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Malaysian Flight MH-17



johnny reb
11 Dec 2017  #1

Why the original thread of Flight M-17 was deleted is beyond me as many Polish members showed much interest in it.
Many members from all nations debated on who was responsible and how it was brought down.
The thread did get far enough along to prove that it was a Russian missile that brought it down to solve the "how".
A major breakthrough just surfaced in the news about "who" was behind it.
A semi retired Russian three star general was i.d. ordering actions before the passenger jet in 2014 was shot down over eastern Ukraine killing all aboard, an investigation team of reporting outlets has found.

A reporting team, made up of McClatchy and investigative websites Bellingcat (based in London) and The Insider (based in Moscow), identifies the general as Nikolai Fedorovich Tkachev.

His identification is potentially a breakthrough in a case that has frustrated Dutch and other investigators who have struggled for years to identify voices on a key phone intercept.

They may now be closer to decoding the chain of command that brought down the unsuspecting Malaysia Air Flight 17 traveling above 30,000 feet.
Hopefully ALL the people behind this will be brought to justice.

SigSauer
12 Dec 2017  #2

There is an abundance of evidence. There are cell phone intercepts between Igor Girkin (Strelkov) and Bez/Bezler(Devil), speaking about shooting down an Antonov, or wha they believed at the time to be a Ukrainian military transport, but which they later learned was a commercial airliner as people strapped to seats started to rain down. Strelkov posted to twitter "We told them not to fly in our airspace and now we've shot them down" (paraphrased). To make matters more insulting, Strelkov then advanced a typically Russian b/s theory, only meant to obfuscate and cause confusion, saying that he believed the bodies had been frozen from MH370, and then flown over the conflict zone to garner international attention. The missile was launched from the town of Torez, based on radar data. The Russian government has been caught out in lies several times, releasing pictures of a video game that they claimed was a satellite photo. Then they were caught faking radar data to fit their narrative, trying to claim that an SU-25 shot down the airliner, despite an SU-25 not being able to fly to 38,000 feet, or having the ability to fire air-to-air radar guided missiles.

We all know what the truth is. An SA-11 BUK takes roughly 1 year of training to operate, and requires several trained operators. These operators could only come from Russia, the fake rebels had no way to gain this technical expertise otherwise.

johnny reb
15 Dec 2017  #3

A reporting team, a journalist with Moscow's The Insider had numerous phone conversations with Tkachev.
The reporter, whose name is being withheld to protect him/her from public or private retribution, confronted the general with the findings and results of the audio analysis.

Of course he denied giving the order or even being in the area.
"No, no, no, I was not there," the 68 year old Tkachev told the reporter from The Insider.
The Russian government had no comment.
Five countries - Holland, Australia, Belgium, Malaysia and Ukraine in the special Joint Investigation Team formed to get to the bottom of the shoot down have been repeatedly thwarted by Russia, which has sought to smear the credibility of the Dutch investigators and their initial conclusion that a Russian missile brought down MH 17.

Russia successfully blocked efforts to create a U.N. body to investigate the incident, which would have compelled Putin to hand over those accused.
This Russian denial is not over yet.

johnny reb
19 Mar 2018  #4

A Ukrainian military pilot blamed by Russia over the 2014 downing of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 has killed himself with a pistol shot, Ukrainian media report, quoting police !

Why don't I believe this ?
msn.com/en-us/news/world/pilot-blamed-by-russia-for-mh17-crash-dies/ar-BBKpHQp?li=BBnbfcL

Slavictor
29 Mar 2018  #5

I've seen news reports and photos of the cockpit area of the airliner. It has cannon fire perforations from both sides of the fuselage. The Russians were blamed for this one before the plane even hit the ground. They didn't do this. I've mentioned in other threads that Russia is under a program of intense demonization, the latest of which is the Skripal business which also stinks. I've also mentioned in another thread, I'm not Russian - far from it.

jon357
29 Mar 2018  #6

There is an abundance of evidence.

Indeed, as there is in the Russian chemical weapons attack in Salisbury.

There is no credible doubt in either case, however much the Putinists and assorted conspiracy theorists would love there to be.

delphiandomine
29 Mar 2018  #7

They didn't do this.

What's your level of expertise in investigating aviation accidents?

Slavictor
30 Mar 2018  #8

If you believe that Russia shot down that airliner then you go right ahead and believe it.

Crow
30 Mar 2018  #9

Did you people ever heard for Bermuda triangle? See, sh** with planes happens from time to time. Bermuda triangle becoming elastic sometimes and change its location.

Lyzko
1 Apr 2018  #10

Are you then one of those Von Daeniken groupies, or an Atlantis theorist?

jon357
1 Apr 2018  #11

Did you people ever heard for Bermuda triangle?

I've been to the so-called 'Bermuda Triangle', very peaceful, very blue plenty (lots even) of water and quite sunny, when I worked on board a ship. Nothing to see there, and the number of planes that went down in that region over the decades is statistically normal for an area of water that size.

No mystery about it, just as there is no mystery about the passenger jet shot down by Russian 'rebels' using weapons supplied by their government.

peterweg
1 Apr 2018  #12

Are you then one of those Von Daeniken groupies, or an Atlantis theorist?

Nope, he's Russian.

SigSauer
1 Apr 2018  #13

@Slavictor

Wrong, as wedge and diamond shaped shrapnel was recovered from the bodies and cockpit of the forward of the aircraft. Additionally, chemical analysis shows the exact type of explosive residue, from the exact warhead as I mentioned previously. Additionally, the aircraft was 12,000 feet above the service ceiling for an SU-25. It is just an outlandish Russian theory meant to confuse the narrative and official investigation. It's a joke to anyone in the Western world.

peterweg
2 Apr 2018  #14

Strelkov posted to twitter "We told them not to fly in our airspace and now we've shot them down" (paraphrased).

