generations that will be in their 20's 30's 40's as people in those age groups alive today are in their 50's 60's 70's. It seems like the me me me syndrome and participation trophy mindset started with Gen X'ers and got really bad with Millennials and keeps getting worse. It's like a ******* race to see how far ultra liberal youth can push the envelope into more and more taboo things, then praise people for being 'brave' and seek to normalize it through media and teach it to the next generation. I predict that we'll see even more autistic people as rates keep going up and up, more kids changing genders before they've even hit puberty, even greater sense of entitlement, even lazier and at the same time birth rates will fall even less as more generations put off having kids or see having kids almost as a luxury or lifestyle that only upper-middle classes and above can afford (at least out of the people who plan for children and don't leave taxpayers to provide for them), even lower home ownership rates, near total destruction of the traditional family and traditional belief systems, culture/nationality/patriotism will be frowned upon even more - only if it's from a white country though, even less 'men' who know how to do something as simple as install a ceiling fan... I don't think the future looks so good personally in the west... the seniors here are lucky - they lived through the good times where all this weird ass **** wasn't ubiquitous and will die before they see the west becoming some sort of weird cultural Marxist utopia

This won't be just the US either it'll be Europe too....

The worst thing is the eco-nuts who argue white Europeans shouldn't have children since there's so many 'poor refugees' who want to come in and because we leave the biggest footprint while third worlders do not...

Slavictor
13 Jan 2019  #1,181

Holocaust-denier and apologist for Nazi

You've ticked a few trigger-word boxes which indicates your response is based in automatic reaction, not thought. Her math is correct whether read in the Kremlin or the Whitehouse. IOW, no amount of ad hominem or Alinskying can alter what she says to be correct.

Here's another "denier" to make your day (I think he is currently running a dental work Gofundme):

youtu.be/nxbV3RsyQwI

@ Miloslaw - "Slavictor should be ashamed of posting her video".

Not in the slightest. Milo, you object and that's fine. I won't send you to jail for it or ensure you are fired from your job.

Dirk diggler
13 Jan 2019  #1,182

Here's another "denier" to make your day (I think he is currently running a dental work Gofundme):

Sad that people just believe whatever they're told without ever questioning it. And when facts are presented that contradict their belief, they simply go with ad hominem attacks...

The Zionists even launched a message into space so that aliens know about their '6 million'.... these people never stop....

Maybe he's just being careful - afterall, he likely wouldn't want the thought crime police to arrest him for 'incitement for hatred' for discussing arithmetic.

This video triggered so many people that you can't comment, can't share, can't suggest it....

This is the modern world we live in - where truth and facts are becoming rarer and rarer due to being censored, and discussing them is punishable

Tacitus
13 Jan 2019  #1,183

You've ticked a few trigger-word boxes which indicates your response is based in automatic reaction, not thought.

I simply know this person from the media and have watched a few videos with her lies about the Nazis. If anyone betrayed a lack of thought it was your initial introduction of this woman:

A well spoken Elderly German woman, who lived through WWII,

Just to clarify, this woman married a Nazi official, denied the Holocaust and defended the German attack on Poland with the discrimination of Germans in Poland. She also hopes that a future German government will revise the border with Poland. This is the person you link as a source on a Polish forum. Well done.

Miloslaw
13 Jan 2019  #1,184

@Slavictor "Not in the slightest. Milo, you object and that's fine. I won't send you to jail for it or ensure you are fired from your job.".

I have nothing against freedom of speech,all for it.
But you should still be ashamed of posting that video.

delphiandomine
13 Jan 2019  #1,185

This is the person you link as a source on a Polish forum. Well done.

Doesn't it say everything about their real agenda? They couldn't care less that such a source wants bad things for Poland, just so long as it fits their own agenda.

Rich Mazur
13 Jan 2019  #1,186

I watched it and have questions. I would appreciate not being called anything if you chose to respond:
1. Are the revised lower estimates closer or further from the truth, in your opinion?
2. If closer, do you view these lower estimates as hostile to the Jews?

My comment is that fewer victims should be a reason to rejoice, not to send the claimant to prison. I truly and honestly don't understand that connection: fewer victims = more hate toward the estimator.

This whole thing reminds me how a woman accused her husband of abusing their daughter sexually. When the guy was proven 100% innocent, the bi**h was furious rather than relieved and happy that her daughter was never hurt.

Tacitus
13 Jan 2019  #1,187

1. Are the revised lower estimates closer or further from the truth, in your opinion?

I can't watch the video because it is blocked in my country, but as a rule of thumb, anyone who puts the number of murdered Jews below 5.100.000 is lying, because that is the lowest number that can be proven without any reasonable doubt. Most evidence suggest that the true number ist slightly below 6.000.000, though there are clues supporting estimates even above that.

My comment is that fewer victims should be a reason to rejoice, not to send the claimant to prison.

If that was based on serious historical research, than you are right. And you do not get send into prison if you put the number below the currently accepted estimation if you can back this up. In fact any historian who could do so would instantly become famous (and that kind of publicity is something every historian wants). However doing so is very difficult, because there is a ton of evidence that supports the current estimates (which is why they were accepted in the first place).

