Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 2

Hey, I do understand Russia and its aims. That is not a problem. The problems is that for Poland Russian aims are not good.

yes, but there must be some common ground and compromise
in Poland ,there is some presumption being pushed,that this attack is result of Putin insanity,or aggressiveness wwhatever .this is for silly masses explanation.

but the truth is that Putin is in power for decades and he was ALWAYS easy and ready to negotiate with. he was very predictable and easy to reach agreement with.

you just make 2 steps,take one step back when it gets too hot.
i dont know what happened here , there must have been some major diplomacy blunder before invasion.some say that Bidens administration is nonfunctional.or they were willing this confrontation

not really, there are different opinions out there, that all, that is not a prevalent narrative.


What common ground? Russia will push its agenda unless there is a force to stop them. There is no common ground. First they would have to recognize Poland as their partner in negotiation and I don't see that happening.


Putin miscalculated on few issues.

Georgian war was stopped by french diplomacy not by US weapon deliveries

The headline today in Germany's biggest tabloid:

Delay, deceive, twirl

YOU make us the most embarrassing NATO country

The government paints a worse and worse picture

bild.de/bild-plus/politik/inland/politik-inland/scholz-und-lambrecht-sie-machen-uns-zum-peinlichsten-nato-land-80242198,view=conversionToLogin.bild.html

I told ya....most Germans are so fed up with this gov!

Iron may be onto something - Scholz does act like a Russian agent: he's repeating the words of support for Ukraine but his actions are exactly what Russia wants.

Put your intelligence officers to work - they're bound to finds something stinking on the guy (what Russians already know and use).

Meanwhile, Ukraine is losing the war...

wiadomosci.onet.pl/tylko-w-onecie/ukraina-przegrywa-wojne-zla-prawda-jest-lepsza-od-zadnej-polemika/5wnn6qk

... a realistic look at things by an experienced war correspondent.

Yeah....that's why that is so fatal!

@GefreiterKania
Excellent article. Only caveat is that while yes Russia has taken more land mass, they have done so by loss of life and machinery. Those calculations can not be ignored. If any country keeps throwing people on the front line, eventually the country with the most men would win in theory. But what do they have left after sacrificing so many men and resources, what have they gained? I still believe that once the heavy equipment arrives and counters can be made, that the land gains will be reduced. The body count and loss of equipment will continue in Ukraines favor. Time is the greatest asset Ukraine has, if they do not use it wisely, only then can Russia win.

Then why aren't they making their displeasure known?

Oh they do.....polls and surveys make the gov sweating.....we had recently two elections, one in Schleswig-Holstein and another in Nordrhein-Westfalen (NRW)...and in both Scholz' SPD lost badly....in both the parties pro Ukraine/pro heavy weapons delivery/pro more support won big (the Greens and the CDU).

Germany: CDU wins Schleswig-Holstein state election

The conservative CDU has won by a wide margin in the northern state of Schleswig-Holstein, according to official results. The poll was seen as a test of Chancellor Olaf Scholz's response to the Ukraine war.

dw.com/en/germany-cdu-wins-schleswig-holstein-state-election/a-61726509

Germany: Scholz's party defeated in bellwether North Rhine-Westphalia election

In a blow to Chancellor Olaf Scholz's SPD party, voters backed the conservatives, CDU, in an election Germany's most populous state. The Greens meanwhile more than doubled the number of votes they received.

dw.com/en/germany-scholzs-party-defeated-in-bellwether-north-rhine-westphalia-election/a-61803497

There is not much more left to do in a democracy.....

Russia lies are so blatant and ridiculous.... how can anyone respect a country that assumes people in other countries are as stupid as those who consume Russian media at home?

twitter.com/andersostlund/status/1527532436413874176


There's protesting.... Poles and Ukraine are both good at that.... could, you know, give you some pointers....

Just yesterday was a big Ukraine-Event in Berlin, in front of the Brandenburger Tor....




