Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 2

Poland doesn't need either Vilnius or Konigsberg and the government of Poland lay claim to neither. Its a good size and shallow already. Plus of course Lithuania is in NATO. And absorbing territory is generally more expensive than it is worth.

Much more important to keep russia within its own borders. Otherwise an unpleasant precedent is set.

This will only be achieved by supplying Ukraine as much weaponry as possible and freezing russia economically.


The days of irredentism and revanchism are past. Unless you're russian since they fetishise it. The bastards have already got their beady little eyes on Moldova.


As most of the population did to one extent or other in the twenties and thirties, it worked then howver assimilation is largely a thing of the past,

There's no justice in this world.

By the way - what is Lavrov banging on about with this "unprecedented national russophobia in certain countries"?

wydarzenia.interia.pl/raporty/raport-ukraina-rosja/aktualnosci/news-lawrow-zachod-wypowiedzial-nam-wojne-totalna-juz-nikt-tego-n,nId,6053795

I hope he doesn't mean Poland. That would hurt my feelings.

Polish Russophobes? Hahahaha. Surely you are joking, or stuck in the past. After the PF II Accords Polish-Russian relations go from height to height.

:)

Indeed. If only things went as smoothly in the real life as on internet boards. Anyways, gotta catch some z's. Доброй ночи.

Isn't it weird how "russophobia" strongly correlates with "being close to Russia physically" or "closely examining Russian policy"???

What a weird coincidence....

i throw some numbers to those who keep repeating garbage about " brutal" "bloody " war.
total deaths of civilians stands at 3.700 as for now
thats twice less that 7000 civilian casualties Iraq suffered in first 5 days of Iraqi war.
total iraqi civilian casualties in iraq war ,,according to most conservative source stands at 110.000( highest estimates ,including post saddam civil war reach up to 1 mil)

Iraq military casualties were 5,388-10,800 and about 4k US soldiers
gives more or less 10 civilians killed for each military killed
in this war in ukraine ,there are about 50k casualties -25k each on both sides.
thats more than 10 military killed to one civilian
its 100 times less civilian per military killed difference in favor of russia ukraine war,compared to US WAR IN IRAQ.
its obvious that Russia is doing everything it can to avoid civilian casualties. and 3.700 number is shocking small ,when you consider intensity and scale
of course every life is important.

@gregy741

Where TF are you getting those figures from?
RT?

What is the obsession with Iraq ? It was 20 years ago. Most of the Russian rapists were toddlers then

@cms neuf

Good point!

just trying to give people some perspective. numbers dont lie
US kills 20 civilians for every 1 military in average
Russians killed about 10 military per one civilian.
thats like 100 times difference in civ/mil ratio
just saying

I think many enough, usually tanks was transported to storage bases in battle-ready condition. But I don't heard about any T-64 line tanks moving to the front (so I can continue my peaceful work at home). ;)

I suspect that interest to T-62 line may be caused by huge existing stock of 115 mm shells, used by cannon of this tanks. And de-facto it would be used not as a regular tank but as self-propelled artillery unit, to grind through fortified positions. Unless some later units with "Ruta" anti-tank automated radar targeting system is removed from storage...

ohchr.org/en/news/2022/05/ukraine-civilian-casualty-update-23-may-2022
statista.com/statistics/1293492/ukraine-war-casualties/
reliefweb.int/report/ukraine/ukraine-civilian-casualties-2400-17-may-2022-enruuk
every single site provide around 3.7k to 4k ukra civilian dead
as for military dead casualties. it is widely accepted that russia lost about 25k and ukra similar number.
it is not know preecise number till war over. cus fog of war.
as for iraq war. its clearly in Wikipedia.(need to different saddam war and post saddam civil war)
and they stand as
iraqi combatant dead (invasion period): 5,388-10,800
and civilian dead about 100k plus.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

Expensive pleasure to use tank as SP-AA, no? From online data it seems max distance for 2A20 cannon using HE-FRAG (ОФС) is 9,000 meters. I'm not a tankist like you, so I have no idea how it would be employed for indirect fire. From what I have read from the correspondents I follow on telegram the idea is to dig them in along Kherson and Zaporozhye lines to prevent possible attempt to counter-attack by AFU.

but can you chill and warm yourselve in a cannon? -no . but you can in a tank.
tank is better artillery

As Leonid Brezhnev once said, "Economics should be economic". ;) Russia have no need to feed military industrial complex and order brand new units to steal as many as posible taxpayer money before next elections, as someone else do now. ;) Old tanks is already in storage bases and after 10 more years will be pure feedstock for steel production. And safe disposal of huge hangars loaded with 115 mm shells will take a lot of money as well.

