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Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades



Novichok
16 Feb 2022  #931

Gassed his own people, during Moscow theater hostage crisis in 2002.

Evil guy. And he paid dearly for it. From Wikipedia:

Many in the Russian press and in the international media warned that the death of so many hostages in the special forces' rescue operation would severely damage President Putin's popularity. This prediction reportedly turned out to be wrong. Shortly after the siege, the Russian president had record public approval ratings; in December 2002, 83% of Russians reportedly declared themselves satisfied with Putin's rule and his handling of the siege.

Obviously, that 83% is fake. Only the polls in Western democracies are honest.

GefreiterKania
16 Feb 2022  #932

Have the Russians finally attacked? Or maybe they realise that:

- Ukrainian soldiers are better trained (they have been training for years according to NATO standards) and better motivated to fight - they will be defending their homeland against foreign aggression;

- Russia has very small operational reserves, any losses will be extremely difficult to replace;

- Ukrainian army is 225 thousand soldiers (160 thousand in land forces alone plus 20 thousand airborne and special forces), so Russia doesn't have necessary advantage (they only gathered 130 thousand for the attack);

- besides the professional army Ukraine has 25 brigades of territorial defense (100 thousand soldiers and growing), many of them with battle experience, and 42 thousand well-armed Border Guards;

- Ukraine has strong panzer forces and their infantry is equipped with FGM-148 Javelin anti-tank launchers, so life will be very painful (and short) for Russian tankists, if Putin orders the attack;

- Ukrainian infantry is better armed and knows the territory better, so in urban fighting Russian infantry will suffer very high losses;

- Ukraine has over 40-million citizens - even if somehow Russian army defeats Ukrainians (highly unlikely), there is no way they will be able to occupy the country this size and deal with partisan forces supported by NATO;

- The sanctions that would hit Russia would be unheard of before - full economic ban, including SWIFT block. The EU is already preparing for gas shortages which means that high-level decisions have already been made in case of Russian invasion.

Of course, if I know that, it means that Putin knows that as well. Hence, there will be no invasion. He had a very weak hand of cards, so he decided to bluff. Luckily his bluff was called, and now he is desperately looking for a way to escape from this mess with face. There will be no war. :)

Bratwurst Boy
16 Feb 2022  #933

The EU is already preparing for gas shortages which means that high-level decisions have already been made in case of Russian invasion.

*nods*

Von der Leyen could be heard in the german news with assurances....the EU is looking everywhere to fill the shortages should Putin dare!

EU says it is prepared for partial disruption of Russian gas flows.

lbcgroup.tv/news/d/regional/631493/eu-says-it-is-prepared-for-partial-disruption-of-r/en

..."Our models now show that for partial disruption or further decrease of gas deliveries by Gazprom, we are now rather on the safe side," von der Leyen told reporters in Strasbourg on Tuesday.

Russia supplies about 40% of Europe's natural gas. Gas prices soared in Europe as tight supply collided with high demand in economies emerging from the COVID-19 pandemic last year, and amid lower than expected imports from Russia.

The EU has spoken with the United States, Qatar, Egypt, Azerbaijan, Nigeria and South Korea about increasing gas and liquefied natural gas (LNG) deliveries, either through additional shipments or contract swaps, von der Leyen said.


Oh boy....making sure the bestest customer looking elsewhere for my product....Putin is so going to regret that!

GefreiterKania
16 Feb 2022  #934

Von der Leyen could be heard in the german news with assurances...

The EU is acting like she should. A lot of people around the Union are very happy to see it - it will strenghten us internally and significantly decrease anti-EU sentiments.

Oh boy....making sure the bestest customer looking elsewhere for my product

Yip, a really "smart" move!

I think that, at some point, Putin made the mistake of believing his anti-West propaganda. That the USA and EU are rotten, spoiled by luxury and cowardly. That we are weak and dominated by decadent rot (the putinists banging on about "Gayropa" etc.). The worst possible mistake you can ever make - believing your own propaganda. :)

Bratwurst Boy
16 Feb 2022  #935

it will strenghten us internally and significantly decrease anti-EU sentiments.

