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Paris 2024 Olympics



AntV
29 Jul 2024  #121

Hmmm...so as not to confuse and be more specific how about Gladius Christi?

Torq
29 Jul 2024  #122

Muhammad

You forgot to add 'sallallahu alayhi wa sallam' - prepare to be beheaded.

Allah

You forgot to add 'subhanahu wa ta'ala' or 'azza wa jal' - do you have second head? :)

All jokes aside, if we had our version of Hesbollah or Al Qaeda, maybe all those ret... no, scratch that... people of questionable intelligence wouldn't be so eager to offend our faith.

Gladius Christi

Perfect!

AntV
29 Jul 2024  #123

Bismillah walhamdulillah wassalatu wassalamu 'ala Rasulillah.

'sallallahu alayhi wa sallam'

BTW, would you two stop showing off? All this ostentatious broad erudition is just plain gross.

Torq
29 Jul 2024  #124

*hangs his head in shame*

AntV
29 Jul 2024  #125

😁. Hehe

Bobko
29 Jul 2024  #126

if we had our version of Hesbollah or Al Qaeda

You Catholics had your own Hezbollah and ISIS. They were called Hospitallers, Templars, Livonians, etc.

There's this other order, which is still around, that call themselves the Soldiers of Christ. They've traded the swords in for books. Heard of them?

Torq
29 Jul 2024  #127

Heard of them?

Nope.

*goes googling*

AntV
29 Jul 2024  #128

Whoa! Take that historical mischaracterizing analogy back, Bobi, or you are no longer my favorite Orc. 😀

Bobko
29 Jul 2024  #129

Take that historical mischaracterizing analogy back, Bobi

Ok, let's see:

1) Invaders that attempt to carve out new states - check
2) Putting infidels to the sword - check
3) Led by a theocratic government - check
4) Recruits primarily among religious fanatics - check
5) Convinced of their possession of a divine mandate - check
6) Appears as a reaction to a perceived state of weakness and degeneracy - check

What's the problem?

Torq
29 Jul 2024  #130

*finished googling*

Soldiers Of Christ

We are Soldiers of Christ, a faith-based organization in Midrand, South Africa (...) We teach that Blacks, Hispanics, and Native American Indians are the 12 Tribes of Israel according to the Holy Bible.

soldiersofchrist.org.za/

Right...

Bobko
29 Jul 2024  #131

Right...

Oh no, not these guys lol.

Hahahaha!

I meant the goddamn Jesuits.

The Society of Jesus often refers to itself informally as the Soldiers of Christ.

They say this, in part because St. Ignatius was a soldier before he became a priest.

In general - a Christian soldier is a strange thing, and yes I know about St. Cornelius the Centurion and St. Maurice who led the Theban legion.

Torq
29 Jul 2024  #132

Jesuits

Oh... the Jesuits.

I'm afraid they are no longer guardians of strict orthodoxy. :( There is this sad joke that the Dominicans are supposed to be Domini canes, but it is the Jesuits who went to the dogs.

a Christian soldier is a strange thing

Not necessarily. There is the idea of just war in Catholic teaching and we had many great Christian soldiers and military leaders throughout history.

Bobko
29 Jul 2024  #133

I'm afraid they are no longer guardians of strict orthodoxy.

Were they ever?

Bringing Catholicism to China, the Philippines, South America, etc - they really took huge liberties with the doctrine and the tradition to make it more palatable to the aboriginals.

Jesuits have always been about temporal power, and not about purity.

There is the idea of just war in Catholic teaching

Yes I've read extensively on the topic. Not convinced.

Torq
29 Jul 2024  #134

Were they ever?

Definitely, during the counter-reformation they were a great force for the good. As for the missions, perhaps there were marginal doubts but I wouldn't call them 'huge liberties'. The decline of Jesuits, and the Catholic Church in general, started after the lamentable Second Vatican Council.

johnny reb
29 Jul 2024  #135

Olympians are calling the food in Paris a 'disaster'.........and one team is flying in its own chef

Bobko
29 Jul 2024  #136

started after the lamentable Second Vatican Council.

You "trad Cats" and your eternal complaints about Vatican 2...

You are like our Russian "Old Believers" and "Old Calendarists".

Your Church has left you behind, and you are still sitting at the station waiting for the next train.

It ain't coming!

Bratwurst Boy
29 Jul 2024  #137

....somehow I get the feeling these games will become historical....and not in a good way!

Of France, what have you done! On "X" frenchies are already apologizing as in "That is not France".....

Torq
29 Jul 2024  #138

Your Church has left you behind

Hmm... I wouldn't say so. Church is an ancient and complicated thing. It doesn't succumb to easy, superficial analysis by outsiders.

You are like our Russian "Old Believers" and "Old Calendarists".