Rich Mazur
13 Jan 2019  #1,188

However doing so is very difficult, because there is a ton of evidence that supports the current estimates

Your response is shocking to an American. A video is blocked! Just like Radio Free Europe was jammed by the communists when I was there before 1966. Unbelievable.

Second point. I just don't know, but something tells me that if you wanted to research this subject, your government would not let you do that research or publish the results if they were lower than those officially approved. Kind of like researching if communism is actually beneficial in the USSR in 1950. Am I wrong?

delphiandomine
13 Jan 2019  #1,189

Of course they would, if it was done properly. Properly means making the research and source materials available to other historians, and as he says, it would be a sensation if a reliable lower number could be found. The fact that it hasn't suggests that there might just be some credibility in the 5-7 million number.

Rich Mazur
13 Jan 2019  #1,190

I don't believe it. They would say that, like with the global warming, Holocaust is a "settled science", so, no, thank you. The door is that way.

Any comment about my first point?

delphiandomine
13 Jan 2019  #1,191

I don't believe it.

Why would they have any reason not to allow legitimate research? Anything that helps to narrow down the number is worthwhile, as long as it's legitimate research.

Any comment about my first point?

Seems quite normal to me. Europe has never embraced American-style freedom of speech.

Rich Mazur
13 Jan 2019  #1,192

Seems quite normal to me.

That is terrible to admit and sad to say after the American effort to take down the Iron Curtain, the USSR and assure freedom of the Western Europe. As I wrote before, that was all wasted on you.

Tacitus
13 Jan 2019  #1,193

Your response is shocking to an American. A video is blocked! J

There is no reason to give certain people a platform to spread their lied and incite hatred. Allowing the Nazis the freedom to spread their lies unimpeded was one of the reasons why the Weimar Republic fell, and we learned from this. How much damage this can cause has furthermore recently proven by Brexit and the election of Trump as president. I used to think that people were smart enough to not fall for those lies, and thus those regulations were unnecessary. Now with social medias that can spread lies and hatred in seconds to thousands of people, those are desperately needed.

your government would not let you do that research or publish the results if they were lower than those officially approved.

That is not the case. Even during the first 20 or 30 years after WWII, when the German government appreciated it when the scale of German atrocities were not widely discussed, there were no attempts to influence the academic debate on this. The problem is that the scale of the Holocaust is so well-documented that no serious historians would ever deny it, so it is purely theoretical.

Rich Mazur
13 Jan 2019  #1,194

There is no reason to give certain people a platform to spread their lied and incite hatred.

Are you quoting a manual written by the East German Stasi or the talking points by the SA? Do you realize how ridiculous that justification sounds to an American?

And how sad it is to realize that so many good Americans died to eventually create a 1984 Europe with its Ministries of Truth?

delphiandomine
13 Jan 2019  #1,195

Do you realize how ridiculous that justification sounds to an American?

Many things sound ridiculous to Europeans, such as "prayers for victims" rather than "regulating guns".

Bratwurst Boy
13 Jan 2019  #1,196

There is no reason to give certain people a platform to spread their lied and incite hatred.

Thing is Tacitus, who decides what is what? Or better said, who watches the watcher?

Slavictor
13 Jan 2019  #1,197

@Tacitus
She is an elderly lady, and a well spoken one. That's obvious. I don't see your objection, especially since you haven't been able to watch the video. You might not like her but that doesn't detract from her presentation ability, let alone for someone near 90 years old. BTW, you can watch the video if you really want to. Watch it through duckduckgo, the search engine.

And, a "holocaust denier" is anyone who wants to fact check or dispute the established record. And established by whom, by what method? If anyone wants to dispute the facts involving the intentional mass deaths of 100 million russians, ukrainians or chinese this past century, they do not go to jail for it.

Holocaustianity is the only religion in the world whose penance requires the jailing of a person for disputing the events of a part of history. The whole concept is beyond absurd. Haversbeck is in jail for transgression of this state sanctioned "religion".

It's for no one to decide who can and can not say what they want.

delphiandomine
13 Jan 2019  #1,198

they do not go to jail for it.

Interesting manipulation of the truth.

Actually, people have been imprisoned in Russia for questioning Russian history.

Still, nice to see that you keep promoting a video by a woman who openly supports German aggression towards Poland.

Slavictor
13 Jan 2019  #1,199

Russia for questioning Russian history

Do tell. Therefore, if true, that means jailing a person for holocaustianic heresy is ok. Yes?

Tacitus
13 Jan 2019  #1,200

BTW, you can watch the video if you really want to. Watch it through duckduckgo, the search engine.

I meant that I can not watch the other video posted, but I do not see any merit in watching her video. Someone who lies so shamelessly over the past can not be trusted to say the truth about the future. If she can not get the numbers right that are beyond dispute, why should she be right in hypothetical scenarios?

"holocaust denier" is anyone who wants to fact check or dispute the established record.

This is untrue. A Holocaust denier is someone wo denies the facts against all logic to promote his ideology, do not add credibility to them. Haverbeck claimed that the Holocaust was a "myth" and that less than 500k jews were killed at most. This goes against all historical evidence.


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