It's exactly such situations where the EU has to prove itself....in normal peace times it is more like a debate club, which is totally okay....but such a foreign threat is also a make-or-break-crisis!

Right now it looks good....

Crnogorac3
16 Feb 2022  #936

it will strenghten us internally and significantly decrease anti-EU sentiments.

euractiv.pl/section/polityka-zagraniczna-ue/news/chorwacja-prezydent-milanovic-popiera-rosje-przeciw-ukrainie-chorwacki-rzad-sie-od-tych-slow-odcina/

A trouble in paradise? A break in the ranks?

:)

mafketis
16 Feb 2022  #937

A break in the ranks?

Or some deposits in the banks?

Crnogorac3
16 Feb 2022  #938

hr.n1info.com/english/news/milanovic-ukraine-does-not-belong-in-nato/

"Ukraine is still one of the most corrupt countries in the world"

President Milanović says it like it is. Unlike pawian, he doesn't want to support this primarily American war that would be fought down to the last Ukrainian.

GefreiterKania
16 Feb 2022  #939

A trouble in paradise? A break in the ranks?

There is always a black sheep in every family - like the uncle who pats his niece on the ass, a retard cousin who masturbates in the bathroom, or like Russia among Slavic nations. Typical.

Velund
16 Feb 2022  #940

Von der Leyen could be heard in the german news with assurances....

She is professional gynecologist... Is Germany completely converted into the object of her professional competences to believe blindly? ;)

Bratwurst Boy
16 Feb 2022  #941

She had not only earned herself a scientific degree from the university, in the meantime she managed also to make and bring up a gazillion kids (7 till now I think) and manage a quite successful national and now international political career!

You can think of her what you want but she gets things done....

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_von_der_Leyen

Cojestdocholery
16 Feb 2022  #942

Ukrainian soldiers are better trained

How do you know? I don't think that is the case.

Ukrainian infantry is better armed

Again, I don't think that is the case.

so Russia doesn't have necessary advantage

They only need a local advatage. Aslo a lot depends on the higher command and the will to fight.
I don't know what it is like in Ukrainie.
Russian Army is good, well armed, lead by good generals and have exprience with wars in Georgia and Syria.

Cojestdocholery
16 Feb 2022  #943

this primarily American war that would be fought down to the last Ukrainian.

That is not what it is. Ukrainie in NATO is idea of Putin, before nobody talk about it. Ukraine as an independent country - yes that is a good idea - but Putin wanted that counrty to depend on Russia - it backfired in his face.

So - no, it is not American war, it is the war of central europe against Russian aggresion and encrochment.

Right now it looks good....

No it doesn't the EU is attacking Poland and Hungary with some nonsense and Germany revert back to support Russia.

Bratwurst Boy
16 Feb 2022  #944

Germany revert back to support Russia.

That would look different.....and UvL wouldn't need to look elsewhere vor energy deliveries!

(Not to forget that it is Orban who is licking Putin's and chinese boots most in Europe)

Tacitus
16 Feb 2022  #945

Putin is so going to regret that!

Just one of the many mistakes Putin did that will cost Russia dearly long-term. Putin is destroying economic ties that have existed and benefited both countries for more than 40 years.

Bratwurst Boy
16 Feb 2022  #946

Agreed! A really un-Putin like dumb move....

Novichok
16 Feb 2022  #947

it is the war of central europe against Russian aggresion and encrochment.

What aggression and what encroachment?

Ukrainie in NATO is idea of Putin,

A while back, Putin had this crazy dream that one day soon the Baltics will join NATO. What a nut...
BTW, I do recall him saying that he has no plans to "invade Ukraine". He didn't so now he is a coward, right?

The only aggression I see here is yours against the English language.

