Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 2

@Bobko
The US is not perfect. I believe it is on the verge of a civil war, and both major parties should be destroyed. JMO though. The US as imperfect as it is, is still better than Russia. I would debate that Ukraine is safer than Russia. In Ukraine I have never had any issues with personal security, in Russia I have bodyguards everywhere I go. I have never had a problem in business in Ukraine, in Russia nothing but problems.

Every country has its problems democratic or not. That said, the main issue here is that every country has an absolute right to settle their own problems and not be invaded by any other country who thinks they should be able to solve the problems for them. If all nations claimed the "Peter The Great" mentality Putin is espousing then we would all constantly be at war. Past performance is not a solid indication of future performance and this is what we are seeing with the war in Ukraine.

Well perhaps it's not so appropriate, for serving politicians, to be participating in actions that undermine the very institutions to which they've been elected. This is of course a matter of debate. Perhaps a little surprised to see you adopt this approach, but that's all.

Yanukovych stealing billions is neither here nor there. This is Ukraine's business and cannot concern Russia. If governments had the ability to unilaterally violate agreements made by past governments through claims of odious enrichment then there would likely be no such thing as foreign direct investment. Thankfully, governments tend to continue servicing their debts, and honoring agreements, even if entered into by former corrupt executives. When they do not they are taken to international court. There is a principle of succession at stake, which makes what Yanukovych steals Ukraine's business only.

Some countries don't even forbid their companies from bribing foreign officials - this is the degree to which it can be of no concern.


Honestly, at that point I would begin to suspect something insidious. I'm already thoroughly disbalanced by PAK's compliment.


Still you compliment my writing? Stick to your words Jon!

They were showing solidarity with a popular action in support of democratic institutions against a traitor and thief who had abused those institutions. And poisoned his rival.

They weren't though, were they...


Don't take it as a compliment. You spew propaganda here n behalf a murderous system that is invading a country on Poland's borders.

To repeat: you justify murder and rape. You are scum.

Seems like the Ukris like their 250 T-72M Tanks they got from Poland. :) Always like the unboxing videos.
The improvements over the ukranian models are thermal sight, more powerfull motor, and better armour

reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/v8kk2h/its_like_comparing_a_mercedes_with_a_lada_its_a/

Thanks for the customary "scum". Keeps me on my toes.

I justify murder and rape as much as any person who supports his side in war. I personally abhor these things, but not enough to want to see my side lose. I'm not some 19th century Quaker, or the Dalai Lama.

I feel like that is the sentiment coming from you and everyone here who thinks Russians arrived yesterday on a spaceship from Mars or Jupiter. It's as though the last war happened a thousand years ago, and we Russians, are the only idiots to still be talking about doing a new one.

You regularly start wars that have been many times more bloody than what is happening in Ukraine. You don't seem to think of yourselves as the butchers of Fallujah or Najaf, or the rapists of Kandahar. Yet, you seem upset when a Russian shrugs off these accusations. How so?

So you justify murder and rape by russists in the pay of their government.

That and mass executions of civilians with bound hands as well as abductions and deportations.


I've never started a single one.


Because we are talking about the illegal and unprovoked russian invasion of Ukraine.

Not some other historical war in another continent.

Putin admits Ukraine invasion is an imperial war to "return" Russian land
sports.yahoo.com/putin-admits-ukraine-invasion-imperial-171600302.html

Putin compares himself to Peter the Great in quest to take back Russian lands


It was never about nazis, NATO or any excuse. It is an imperialistic war.

I see.

For your position to be perfectly hermetically sound, now you must tell me that at no point during the recent conflicts your home country had participated in did you feel pride for your armed forces or wish them speedy success in their mission? From the outset, presumably, you knew it was all folly and that to speak approvingly of it meant to condemn oneself to being a moral participant? You were clear eyed as to the possibility of excesses resulting in civilian casualties, and therefore you adopted from the beginning a position of complete pacifism?

Correct?


Good boy. Here's your lollipop!

Why would it have to be "perfectly hermetically sound". and why would a view on current affairs need to be a "position"? This isn't a debating society?

And why would other wars on other continents at other times be relevant? We are discussing russia's illegal and unprovoked invasion of Ukraine


War
Not "excesses". War crimes including the deliberate mass execution of civilians in Bucha.

russia will be stopped. Ukraine will prevail. You are scum.

Why do you brag about your gun? Why you say that you will use it on anyone who break in into your house?
You are not very good with it after all, a bad guy might take it away from your and use it on you and your family. It could accually make a worse for yourslef and your family.

