Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 2

Send the buggers to russia, just as the Russians sent the indigenous population of East Prussia into Germany.


By that logic, the U.K. has a claim on Calais.

Now you mention it...

After the purchase of 500 M142 HIMARS launchers, Poland will have the 2nd most powerful artillery forces in the world (after the USA)...

geekweek.interia.pl/militaria/news-polska-bedzie-miala-najpotezniejsza-artylerie-po-usa-w-nato,nId,6053208

... when we get those Abrams tanks, F-35 fighters and Patriot batteries, Wojsko Polskie will have the strongest land forces in Europe, and the number of soldiers will be raised to 300,000. Plus, the draft to voluntary military service training has already started...

praca.gazetaprawna.pl/artykuly/8420644,dobrowolna-zasadnicza-sluzba-wojskowa-ochotnicy-armia.html

... which will increase the number of trained reservists (always needed in any larger-scale conflict). Hopefully, our government understands that the need to complete this ambitious force build-up plan is urgent and it will go smoothly.


No, I think they will be faithful citizens of Poland. Given a chance to live in a civilised country, they are bound to show their gratitude and assimilate into Polishness, as many others before them did.

this is not a game changer. well depending of the ammunition type they will get.
standard munition is even inferior to smerch or comparable to uragan mrls platforms, platforms that ukraine have plenty of,and they didnt change anything .
guided long range munition would be very deadly for russians tho

This too, but range is the decisive factor - Smerch has maximum range of 90km, M270 MLRS almost 500km with precision strike missiles.


Exactly.

It wouldn't, but Wilno would suit Poland more.


Well, that was Cossacks strong suit that made them victorius. All they need is some Husaria to wipe out their enemy.


In the future ....maybe. Why talk about it now?

yea ,but only with mgm-140 atacms munition..
one 140 atacms missile cost almost million dollar.

One needs to consider future developments and discuss them. It's like a chess game analysis - grandmasters discuss what to do to win the next game, if you catch my drift.


The USA announced 40 billion aid program for Ukraine, and another one is already discussed on top of that.

Ukraine hasn't even started using the lend lease that is available to them yet, and while other country's aid helps, even the smaller ones, it is the United States aid that makes up the majority of the Ukrainian military assistance. I agree that some countries are slow walking their military aid, but Ukraine is still going off of aid that is being given to them and so far Ukraine is probably confident those weapon deliveries from the aid will coincide well enough with when they have enough trained personnel to receive them and begin any additional final training on the actual equipment. If Ukraine thought the promised aid wasn't sufficient, they could start borrowing for additional weapons at any time. And honestly, much of that debt will later be forgiven after the war, just like with the lend-lease in WW2.

Until Ukraine is ready to utilize that equipment, it is better off remaining in the west so Ukraine doesn't have to stockpile it in Ukraine where it would need to be protected against air attack. While there is more that could be done and improvements that could be made in the process, the training piece of it is actually the longer piece compared to the weapons delivery in most cases.

Unless it is something can immediately put into use, immediate delivery is not necessary. The US and the west are actually pretty good at logistics and the planned training timelines and training capacity are a big part of determining the delivery schedules. Ukraine is discussing and planning this out with the US and their other western partners so that the training Ukraine does and the equipment shipments synchronize well. Additional military aid packages are planned as well.

Which is questonable. Some magic number pulled from a hat!


to change top brass in Polish Military is urgent.


that logic is the same when applied to Lithuania and their claim on Wilno or Królewiec.
Is not about claims but geopolitical and economcal nessesity.

It was announced by the Defence Minster himself...

bankier.pl/wiadomosc/Blaszczak-Naszym-celem-jest-to-by-Wojsko-Polskie-liczylo-300-tys-zolnierzy-8307380.html

You Russians are delusional. Nobody cares if he is an Asian or Nigerian. As Russia is not Mongolian becasue people in Russia are mostly Mongols. It is about culture and civlization. Russia has Mongolian culture from the times of the Mongol Empire in short Mongols.

Elevating Snow White as your Tzar wouldn't make you Nordic either.


Let consider if Poland can affort it and if can when will be able to utlize it. In 2037? If that the case why talk about it in subject about Poland's aid to the Ukrianie war with Russia?

It will be long over before those systems land in Poland.


He doesn't know what he is talking about. Why 300 000? Not 500 000? or 234 050?

Well, I suppose somebody competent in the ministry must have considered various factors like cost, infrastructure, available manpower etc. etc. and then announced the plans.

200 years under the Mongols, but only 20 years under the Poles. Opposite would be better.

why? you think you are somehow superior to mongols?
whats with this idea of calling russian mongols as derogatory ? you think of mongols as something worse than you?

lol! We can only hope it seems. I assume they pulled it out of their ass.

