Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades

Nobody supports a war with Ukraine. Even Putin and his dog. It's about the NATO cancer spreading while looking for a mission. OK, I got it, these morons are looking for the Warsaw Pact...somewhere...where is it hiding...

it looks like Russia hands them what they look for on a golden plate - how wise of Russia, yeah

Circular logic is not logical.

Just because Ukrainians were backed by Austrians before ww1, doesn't mean they created it. If so... they failed miserably since any free and independent Ukraine didn't appear until past 1989.

It's no use to shift blame on to other states for Russias own shortcomings and motivating her subjects to become hostile or treat them like enemies

I think correct question is another one. What the (western) world can offer, really life critical, that Russia will be unable to replace by domestic made or third party sourced functional equivalent in 2 years or so? Especially if there will be moratorium to legal protection of patents for products and technologies that is not commercially offered to Russia due to sanctions or strict forms of export control (a sort of mandatory licensing like now done with songs for use in broadcasting - right owners get centralized payments from special fund proportional to frequency of use).

Russia is netto exporter of food now, so will not starve for sure. Customers that need luxury cars probably out of luck, but nobody cares here about its problems.


TELEX still works and can be used with direct bank to bank links. Plus couple of working days to process, but it still working. Dollars, Euro or Cauri, doesn't matter... And there is national payment system with some foreign correspondent banks already connected.

So, SWIFT is not a wunderwaffe at all. ;)


Now tell me how Lenin was able to hand Donbas and Novorossia to Ukrainian Republic, if there was no Ukraine before 1989? ;)

Learn it! In 1922, young Ukraine joined the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics without Kharkov, without Kherson, without Odessa and Donetsk, without Lugansk, and, of course, without Crimea. Ukraine did not even have Lvov at that time.

That is correct, so it was not independant until 1991.

There was short period of existence of formally independent Ukraine before joining USSR.

That does not count for much though does it.

Just as Hawaii or Illinois still are. Or the Southern states that wanted to be independent. How did THAT work out for them? It seems the USSR was more democratic in this respect.


...a gift that was taken back and out of the jaws of that tumorous snake...Good move.

You should decide then - does short existence of pre-war independent Latvia and Lituania count or no? ;) If Ukraine is not, why Latvia is?

That was a longer period, more comparable to Polands brief independence before 1939.

And what is the edge in days/months?

PS: Looked in Bismarck citations to find one about Russia, but found one about Poland instead. ;)

"Hit the Poles so hard that they despair of their life; I have full sympathy with their condition, but if we want to survive, we can only exterminate them; the wolf, too, cannot help having been created by God as he is, but people shoot him for it if they can." - Otto von Bismarck

Source: quotepark.com/quotes/1869194-otto-von-bismarck-hit-the-poles-so-hard-that-they-despair-of-their-l/

@Velund
Clearly you do not understand how international money flows. Telex is incapable of billions of dollars in transfers, I dont think its even capable of millions. It is an antiquated system that no one really uses any more. But then again in Russia maybe its modern technology.

What does the West offer Russia? That is better asked if said, "what could the West offer Russia, if it wanted to do business with Russia?" Because its clear the west is waiting for Putin to die and people to be tired of those great traditions of being hungry and broke. The west could offer technology, investment, job creation, elevated standards of living, or just the basic things that every western country has.

Russia has nothing to offer under the current leadership. And the west will wait it out until the people, who wont have fear when Putin is gone, decide enough is enough.

To be more objective Ukraine with capital in Kiev proclaimed sovereignty in 1918 but was simply conquered by Bolshevik troops later.
"The Ukrainian People's Republic (UPR), or Ukrainian National Republic (UNR),[c] was a country in Eastern Europe that existed between 1917 and 1920. It was declared following the February Revolution in Russia by the First Universal. Following the October Revolution, it proclaimed its independence from the Russian Republic on 22 January 1918 by the Fourth Universal. Between April and December 1918, the socialist authority of the Ukrainian People's Republic was suspended, having been overthrown by the pro-German Ukrainian State of Pavlo Skoropadskyi, who was elected as a Hetman by a congress of peasants.[2][3][need quotation to verify] From late 1919, the UNR operated as an ally of the Second Polish Republic. On 10 November 1920, the state lost the remainder of its territory to the Bolsheviks troops FROM RUSSIA.