And this way, shells and tanks paid by our fathers and grandfathers to assure our peaceful childhood will be put to good use. ;)

Catching up on all the opinions here is interesting each morning. All the debate over weapons that Ukraine will get is still not addressing the main subject of this war. Russia has had and used advanced rockets on Ukraine for nearly 100 days now. Russia is running low on rocket stockpiles and tanks. Russia is getting absolutely clobbered in the field by way of dead body and injured soldier counts.

All of this has happened when Ukraine does not have the same advanced rocket systems, as many tanks, as many aircraft, or any navy to speak of to launch attacks from sea. When Ukraine gets these multiple launch systems and all the other hardware they have been promised, Russia will only have a navy advantage and we have already seen that they can be attacked and neutralized as well.

Russia has made some advances in the Donbass, as expected. And they will make more advances in the coming weeks. Once Ukraine gets the rockets though, the whole game changes and Russia is going to be pounded to death quite literally. The Donbass will become a wasteland and will be taken back. Crimea is Russia's biggest future problem. With all the Russians there, what do they do when rockets start falling on them? This is going to be a long war unless Putin is killed.

Yes, 50 year old Soviet tanks.


You mean the Jave barbecue party in Ukraine? Yes, very good use. The more, the merrier. :):)

Exactly as in famous Ukrainian saying - "Дурень думкою богатіє"... ;)

Russia should use precision long range weapons where virtually free soviet times shells and free falling bombs can be used instead. ;) Otherwise Russia is bankrupt and starting to lose this very profitable (for Raytheon et al.) war. ;) Russian troops cowardly advance, while valiant Ukrainians bravely retreat to new positions. ;)

stop invading other countries that want nothing to do with the Russkij Mir (an intellectually and morally bankrupt idea).

Try to build up your own country rather than destroy others.

Maybe get indoor plumbing to your entire population before rhapsodizing about.... whatever it is that Russians like to rhapsodize aobut.... or are outhouses an inherent part of Russkij Mir?

@velund

Russia should use precision long range weapons where virtually free soviet times shells and free falling bombs can be used instead.
In order to kill the most civilians possible Russia is doing just that.

Otherwise Russia is bankrupt and starting to lose this very profitable (for Raytheon et al.) war.
Russia will be bankrupt within a year if they keep defaulting on debt payments.

Russian troops cowardly advance, while valiant Ukrainians bravely retreat to new positions.
The Russian advance by conscripts with a gun to their heads you mean? Ukraine stands up too the Russian bear and the bear can not win. What about the retreat from Kiev? Yes, I know, Russia strategically wanted to kill a about 10 thousand of their own men just so it felt like a real war.

Your utter lack of intelligence is not surprising any more. Typical Russian. Happy gulag!

Something happened to the Washington Post. They published an article today that goes beyond even Russian state news reporting, in terms of how savage it is towards the Ukrainian military.

Some weeks ago Ukraine made it illegal for its own journalists to report from the frontlines, but foreign journalists still can. This reporter seems to have been embedded with a front line unit of volunteers for some time. Article titled: "Ukrainian Volunteer Fighters in the East Feel Abandoned"

washingtonpost.com/world/2022/05/26/ukraine-frontline-russia-military-severodonetsk/

Amongst the "shockers" (as far as seeing it in a Western paper) are:

Out of a unit of 120 men, only 54 are alive.

Exercises and training consisted of firing 30 rifle rounds.

After being promised to not be put any further forward than the third line of defense, these fellas were rotated directly to frontline in Luhansk.

4 grenade launchers for 15 people.

Living on one potato a day and sleeping in basements with rats

Spending most days crouching in trenches and wishing that their own tanks would stop shooting at Russians since it attracts fire onto their positions.

Completely indifferent command, that in one case literally moved the battalion headquarters without notifying the commander being interviewed. He drove through artillery fire to the base, only to find it empty and stripped of supplies.

Nearly no radio equipment available.

Oh boy. I feel like somebody threw the switch on the news a week ago or so, and suddenly there's just a torrent of sh!t being poured on Ukraine after three months of touting their invulnerability and military genius. Seems the approach adopted in the first months of the war towards the information campaign has finally started to crack. The staggering losses and incongruity of what is happening with what is being reported by the Kiev government has finally come to bite them in the ass as people are becoming enraged for being lied to.

A top comment on one Ukrainian website under an article about Russian advances in the east was "Stop lying and treating us like Russians, and start telling us the truth."

Oh my. Such scandal! Such amateurishness! Such incompetence!

One might think that the "2nd army in the world" would defeat such incompetent rabble of one-potato-a-day-eaters very quickly, but it's already 3 months and the peasants under "indifferent command" are doing rather well, aren't they? :) It's one thing to fight an evenly balanced war against "second army in Europe, trained by NATO standards, flooded with most modern weapons from all over the world" etc., but not being able to have a decisive victory over such a sorry bunch of 30-rifle-rounds-trained infantrymen is quite embarassing, isn't it? :)

Literally hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers surrendering daily. In many cases as entire units. On the Russian side the flow has slowed to a trickle.