Derogatory? Not at all. It's simply a vital part of their ethnic and cultural identity. I assume you are not familiar with the works of a genius Russian poet, Александр Александрович Блок?

The russians have lost their Europeanness over this 200 years and have never regained it until today

ATACMS isn't produced anymore, but the US military is currently implementing a overhaul process to extend the lifetime of the existing stock. Maybe it's possible they will be sold to Poland. The replacement for ATACMS is called PrSM (Precision Strike Missile), and that's the one that has a claimed range of 500km. It's only to be deployed in the future. Again, not ruling out Poland getting its hands on them.

It's not correct to compare HIMARS or M270 in ATACMS or PrSM configuration to a Russian MLRS like Grad or Tornado. When you load with ATACMS only one missile fits. With PrSM it's supposed to be two because they are skinny. The Russian equivalent would be the early Scuds, Tochka-U and Iskander.

Also, just a thought - if you are ordering 500 HIMARS systems (more than there are in the entire world combined, including the US), why don't you invest in developing something locally and help your engineers and scientists. So far it seems Poland is contented with putting it on a Polish truck.

there are 2 modes . one is multi strike and one is single guided missile strike. i meant that this multi strike unguided artillery mode is similar to uragan or inferior to smerch in terms of capability

i doubt US will provide ukra with 500 range missles anyway..this would be massive escalation ,cus ukra are unpredictable,and could strike moscow ect.
and UK hinted that " ukraine SHOULD be armed with long range misses" which hints that they not getting them now.
that points that those US platforms will be used as unguided 50 miles artylery ,which is not game changer. ukra have thos kinda platforms already

@gregy741

I understand that it's main function is to act as a regular MLRS like Smerch or Grad. However, everyone in the media and most on this forum only talk about it in 500KM terms and therefore as some Western Wonder Weapon, and I just wanted to point out that that is a completely different animal when used in the precision strike role. The stocks for those missiles are limited, and their replacements are not yet ready. Doubtful they will even be granted to Poland, because this would threaten Kaliningrad. On the other hand, Poland used to have a ton of Scud-B missiles and nobody seemed to care, so maybe not.

"Help me!!! I'm winning!!!" - Zydenski, Comedian in Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine

We are. HIMARS batteries will be a part of a more complex Polish artillery net - battle management system, artillery computers (Topaz) and many other components (like Jelcz trucks) will be Polish made. Also, most likely, some ammunition - modernised earth-to-earth rockets will be produced in Poland.

we never had those bro.. in missiles department we dont even have,and never had own AA ,apart of pathetic osa system.and some grads/ upgraded to langusta? i believe thats it name

What? If we are talking about 9K72 "Elbrus" (Scud-B in NATO code), then we had 4 full artillery brigades armed with them.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scud_missile
doubt . not mention in wiki. maybe those were soviets stationing in Poland
oh yees sorry. i found it. we had some true. didnt know

Nope. 32. Łużycka Brygada Artylerii, 18. Brygada Artylerii im. gen. dyw. Franciszka Jóźwiaka, 2. Brygada Rakiet Operacyjno-Taktycznych and 3. Warszawska Brygada Artylerii - all received Scud-B missiles in 1970s.

opisybroni.pl/9k72-elbrus-ss-1c-scud-b/?print=print


All right.

@GefreiterKania

And who do we thank for the venerable Scud series? That's right - granddaddy V2, designed by Werner Von Braun. To bad he spent the rest of his life helping Americans get to the moon.

he worked in choreography?hehehe . no, they got there ,am not conspiracy theory guy .

@Bobko

Interesting. I always thought it was an original Russian design. I suppose it's like in this old joke: Kto wynalazł rower? Ruski. U Niemca na strychu. ;)

@GefreiterKania

It's an undeniable fact that the USSR made a tremendous leap through German reparations.

From wiki:

The first use of the term Scud was in the NATO name SS-1b Scud-A, applied to the R-11 Zemlya ballistic missile. The earlier R-1 missile had carried the NATO name SS-1 Scunner, but was of a very different design, almost directly a copy of the German V-2 rocket. The R-11 used technology gained from the V-2 as well, but was a new design, smaller and differently shaped than the V-2 and R-1 weapons. The R-11 was developed by the Korolyev OKB and entered service in 1957. The most revolutionary innovation in the R-11 was the engine, designed by A. M. Isaev. Far simpler than the V-2's multi-chamber design, and employing an anti-oscillation baffle to prevent chugging, it was a forerunner to the larger engines used in Soviet launch vehicles

Funny that the man built his career on bombing Britain, but it's the Americans that get to keep him.