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Norwegian kids to decide their own gender - GW



Polonius3
25 Jun 2015  #1

GW reports the Norwegian government is working on a law that would allow 16-year-olds to decide what gender they are. Doctors would no longer be necessary to rule in such cases, only the teenager's whim would be taken into account. If he or she changed their mind at some point, they could legally go back to their proper sex.
There seems to be no end to the "progressive" innovations bening thought up by old libertines in office. At least Grodzka will be happy to hear it, and that's all that counts!

noreenb
25 Jun 2015  #2

I learnt that we become adult people in psychological sphere at the age of 25-28. Some a bit earlier, some a bit later. The law could be devastating for young people's minds and cause very dangerous consequences for them. Starting from uncertainty, who you really are.

Polonius3
25 Jun 2015  #3

could be devastating

Precisely. Especially since GW pointed out that medical staff would not have a voice and the child would make its own decision unassisted.

jon357
25 Jun 2015  #4

The law could be devastating for young people's minds and cause very dangerous consequences for them

Even more devastating at the moment, when people trapped in the wrong body (and yes, it is medical not psychological) often have wretchedly miserable lives.

The proposal in Norway, by the way, relates to gender identity and not irreversible medical treatment.

noreenb
25 Jun 2015  #5

In my opinion t is rather psychological.
How would you prove me it's medical,jon 357?
Having the gender you want at the age of 16? So, maybe I can have everything I want at the age of 30+?
No , thank you, I have a respect for nature. It knows the best.

noreenb
26 Jun 2015  #6

Just wanted to add, that at the age of 16 you can feel bad with yourself, with your gender, but it can change when you become an adult person.
You can feel bad with this what you want, but this, what you want, can be bad for you, your future you.
Ok, I know I know, want vs feel or know.
Are these kids completely sure, how they feel or what they want?

Polonius3
26 Jun 2015  #7

trapped in the wrong body

What about being trapped in the wrong orientation? A kid is born hetero but feels he is a homo, and yet is reluctant to practice that orientation for whatever reason and wants to feel good about being hetero. Or converesely, a kid is born homo but feels uncomfortable about it. Would psychological counselling be available to such people?

jon357
26 Jun 2015  #8

A kid is born hetero

Born neither.

And off topic too.

Harry
26 Jun 2015  #9

but feels he is a homo, and yet is reluctant to practice that orientation for whatever reason

Sounds like an ideal candidate for a professional that requires chastity. Perhaps anybody knows of such a profession?

And off topic too.

Yes, but according to Vincent any posts in the off-topic forum (or in the bin) can be replied to, in a civil manner and without using any abuse. I'd quote his exact words but he told me that in a PM.

Polonius3
26 Jun 2015  #10

Born neither.

So if orientation does not come with birth, then when does it appear, according to you?

jon357
26 Jun 2015  #11

if orientation does not come with birth,

A fairly daft question and one designed to be devious - a word you like:
The Jews...they are devious bastards

However, to spell it out simply for you, sexual orientation is genetic. At birth, however, none of us (of course if in your own case it was different, do feel free to enlighten us) none of us feel sexual attraction to anyone.

This however is going very off topic - the thread title is about gender, not sexuality. There are dozens of threads (mostly started by you) which are more appropriate for you to expound on your favourite (and yes, you do post on this more than on any other matter) subject.

Polonius3
26 Jun 2015  #12

that requires chastity

He didn't have to lack a sex drive altogether. He may have felt attracted to other boys but was close to his family and felt they would be devastated if they found out. He also might have found the actual practice as seen on Internet porn to be disgusting and revolting. Maybe he had read the Bible which said homosexuals wold nto acheive salvation, and yet he felt the need for human closeness. There could have been101 other reasons too.
For you see, Harry, not everything in life is just black or white, hetero or homo. Life is full of subtleties and nuances which insensitive types, who ride rough-shod over everything, are incapable of grasping.

Polonius3
26 Jun 2015  #13

ery off topic

Gender, sexuality, orientation are surely kindred and interrelated areas.

Harry
26 Jun 2015  #14

He may have felt attracted to other boys but was close to his family and felt they would be devastated if they found out.

Sounds almost overqualified for a certain profession.

Out of interest, are you describing somebody you know well?

jon357
26 Jun 2015  #15

Gender, sexuality, orientation are surely kindred and interrelated areas.

Actually with significant differences. There are myriad threads already about the gift of human sexuality, almost all started by your good self...

Polonius3
26 Jun 2015  #16

the gift of human

You forgot God-given gift of human sexuality. Unless the non-believers think it was some Mother Nature or Mother Goose who gave it!?

jon357
26 Jun 2015  #17

Mother Nature

Bingo!