The was even an article in pravda.ru (site taken down shortly after) boasting about the arrival of the BUK a few days before and claims of a successful shootdown by the Russia proxies.

Slavictor
3 Apr 2018  #15

I'm going to weigh back in on this thread when I have the time. However it occured, the plane hit the ground and the people on board have departed us. This situation, the timing and location, fits the narrative of a frame-up of Russia. Whoever did it, the families of the bereaved deserve answers and justice. Those who did this, and ordered it, deserve a long drop and a short stop.

johnny reb
4 Jun 2018  #16

Russia Is Legally Responsible For Downing of Flight MH17, Netherlands And Australia Say
The Netherlands and Australia are formally blaming Russia's government for the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 in 2014, one day after international investigators said the missile that struck the jet originated from the Russian military.

npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/24/613979423/investigators-say-missile-that-downed-mh17-came-from-russian-military

gregy741
5 Jun 2018  #17

Netherlands And Australia Say

and Malaysia says its all big BS. politically motivated lies.and they are not interested in participating in this farce.

originated from the Russian military.

yes,of course...and murdered by Putin- journalist Babchenko witnessed all this by himself .... in the mean time ,Putin blew up several block apartments full of people.

yes ,we know all of this already.all this divine truth,presented by long noses.

Hopefully ALL the people behind this will be brought to justice.

wow..american is talking about justice...thats rich.
Vietnamese asking for justice so do half of million murdered Iraqis.
if you had any morals or decency ,you should be the last person at pointing countries misconducts.
tell us why 0.5 million Iraqis were murdered?i think we would be very interested to learn..
and if you didnt put your dirty fingers in Ukraine,none of this Malysian plane catastrophe would have happened.

johnny reb
5 Jun 2018  #18

I was simply sharing the above article.
I also thought that you are a Brit and not a Russian which makes YOUR country as guilty as mine since you participated those conflicts too.

Lighten up Gregory.

dolnoslask
5 Jun 2018  #19

YOUR country as guilty as mine since

Hmm Tony Blair and the labour party have allot to answer for.

gregy741
5 Jun 2018  #20

I also thought that you are a Brit and not a Russian which make

am Polish .
what annoy me with this case is that,accidents in war torn area are not only common but almost impossible to avoid.
while US been killing between 100 - 500 civilians a month for a decades,and nobody gives a s.hit about that.
countless schools and hospitals leveled in Rakka and Mosul by USS illegal actions, and no investigations or condemnations.but here is this case ,they are so determined to serve "justice"

as i said,accidents like this are common in conflicts. responsible for this are those who started this war.that is ukra nazis and their western backers.

johnny reb
6 Jun 2018  #21

wow..american is talking about justice...thats rich.Vietnamese asking for justice so do half of million murdered Iraqis.

You are being a little hypocritical aren't you ?

am Polish .

And Poland had soldiers in both Vietnam and Iraq so before you start talking smack about America clean your own back yard up first.

johnny reb
17 Sep 2018  #22

Today Russia came out saying they have proof that it was not Russia who shot down flight MH-17.
Russia is releasing fresh information to back its claim that the missile that downed a Malaysia Airlines flight over war-torn Ukraine in 2014 was fired by Kiev's forces.

Russia said it was releasing the BUK missile's serial number for the first time and said that it was produced and sent to Ukraine in the Soviet era and had not been returned to Russian territory.

It does amaze me how journalism twists and turns political propaganda by both sides.
Who are you to believe anymore.

Miloslaw
17 Sep 2018  #23

Not the Russians that's for sure........ ;-)

Rich Mazur
17 Sep 2018  #24

And Poland had soldiers in both Vietnam and Iraq so before you start talking smack about America clean your own back yard up first.

Good point.
Followed by a good question. Why did Poland play an American lapdog and send their soldiers to kill or help kill the people who never did any harm to Poland?

Of course, Katyn was a different matter.

johnny reb
17 Sep 2018  #25

Not the Russians that's for sure........ ;-)

Russia said it was releasing the BUK missile's serial number for the first time
That does lead to the next question of, "why did Russia wait until years later to produce this information" ?
Which leads to who else had access to those 'possibly' serial numbers.

delphiandomine
17 Sep 2018  #26

Who are you to believe anymore.

Bellingcat already demolished Russia's claims.

bellingcat.com/tag/mh17

In particular, bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2017/07/17/mh17-open-source-investigation-three-years-later

johnny reb
17 Sep 2018  #27

Your source is over a year old.
My source is from today with the latest update.
Russia said it was releasing the BUK missile's serial number for the first time today.

Miloslaw
17 Sep 2018  #28

That does lead to the next question of, "why did Russia wait until years later to produce this information" ?

Spot on!
And I really don't see what the serial number of the Russian missile can possibly prove......

delphiandomine
17 Sep 2018  #29

Russia said it was releasing the BUK missile's serial number for the first time today.

It's meaningless. As I posted, Bellingcat already comprehensively proved everything there is to know about the missile. They know where it came from, they know how it got there (and how it left), everything.

Anyone can invent a random serial number, but not everyone can put together an entire timeline showing the movements of the BUK system and the specific missile in question. It's all here - bellingcat.com/?s=BUK

Still, you'll never understand the Russian mentality. This isn't intended for Western audiences, this is solely designed for domestic purposes.

johnny reb
17 Sep 2018  #30

And I really don't see what the serial number of the Russian missile can possibly prove......

What the Russians are saying is that it was not in their possession at the time of the shoot down.
They gave it to the pro Russian rebels and they had not returned it yet. lol


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