With a show in front of the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin under the motto "Save Ukraine - #StopWar", music stars from Ukraine commemorated the war that had been raging in their homeland for almost 100 days and solicited donations for hospitals. Around 15,000 spectators watched the donation marathon on site on Sunday evening, according to the organizers and the police. Ukrainian TV channels also broadcast the charity event live, and broadcasters from other countries also broadcast it. ....

rbb24.de/politik/thema/Ukraine/beitraege/berlin-brandenburger-tor-save-ukraine-stop-war-spenden-selenskyj-scholz.html

Otherwise puts Corona still a damper on things...I dunno....especially as its hard to define for what or against what people should protest....I mean Scholz says the right things (pro Ukraine / anti Putin) and promises the right stuff (money and weapons)....it's only that he seemingly doesn't deliver....or does he and we common plebs just don't know the full picture???

Award for the most obvious statement in the thread (or perhaps in the history of the forum) goes to... PAK! "They're winning guys, but they're using resources to achieve it". Hahahaha. You just can't make this sh!t up, lol. This is the same guy that calls everyone that replies to his posts a retard and a piece of sh!t.

Did you know, that in the American Civil War - 8 percent of all white men aged 13 to 43 died, including 6 percent in the Union and 18 percent in the Confederacy? Somebody should have warned them that they were expending unconscionable amounts of men and matériel, out of proportion to the task at hand... best just to go home. America would be a much better place today if it was split in two, and each side's right to perpetuate their peculiar institutions was respected, right?

If you think Russians do not feel or care about losses, then you are wrong. The loss of each soldier is a bitter tragedy, but not to be shared in a degenerate company of Russophobes, like this. However, if you think that there is a threshold beyond which we will not proceed - then you are also wrong. This is a war for the future, and for our country's soul and its place in the world. In a battle of wills over Ukraine, we know we only have to wait long enough for you to decide you don't ultimately care about Ukraine to the same degree as we do. Rightly so.

Better to send the weapons that were promised months ago and not yet delivered rather than have a party.

And of course stop paying them for gas.


Surely that's all finished now.

Germany would be problem to Poland, again. Incoming.

...in Ukraine land????

@Bratwurst Boy

Better than on Russian land, though I agree with you - the distinction here is a subtle one.

That's one way of looking at things. Another is that every single day Ukrainian villages and cities are being razed to the ground by Russian artillery and the war is taking its toll on Ukrainian economy - it might contract even by 40% this year, compared to Russia's 10-15%. Why do you think Poland is buying sh*tloads of artillery? Because that's what's winning the war for the Russians at the moment. If we learnt anything from this conflict (apart from the fact that Russian army's capabilities were, on the whole, hugely overestimated) is that Russian infantry and tankists aren't worth a sh*t, but their artillery is quite efficient. Russia is constantly shelling Ukraine and Ukraine has very little to respond with - that's why Poland, herself having shortages in artillery - has just sent 18 Krab tracked gun-howitzers to Ukraine, but that's just a drop in the sea of what they need.

Meanwhile, in France they are talking about helping Putin to "save face", Germany has Mr Scholz at helm (enough said), and American help, though substantial, is nothing what it should be if the aim is really containing the aggressive enemy and sending a message to China as well. The message, so far, hasn't been unambiguous, I'm afraid.

So, that's how it looks like at the moment. We are all counting on Ukrainian defiance and resilience but they are not infinite... and longer this war lasts, the more Mr Scholzs and Mr Macrons will appear all over the West. The longer it last, the more western societies - used to luxury, cheap oil and gas etc. - will put pressure on their governments to "make a deal" with Russia. Quite sad but here we are.

Fortunately two countries have consistently come through and stepped up to the mark.

In a crisis like this, looking after number one by appeasement is just storing up problems for later.

NordStream One needs capping off permanently and this needs doing now. And Ukraine needs more weapons and support unblocking its ports and restoring sea access.

Surely you meant "This is a special operation for the future"?

You see, that's what ultimately is the problem with Russia - you just don't respect other countries - you treat them with contempt and that's exactly what you get in return (with certain exceptions of cowards and traitors of which, unfortunately, there is a certain number in every society).