The Ukrainian People's Republic was recognized de jure in February 1918 by the Central Powers of World War I (Austria-Hungary, Germany, the Ottoman Empire and Bulgaria)[19] and by Bolshevik Russia, the Baltic States (Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania), Georgia, Azerbaijan, Romania, Czechoslovakia, and the Holy See. De facto recognition was granted by Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark, and Persia.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_People%27s_Republic#Anti-Bolshevik_and_other_uprisings

Russia or its 0.1%?
West does not even make TVs, phones, computers, toys, or anything normal people want. I don't know about the UK, but a typical Walmart store here has nothing that is made in the USA.

Most of US products is made for export - greenbacks inflation, sanctions, threats and interventions. ;)


Telex is just a method of secure message transfer between banks. Less convenient than SWIFT, but operational. Two dollars or billion euro - doesn't matter really.


Are Apple's made in China?

Yes, they are.


Wokeness, gay rights, "democracy", Facebook, Soros, and how to run deficits and build nations.

It is much the same here as regards manufactured goods.
But even the stuff made here have components from abroad.
Like the USA, most of the stuff on sale is made in China.

You forgot Yugoslavia. Serbia.

We are effectively only Europeans attacked by NATO. First us and then Russia. See, we were first in Europe to give them middle finger. Let us not forget that.

@Novichok
Japan is also considered to be the "west". Japanese products abundant in Europe, American products like Phillips TV's very popular in Europe. While founded in Amsterdam is is on the NYSE. American cars are very big in Europe, not so much for anything Russian made. Again for the third time today, someone tell me what Russia has that the "west" wants?

You all hope for Russia to become a monster and it isn't going to happen. They can not conquer the world because it really is almost the entire rest of the world against them. Russia for all intents and purposes is on an island if they invade.

In the end the actual and upcoming conflicts with Russia and China will be important for the West!

They will end these bad dependencies, on fossil Energies (Russia) and especially crucial on cheap labour (China).

The West will get it's industries and jobs back....the worst excesses of the globalization of the recent decades will end, that's a good thing for the West!

It won't be easy, no withdrawal is....and I can't actually see no other scenario where western country would really feel the need to go through that pain but real conflict!

Just a side note.....right now US LNG provider are already profiting from the european difficulties with Russia.....their profits are rising....

...In recent months Russia's Gazprom has cut its deliveries of natural gas to Europe by half, to 17% of supply. So far Europe is making up for this "quasi-curtailment," as analysts at IHS-Markit call it, by scouring the globe for cargoes of deep-chilled liquefied natural gas. LNG deliveries to Europe have doubled from a year ago to as much as 24 billion cubic feet per day in early February, now making up more than 40% of supply - and with the biggest portion coming from the United States. ....

forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2022/02/08/cargoes-of-american-freedom-gas-help-europe-stay-warm-amid-russian-cutbacks/?sh=322ded1625ea

You forgot to mention one main factor which made you leave the communist block and head for the USA: American wealth versus communist poverty. And we perfectly realise that if you had this choice today, being fully aware of the negative things you have just listed, you would also leave for the USA,

That was a good post, BB.

Just one more thing the West has to get unaddicted from - cheap foreign labor at home since there is no such thing as cheap foreign labor at home. It's so damn expensive it's not funny. Worse yet, the scum never leaves.


I forgot nothing. I just continued the list of American exports Velund started. Go yell at him. Bad Velund.

When I left Ukraine it wasn't communist already. Mexico was never communist, but is the largest immigrant supplier to US. US and other Western countries to a signifficant extent work like a giant vacuum cleaner which engulfs financial flows from poorer countries in different ways. There are disputes on how could we name the system which existed in USSR and former communist Block. Some people claim it was neither communism or real socialism, but rather a goverment monopolistic capitalism. I don't see a reasons to disagree with them.

Those people being communists who like to keep their ideology intact....

It's like Nazis saying the Third Reich wasn't really Nazi! We can do better next time!

Mikhail Khazin named USSR system as statewide corporation with socialistic principles in internal bookkeeping. ;)

One of the most important feature of socialism is that entreprises are publically owned. But could we believe they were publically owned in USSR? I think rather not. State property isn't equal to public propery. Even cooperatives in majority of fields were prohibited in USSR.

That is what they say. Maybe maybe not.

@Vlad1234

in Poland the system is simply called 'planned economy'


Philips is a Dutch company - at least it is where it originated

No!
You really need to understand that Serbia is totally irrelevant.... Nobody cares!