Polonius3
26 Jun 2015  #18

Judging by the way some of those bozos abuse it, Mother Goose sounds more plausible.

Please stay on topic.

Harry
26 Jun 2015  #19

God-given gift of human sexuality. Unless the non-believers think it was some Mother Nature or Mother Goose who gave it!?

Are you talking about the gift that some people deny? The gift that some people reject, because, for example he may have felt attracted to other boys but was close to his family and felt they would be devastated if they found out.

Shouldn't you be happy that Norway gives 16-year-olds the chance to tell people to tell them what God has given them?

Polonius3
26 Jun 2015  #20

gift that some people deny

I was referring to the gift of normal, healthy, procreative sexuality not the curse of sexual abnormality. It's all in how one defines terms. I base my definition on Scripture which refers to altersexualtiy as "an abomination", no more, no less. Others may prefer the defintion of LGBTQ spin-doctors, who've got a vested interest in expanding their constituency, and there's no law against prefering their version of things.

Harry
26 Jun 2015  #21

I base my definition on Scripture which refers to altersexualtiy as "an abomination", no more, no less.

Yes, but it also uses that exact same word to describe nylon and crayfish. Would you like to claim that you avoid the Polish delicacy of crayfish based on what the bible says?

I was referring to the gift of normal, healthy, procreative sexuality

So, not the one that involves an entirely unknown individual not lacking a sex drive altogether but feeling attracted to other boys but being close to his family and feeling they would be devastated if they found out? You know, the one you posted about.

Polonius3
26 Jun 2015  #22

nylon?

You msut read a diffeent Bible. Mine makes no mention of rayon, nylon, acrylic or cellphones.

First answer the question, what some who feels uncomfortable about his nomal or abnormal sexuality should do: psycholgical counselling, medical treatment or what?

Harry
26 Jun 2015  #23

You msut read a diffeent Bible. Mine makes no mention of rayon, nylon, acrylic

Perhaps you have forgotten about Leviticus 19:19, which is odd, given that you remember what Leviticus 18:22 says about homosexuality being an abomination. Anyway, Leviticus 19:19 clearly says "nor shall you wear a garment of cloth made of two kinds of material" and nylon is certainly covered by that.

First answer the question, what some who feels uncomfortable about his nomal or abnormal sexuality should do: psycholgical counselling, medical treatment or what?

I'm astounded that you haven't considered prayer!

Polonius3
26 Jun 2015  #24

I'm astounded that you haven't considered prayer!

I'm astounded that you wrote that in Norway 16-year-olds have the the chance to say "what God has given them?" Sztange words in the mouth of an invetrerate, cynical God-basher and consummate Christophobe. But maybe not. Already Jesus spoke of the devil quoting from Sacred Scrpture.

Harry
26 Jun 2015  #25

I'm astounded that you wrote that in Norway 16-year-olds have the the chance to say "what God has given them?"

You are the one who says that human sexuality is a "God-given gift", I'm merely using your words to consider your thought process.

Sztange words in the mouth of an invetrerate, cynical God-basher and consummate Christophobe. But maybe not. Already Jesus spoke of the devil quoting from Sacred Scrpture.

Insulting me won't actually make life any easier for somebody who felt attracted to other boys but was close to his family and felt they would be devastated if they found out, although it might make you feel better.

noreenb
26 Jun 2015  #26

Gosh, people will always arrive at some decisions which don't take into consideration God, Polonius3
I think we just have to accept it.
The problem is, sometimes it goes too far.

Polonius3
26 Jun 2015  #27

Leviticus 18:22 says about homosexuality

Yes, but as you know Leviticus was the Old Testament. Jesus abrogated some Old Testament beliefs such as Israeli racism that regarded Goyim (Gentiles) as unclean and subhuman, Kosher dietary laws (ban on crayfish, pork, etc.) and preached forgiveness rather than "an eye for an eye". But one thing Christianity did not change was the condemnation of sinful homosexuality.
In Romans, 27, St Paul wrote: "Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones, and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.

Harry
26 Jun 2015  #28

Jesus abrogated some Old Testament beliefs

What did Jesus have to say about homosexuality? If it's as important as you make it out to be, he must have had a lot to say about it.

Polonius3
26 Jun 2015  #29

What did Jesus have to say about homosexuality?

Biblical scholarship appears to be amongst your endless fields of expertise, so you tell me. I hope you can come up with some of Jesus' words praising debauchery and sodomy.

Harry
26 Jun 2015  #30

Biblical scholarship appears to be amongst your endless fields of expertise, so you tell me.

One doesn't need to be an expert to know he never mentioned it, did he?
But I'm sure he'd have love in his heart for the person you know who felt attracted to other boys but was close to his family and felt they would be devastated if they found out; does that make you feel better?


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