Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades

Velund, how does the average guy (or you) feel about what Putin is doing at the border with Ukraine?
Also, how do they see the US these days on the love-hate scale?

@Novichok
I don't know what you mean about "doing at the border", as there is regiments at their permanent locations about 400 km from border included in "concentrated by Putin" figures. If we will require from any of baltic countries to move their troops to the same distance from RU/BY border, they will probably find yourself deeply in the Baltic sea.

And about love-hate scale, it seems not so useful, as this scale pointer is permanently set on off-scale "desperate" mark. On the envy-compassion scale, the pointer goes further and further away from envy. People here are really beginning to believe that the American elite has played to deep and unsolvable systemic problems. The only desire is that this elite does not decide to take the whole world with them, going into oblivion.

And yes. Russia now in position that allow to wait. Simply wait and look what happens. Even China cannot afford this luxury now.

I meant the Russian troops we see on TV every day. Is it true that 100k troops are at the border with Ukraine?
Would the average Russian support Putin if he decided to enter Ukraine and have a Crimea-style referendum among the Russian-speaking population there? Is this even likely in your opinion?

I do not inspected RU/UA border last months, so cannot say anything. ;) But some western media "calcualations" I have seen a month or so ago includes units located as far as 350+ km from border.


I think most will support almost any Putin decision, as situation goes worse, and many Russians have relatives in Ukraine. But here is some joke that becoming popular last time...

- Will Putin attack Ukraine?
- I don't think so, he is not a stupid man.
- Why you decided so?
- Imagine that you have a hypersonic hammer that will crush anything, just shards will fly to every possible direction. Imagined this?
- yea...
- Now say, who will use such weapon on a huge pile of fresh manure?

That joke does not go well with the Ukrainians, I guess.

Many/most Russians are driven to a state of intense, illogical rage by Ukraine's mere existence as a separate country. They still follow the Soviet line that Ukraine and Belarus are parts of Russia (simplifying a tad but that's the gist of it).

It's collective narcissistic rage...

Problem is not in existence of Ukraine as separate country. Problem is that historically Russian territories (with predominantly Russian population) was added to current arificial Ukrainian state. And while there was no too much oppression to Russian speaking population, it was more or less but bearable. Now, with de-facto prohibition of Russian language even on territories inhabited almost 100% by Russians due to new laws there is almost nothing to discuss anymore.

Latest visits of Ukraine officials to Croatia (to learn details of Croatian "methods" of ethnical cleanising) put final nails into future coffin of ukrainian state as it is now.

Somehow it never bothers Russia when historically non-Russian states with predominantly non-Russian populations are added to the artificial Russian state....

With regard to ethnicity and language the situation is a lot more complex (leaving aside the issue of how to decide a person's ethnicity, self-identification? Soviet nationality assignments?)

And which territories... in the Donbas, Russian predominated in the cities but the countryside overwhelmingly spoke Ukrainian until very late USSR (this from someone with relatives still there who had no problem with being in Ukraine).

The only people I've personally known from Crimea both claimed Ukrainian as a native language when there was political pressure to do so (pressure not to do so for one of them). Another person who knew people there said those who had adapted more or less to capitalism had no problem with being in Ukraine it was the welfare dependent classes who dreamed of bigger government handouts who wanted a Russian government...

I understand that Odessa is traditionally almost entirely Russian speaking but more Ukrainian identifying....


Some citations might be in order... it's pretty normal in this part of the world for a country to want to develop their own language.

I kind of agree with the American (forget his name) who supports Ukrainization but suggests that Ukraine also standardize it's own form of Russian, making their own dictionaries, formal standards etc. drawing a parallel with Spain and Mexico. At one time the standards prevailing in Mexico came from Madrid while now, Mexicans don't care what Spanish think of the way they speak.

Why Bandera worshippers from Galicia and Volyn should be allowed to dictate which language should be used by people in Donbass and Odessa? Why hungarian speaking minority is forced to abandon their native language even in Tisza Valley, where Hungarians form the majority.?

For me, normal examples of language politics is Finland and Switzerland, not Ukraine and Poland.

@Velund

Why should Stalin worshippers from Moscow have been allowed to dictate which language should be used by people in Estonia or Georgia or Kazakhstan?

I'm sure the language laws aren't perfect but the state promotion of one language over another to unify the country is completely legitimate. Tough luck for those who chose to not learn the national language in the 30 plus years of independence but the more adaptable shouldn't have any problems.

And what's wrong with Polish language policy? (Lithuanians have some complaints, but something tells me you don't care much about them).

Can you provide any proofs that someone tried to prohibit use of Estonian, Georgian or Kazakh languages by their native carriers?

Can you prove that the use of Russian is being prohibited in the private sphere in Ukraine? Are people being prohibited from using Russian at home or with friends on the street?

This is just not true.

Russian is not banned in Ukraine.

For Russians anything less than compulsory usage is the same as being banned... like I said. Rage.

@mafketis

Point taken Maf.

I think that Ukrainian is the only language allowed in some services.

But there is no ban on the use of Russian generally.