Multiple other units have posted videos on Facebook where they are declaring that they are withdrawing because they cannot carry out idiotic orders without any of the necessary support. In one case, already, such a unit was arrested wholesale and placed in detention. I'm sure that's gonna do wonders for morale in the army at large, especially on top of the law proposed in parliament last week (which mercifully failed), to give unit commanders the right to execute their subordinates for refusing to carry out orders.

Ukraine is sending raw volunteers and territorial defense units directly to the front line without any preparation or support. Where are the regular AFU formations? Why are they throwing unprepared people towards certain death?

Is the reason because they are trying to save the regular formations for some epic counter offensive, while using the dumb volunteer meat to buy themselves time? Highly questionable strategy, if I may say so - which will politically explode in their face. Especially as thousands of families across Ukraine begin to search for their relatives on Russian telegram groups and LDNR websites listing POWs, given the complete information blackout in Ukrainian media concerning losses and surrenders.

Such incompetence!

The only option for Russian army now is to order their elite 2nd army in the world to roll over this one-potato-a-day rabble in the greatest blitzkrieg the world has ever seen. :) Shock and awe. :)

Ha, ha, ha... sorry... I couldn't resist.

For the time being the mighty Krasnaya Armiya wasn't able to close the encirclement around Сєвєродонецьк and had to retreat to previous positions there. Those potato-eating amateurs must be doing something right. :)

They're doing extremely well, and more heavy artillery is reaching them.

This was always going to be the hardest part of the war.

Meanwhile, Putler is drafting in national guard to bolster his numbers since 30000 of his orcs are nicely dead and western resolve is undiminished as is the determination of Ukrainians to defend their land.

Want it supposed to be over in a week?

so when you are going fullfil your patriotic dudy and join your people in the field, you need to go there now or you will be to late to get a glorius name of Russian veteran.

@GefreiterKania

Yes, they are delaying the inevitable at an enormous cost in lives, out of a misplaced hope that the time won will allow western weapons to arrive to the front in numbers. Meanwhile, the Russian military is observing their "Thermopylae" heroics, throwing out a fraction of the men, and simply continuing to pound them from a distance.

It is impossible to tear your eyes away from how Ukraine serially throws away formations into encirclements. Is it so difficult to pronounce the word "retreat"? They saw the writing on the wall regarding Severodonetsk and Lisichanks weeks ago. Yet they patiently waited in place until they got encircled. Amazing strategy from the bunker in Kiev.

We are Ukrainians. We do not surrender, we evacuate. We do not retreat, we get "temporarily encircled". Encircled in a pre-trial detention facility in Rostov.

On the ground in Ukraine with the last evacuation team out of Lyman.
The scramble to rescue those surrounded on three sides by the Russian army in Lyman has become more urgent with each passing day.
On Thursday, the last Ukrainian soldiers finally pulled out and blew up the only bridge into town as Russian artillery continued to hammer it.
This week ITV News filmed with Ukraine's 13th Assault company of its territorial defence force as their troops braved the shelling to evacuate the dwindling number of civilians left in the town.

youtube.com/watch?v=tsVNnWnk48Q

Erm... of course you realise that Russian losses so far have been much heavier than Ukrainian, don't you? Or are the Russian sources telling something else?


Could you name those encirclements? I don't see them on my map. Where are they?


Neither Severodonets nor Lisichansk are encircled.



liveuamap.com/pl/2022/28-may-at-bakhmut-direction-russian-forces-conducted-assault

All the attempts at closing the encirclement were repelled.

@GefreiterKania

I know they are not encircled, what I am saying is that they are about to be. If you think this is not the case, we'll have to agree to disagree. From what I have read it may be a question of hours, days, or maximum a week.

The prior encirclement was of course, Mariupol - strange that you forget so fast. The group there numbered 8-14,000 on the first day of encirclement. In the end only around 3,000 were left alive to surrender. In the forming Severodonetsk cauldron there are an estimated 11,500 men. Earlier in '14 and '15 it was Ilovaysk and Debaltseve. I think there are still many mini cauldrons to come.

@ Amiga

The blowing up of the bridge in Liman is its own hilarious story. But yes, in that instance they are retreating - retreating away from a Russian pincer which is attempting to shut a trap on their comrades. IMHO this is a little different than giving an order to everyone inside the Severodonetsk cauldron to get up and go ASAP. That order has not been given. It's not just me, Bobko Russian Troll, that is asking this. For example, leading Ukrainian military journalist Yuri Butusov, wrote a whole article about it this week - asking what's the point?