Not a very precise analogy. We are still a part of the Church, in union with the Pope and the bishops, and members of our local parishes.

sitting at the station waiting for the next train

:)

Waiting for better times maybe. And better times will come - in the end the victory is ours. No worries, Bobi, the Catholic Church (and the traditional Catholics) will still be around as long as the world exists.

Bobko
29 Jul 2024  #139

It doesn't succumb to easy, superficial analysis by outsiders.

Outsiders being me - the Orthodox-raised atheist?

in union with the Pope and the bishops

You will have that for as long as the Church exists. Being in communion with a compromised entity, is not proof of that entity's vitality. Logic - Kania.

in the end the victory is ours.

Amen.

AntV
29 Jul 2024  #140

The problem is the analogy is too simplistic and anachronistic.

Most of those orders were started as charitable orgs (for lack of better term) and acquired a militaristic aspect as a response to Christians coming under the sword of followers of Mohammed.

Sure, these orders did at times become corrupted, but it had almost nothing to do with the Catholic faith-it had to do with personal avarice and power.

As far as being led by theocratic govs, that is normally not true. The govs that sponsored these military orders typically were secular. Yes, these govs may have been affiliated with the Church but its governance was normally strictly secular-it may have protected and allowed the Church to exist and the ruling class were espoused believers, but that is different than theocracy. Civil law may have been informed by the moral teachings if the faith, but it was not canon law codified as civil law.

We can't transpose our contemporary socio-political milieu onto the past.

The Jesuits as Soldiers of Christ was not a temporal soldier but meant as a spiritual soldier. Some argue Ignatius organized the Order like a military structure because he was a former Basque soldier, others refute that.

johnny reb
29 Jul 2024  #141

Please stay on topic and quit trashing threads

Quoting:
There's a culinary catastrophe brewing at the Paris Olympics.
Teams, including Great Britain and Germany, have complained that the food at the Olympics hasn't been up to par, despite France's reputation as a foodie mecca.
The UK team has had to resort to flying in another private chef to Paris due to a lack of protein and raw meat being served at the Olympic Village, Andy Anson, the CEO of the British Olympic Association, told The Times.
The Paris Olympics are running low on chicken and egg options, and athletes were choosing to eat packed meals prepared at the UK performance lodge, he said.
Several members of Germany's men's hockey team also slammed the Paris 2024 cuisine, with one calling it "a disaster," dpa reports.


Torq
29 Jul 2024  #142

Outsiders being me

Yes. The Church is as much an ancient earthly organisation as it is a deep spiritual reality. If you understood that you wouldn't call it...

a compromised entity

Anyways, I think we have annoyed the mods for too long with this scandalously off-topic discussion. Let's get back to Paris 2024 Olympics...

... the worst Olympics ever. :)

Bobko
29 Jul 2024  #143

you understood that you wouldn't call it...

I am thirsty for knowledge)

Anyways, I think we have annoyed the mods for too long with this scandalously off-topic discussion

Ok fine.

There should be a thread here where people can duke out these theological/eschatological questions to some level of satisfaction.

Torq
29 Jul 2024  #144

I am thirsty for knowledge

Good. :) Start with Anti's response above.

Bobko
29 Jul 2024  #145

First mistake AntV makes, is imagining I am placing the "theocratic" label on France, England, the Holy Roman Empire, etc.

The "theocratic" applies to the governance of those actual orders. Just as modern Muslim orders are led by sheikhs and imams, then it was the same. The orders were theocratic states, led by religious leaders.

His points regarding it being a "reaction" - of course! What do you think the Islamic State, Al Qaeda, and Hezbollah claim? Everybody is "reacting".

Novichok
29 Jul 2024  #146

... the worst Olympics ever. :)

They should stick to wine and cheese ...

I am thirsty for knowledge)

I am not. I know enough.
In fact, I know too much. Like how sausage is made in DC.
I wish they kept it a secret.

AntV
29 Jul 2024  #147

Bobko, we may be having a problem of language. I'm not aware of a religious orders Rule ever being called a theocracy. I've inly heard theocracy being used in relation to a realm or nation.

A religious rule is obviously going to be theocentric and an expression of the faith it confesses.

At some point the orders we're talking about became less religious-oriented and more secular.

I concede that both are reactions. We might agree more than we disagree on this.

Bobko
29 Jul 2024  #148

Bobko, we may be having a problem of language.

It's true, you are from God's Country, and I'm from Manhattan.

AntV
29 Jul 2024  #149

I'm from Manhattan.

This pains me that such a fine young man must suffer the daily indignities of such a fate.

Go west, and don't look back, Bobi. You won't regret it (just stay the hell away from Chicago, Atlanta, and Cleveland and don't be seduced by the beauty of the western coastal states, the three coastal sisters are insatiable wh0res who corrupt and infect with disease).

Bobko
29 Jul 2024  #150

This pains me that such a fine young man must suffer the daily indignities of such a fate.

We suffer, humbly, silently. Carrying out the ministry in the heart of Babylon - what could be better?

Alhamdulillah!


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