Is right to choose school education language for kids "private sphere", or not? More than 200 schools that used Russian language was forced to switch to ukrainian, even in 100% Russian speaking towns (Ukrainian language was there before as separate discipline, now everything else switched to ukrainian).

Press on any non-Ukrainian language now de facto economically prohibited, as at least 50% of print run of each issue must be ukrainian language. To print 50000 russian language newspapers you have to translate everything to ukrainian and then print same 50000 units of ukrainian version... Just to discard.

On January 16, 2021, new provisions of the law "On Ensuring the Functioning of the Ukrainian Language as the State Language" came into force in Ukraine. They oblige the inhabitants of Ukraine to use only the Ukrainian language in the service sector. Sanctions are provided for violation of the norms of the law: for the first - a warning, for the second and subsequent within a year - a fine from 5100 to 6800 hryvnias ($182-242).

Of course not. A part of the supplies expires in 2,3 years or even longer. While the invasion threat is now.


Of course, troops and tanks are massed at the Ukrainian border and are waiting for orders. And so shall they wait and see how NATO is moving extra troops to Poland and the Baltics. Very sensible of Russians - attract even more NATO into the area. :):):)

Is Putin called the genius of strategy in Russian state media???? hahaha

These plans were first announced in the early 1990s.... plenty of time to learn to adapt... And the purpose of schools is to prepare children for public life in the country they're living in, not an aggressive neighbor intent on devouring them....

I'm not a favor of fines for language use but stories from Russia sound very disingenuous... seriously, forget Ukraine, try to save Russian from Chinese in Siberia while you still can....

asianews.it/news-en/Beijing-%27eating-up%27-Siberia-53500.html

@pawian

If you change word "threat" to "paranoia" it will look more realistic.


I see no reason to adapt to everything, and Lugansk/Donetsk republics is a form if saying "no (without thanks)" to attempt to enforce unacceptable rules.

bla bla bla etc stop feeding us slogans from Russian Kremlin controlled media, this forum hosts a few reasonable and intelligent posters.... hahahaha You can spare us this crap, OK?

After Ukraine put goal to NATO membership into Constitution, there is no chances for them to be forgotten.

@Velund

So what? As a nation do they not have a right to declare their goals as a nation? Why wouldn't all of Europe want to join NATO?

When Russia learns that no intelligent human being thinks the Russian or Soviet models of society are successful then Russia will know what the rest of the world in general is thinking.

Why would any former Soviet nation want to return to what they had? Nations should progress as time moves on, not move backward. Having spent a lot of time in Ukraine, and doing business with Russians for years, I have yet to meet a Russian that actually cares if Ukraine is part of Russia or not. Yet, I have not met one Ukrainian who wants to return to Russia. Russia should learn that they are not a beacon of hope for people, Russia is really seen as more of a rusty boat anchor.

What could have possibly given them that idea... it's not like Russia has committed military aggress..... oh wait.

Russia doesn't want Ukraine to join NATO because Russians hate the very idea of Ukraine as an independent country making its own decisions.

mafe, why do you think that Russians needs to obey to Vatican`s projects of creating new nations from Russians? to Roman meddling on behalf of Germanics?

Do you think Russians are imbeciles? They who come to be from within Kievan Rus? You really thinks Russians don`t know who they are?

Or that Serbs needs to accept Vatican`s creation of Croats from Serbs, again on behalf of Germanics?

Or that Poles needs to accept Vatican`s support to formation of German state on Slavic regions that tend to merging with Poland?

mafe, mafe

You mafe thinks Slavs are morons that won`t give middle finger to the papacy and to NATO that is right now tool of it?

Russians hate thee idea of foreign forces stationed in nearest vicinity of their border, while "decision makers" is at safe distance from this part of the world.

Similar thing in 1962 make US "elite" quite nervous. So, you can think that the same thing with Ukraine has to be avoided at any cost, preferably at cost of "project Ukraine" statehood itself, if current "executives" fail to understand their role in game.

especially one they'd like to cross with tanks....

if Russia had kept its paws off of Crimea none of this would be an issue..... just remember that.

How I read now Russians maneuvering Iskandar ballistic missiles all along Belarus and Russia western borders. Those arern`t not long range missiles. I presume, it means all enemy troops concentrated relative close to borders would be obliterated at the start of hostilities. That is in accord with what Putin speak of doctrine to minimize Russian casualties.

@Velund
I don't think you really understand the game. The rest of the world is simply waiting for Russia to collapse upon itself like it has before. It is predictable and inevitable that it will happen again. No one is looking to invade Russia because no one wants it. Russia is paranoid as a culture. The self worth placed upon itself as a country has never been earned in the eyes of the rest of the world.

They aren`t stupid. Non is that stupid. If provoked to that game, Russia would respond in a way to profit on those troop maneuvering, not to exhaust itself. Meaning, Russia would expand.

You are with your nonsense.


Should give up Kalinigrad then. It the middle of NATO countries, too close to Warsaw. Poland hate it too.


It cost them a lot/. They can't keep it up for much longer. Maybe Germany will save them or China.