PolAmKrakow
16 Feb 2022  #948

Putin's plans were exposed that is the only reason nothing has happened yet. Now Putin saying there is a pullback of military, yet no imaging confirming this yet, and other rumors that more troops have actually arrive at the borders.

Ukraine has a bunch of hardware now, and a lot better training than 8 years ago. Putin doesn't want to send bodies home to mommies. He has a choice to make. Say F it and go for it, or leave, there is no middle ground here. Russian paranoia working at its finest.

Novichok
16 Feb 2022  #949

Putin's plans were exposed that is the only reason nothing has happened yet.

Let me see ...A guy who was ready to start WW3 decides to scrap his plans because somebody found a memo saying that he wants his friends to run Ukraine.

Did I get it right?

PolAmKrakow
16 Feb 2022  #950

@Novichok
Pull your head out of Putin's behind. The plans were leaked about a coup. Simple. Now Ukraine is prepared for it and has next to zero chance of success. So, plan B is what? Invade? Go home? Tell everyone they are going home and not really go home? Please. Putin pooped the bed on this and the US espionage system beat him at his own game. Sleepy Joe or not, the military and CIA can now play his information game.

The only person saying anything about WW3 was Putin himself when talking about NATO in Ukraine. NATO is not in Ukraine, and its not on the agenda for discussion, so what's the paranoia problem?

Novichok
16 Feb 2022  #951

NATO is not in Ukraine,

Yet. NATO was not in the Baltics not long ago but we should ignore it. West should be trusted. Putin is a paranoid nut. Putin's approval in Russia is 10%.

OK, kids. Time for lunch.

Tacitus
16 Feb 2022  #952

A really un-Putin like dumb move..

Well, yes and no. Most of Putin's policies and decisions will prove disastrous to Russia long-term, it is however unusual that the consequences might become apparant so soon.

Crow
16 Feb 2022  #953

will prove disastrous to Russia long-term

Really?

Why? NATO react against Russia, Russia react against NATO. Killings. More killings. Flame. Even more killings.

Disaster to all.

You think those who survive on the west of Europe then represent humanity? Like kind of chosen ones?

Novichok
16 Feb 2022  #954

NATO react against Russia, Russia react against NATO.

Did you read that article about how Putin organized the 2014 revolution in Ukraine to be able to deflect from the massive starvation in Russia in 2022?

That's what I call good planning. My kind of guy.

Crnogorac3
16 Feb 2022  #955

So - no, it is not American war

This whole alleged war was invented by the United States which spun all the information about it. All this in order to ensure the sale of their weapons to the Eastern European allies, because the military-industrial complex is the main driver of the American economy. After many years of a complete fiasco in Afghanistan, from which they by running away got out, Biden needed a victory against a great opponent.

mafketis
16 Feb 2022  #956

This whole alleged war ... against a great opponent.

I basically agree with everything here. This is US hype and very dangerous....

Cojestdocholery
16 Feb 2022  #957

Yes and Putin is an American puppet on a string. Does he know about it?

Crnogorac3
16 Feb 2022  #958

youtu.be/fDg0HSLZoD0

Why does the U.S. need a big war in Europe

PolAmKrakow
16 Feb 2022  #959

@Crnogorac3
Its not all USA hype. The Russians were on the doorstep and if unchecked we would be talking about a coup in Ukraine today most likely. The US fanned the flames and doing do pushed Putin out of position and he could not do what he wanted without getting a lot of people on the ground killed before he could react. He played chess and he got mated. Thats the bottom line. But chess always comes with rematches.

mafketis
16 Feb 2022  #960

Yes and Putin is an American puppet on a string

I do wonder if Putin and Biden have maybe agreed behind the scenes to a scenario that would help both..... Biden gets a foreign policy 'success' for 'preventing war' and Putin gets credit for trying to eliminate the heretical non-country of Ukraine...


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Off-Topic / Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invadestop