You think that you have the right to take away from people what's dearest to them: their lives, their freedom and their independence in the name of your imperial delusions of grandeur. That's why you are hated, and that's why ultimately you will lose (even if you temporarily win in Ukraine). The time of Mongol hordes (and it's not a slur, it's an analogy) is long gone - in the long run the Free World will be victorious, because you can take people's lives - you can raze their cities with artillery, murder their women and rape their children - but as long as they remain free in their hearts, your fate is sealed, and all your crimes, all the blood and tears will come back to you eventually.

One can only hope. We will need cool heads can help bring about a negotiated peace eventually that ends the bloodshed. Defeating Russia decisively as some seem to hope is not an option to anyone who thinks responsibly.

A Russian withdrawal.

In other words, force Ukraine to make territorial concessions so that Germany can go back to sucking on Russian hydrocarbons....


Appeasing Russia (as the EU did in 2014) is just a recipe for a bigger military confrontation later.

Russia will not stop. It's bloodlust will not go away on its own.

Russia has no honor and will not follow any agreement made... look at the trail of broken agreements and try to learn something.

Russia has to be stopped.

There is a difference between stopping and defeating Russia. For the former, Ukraine needs to be able to fight Russia to a standstill which might happen soon. The latter would mean pushing Russia out of Ukraine. Even if Russia refrains from using nuclear weapons in such a scenario and with the most optimistic assumptions it would still take several more months of warfare until this could become realistic. Many more months of death and destruction, the brunt of which would be suffered by Ukraine. Hardly a desireable outcome.

@Tacitus, would you be so kind to leave that decision to Ukrainians? After all, it's their land and it's their people getting killed, not yours.

@GefreiterKania, awesome post (#12,474)! 👏

Ukrainian band Kalush Orchestra, the winners of this year's Eurovision Song Contest, have sold their Eurovision trophy at a charity auction for $900,000 and will use the money to buy three drones for the Ukrainian Armed Forces:

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=437488555043912&id=100063483126516

A satirical comic strip by Andrzej Rysuje:

facebook.com/100044407387048/posts/575932273897014/

First panel:

"Ukraine can give Putin a bit of land."

Second panel:

"This much."

:)


Why are you listening to Russian propaganda then? lol


But that's exactly what you were doing in that former Royal Marine's case (Grant). Eventually you wrote that you don't care (what the truth is). So, you're either a pathetic hypocrite or simply a fraud.

And you have just made the clearest point of why Russia must be destroyed. People are not "resources" to be used. This is a Russian state of mind, and it is why you Orc's are just meat for the machine.

Taking land mass in a small country, by my standards being from the USA originally, is not a significant achievement for a country the size of Russia. Lets not forget, most of this land mass is villages and very small cities with very little population. With 150 thousand men at the border this is all Russia can do? I am not impressed or afraid of any Russian army. Poles in general are not either.

So when the bombs, not artillery, start falling in Crimea and all along the front lines. Those Russian "resources" will be used pretty quickly. And then the real war begins. This now is a poorly armed militia fighting against an extremely large army, and they are having success. Success that no Russian admits while they make excuses for invading another country unprovoked. A nation that Russia gave security guarantees to in the 90's in exchange for their removal of nukes. Russia and Russians like you are absolutely POS and should be taken out. Happy gulag biatches!

ukra conducted terrorist attack in melitpol. in packed shopping mall. tried to kill family of Russian appointed mer Balitskyy
hes niece got injured and many other civilians. going after family. work of ukra SBU written all over(givi, motorolla, zacharchenko)you know what i mean

twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1531154337925316609
twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1531163307800920067
"The powerful explosion in the center of #Melitopol blew out the windows of nearby houses. According to the local media, the occupiers are panicking."
this is from ukrainian state news agency. its worth noting how Ukrainian media label local population of melitpol now as " occupiers"

The Ukrainians decide how long and to what aim they continue fighting. But the sooner the killing stops the better and if Scholz and others can help bring this about then fine.

They cannot.

It will only end with Putin well and truly gone, believe you me......

Everything what happens now is part of Putin's very own dream....the negation of his very own 89'er trauma.....it's all very personal!