Why do you need that gun? To drop it and rise your hands? It is your choice.
Yet you refuse Ukrainians their choice. Do you think they are forced to fight? Those who dont want to fight either hide or flee. Dementia much?


Yes you are, and if you don't see that your are stupid.


Russian don't understand grass roots movement, demostrations, protests and so on. For them it is always work of some ogranizations, foreign special services, that support people with money, directions and agents who lead those people here or there.

That is their blind spot. They will never belive that people by themselves would get together and start demonstration or anything other than a riot.

As for democracy, that is not an issue here,
Whatvere had been, is or will be happening in Ukrainie that is not Russian busines. Russia should keep it snout out of it - it is simple as that!

If you will feel more comfortably, let's name it a imperialistic war between russian imperialists and US/UK imperialists with use ukrainian nazis as a proxy and expendable material on first stage of war.

Let's not.

It is the illegal and unprovoked invasion by russia of a sovereign democratic state which is historically and culturally close to Poland.


He's pretending. In real life he is anti-gun.

Actually it had been the german Nazis which invaded their neighbours for german "Lebensraum".....its a very Nazi thing to do....

Any names of victims, conclusions of pathologists, something else that is necessary to start criminal case against suspects?

Ask the prosecutors and the ICCJ. They are currently collecting the abundant evidence of war crimes prior to the trial.

This is well enough publicised.

14000 dead people in Donbass alone, a lot of them is citizens of Russia, is a bit too much for "unprovoked". And maybe someone else would talk about legality, not the someone from country that started lion share of armed conflicts in the past century.

Nothing so complicated, Putin's just retarded. As if his internal policy wasn't clue enough.

So you have nothing to say except quoting usual propaganda?

@Velund
Propaganda?

Is it "propaganda" that there is an ongoing war crimes investigation and that there will be a trial?

Or is it the truth?


Learn English.

Lol @ you telling Velund to learn English.

In regards to the ICJ... I'll just leave this wiki quote here:

Article 94 establishes the duty of all UN members to comply with decisions of the court involving them. If parties do not comply, the issue may be taken before the Security Council for enforcement action. There are obvious problems with such a method of enforcement. If the judgment is against one of the permanent five members of the Security Council or its allies, any resolution on enforcement would then be vetoed. That occurred, for example, after the Nicaragua case, when Nicaragua brought the issue of the United States' noncompliance with the court's decision before the Security Council. Furthermore, if the Security Council refuses to enforce a judgment against any other state, there is no method of forcing the state to comply.

Yes, propaganda, accusation of Russian troops that was stationed there for some time in a mass executions using staged videos with dead bodies moving their hands and standing in a rear view mirror, and then suddenly a lot of dead bodies with flechettes from shrapnel howitzer shells presented to french experts as a victims of "russian executioners" (in reality bodies of locals from a mass grave made during heavy shelling from ukrainian army).

What about raped babies, of course?

Yes. It is poor. Especially when he's flustered.


Which is why Ukrainian prosecutors are involved.

Perhaps it's better that the trials in Ukraine anyway.

Surely you don't think that russian war criminals should be allows to get away with the Bucha atrocities or the rapes?

Perhaps you do.

And don't assume that russia will retain the soviet union's Security Council seat for ever.

@Bobko
I will just leave you with the comment that the UN can kick Russia out any time they want. It really is a useless body anyway. It should be dismantled. Russia, not only due to this unprovoked war, should never be allowed to sit at an international table again until Putin is dead. Just that simple. Isolation is the best medicine for this disease of the mind. Russians, and their thinking are products of their environment, and until the environment changes, they will always be this way.

Awesome article about the sanctions - Putin is succeeding in his ambitions of recreating the CCCP as cars and planes ground to a halt

theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/11/the-return-of-banditry-russian-car-industry-buckles-under-sanctions

Velund might need to walk to the 24 hour sushi bar

Rich won't be singing about Da Lexus and Da Rolexes any more - back to Moskvitch and Poljot LOL

Yep. That'll do it.

Stripping Russia of UNSC veto would be a nuclear war-level provocation. Few things truly are, despite the rhetoric, but that's surely one. Not sure how it would be done, but if it were - that would be the result.

@PAK

Regardless of how much you hate the UN (so do we), it's the only global forum for people to meet and hear out each other's positions. It's deeply flawed, but much better than each of us sitting in our walled gardens.


When will you finally explain this? I already asked once before. I must know.

Against the whole UN?


It's barely the beginning.

Where in Donbas? On Ukrainian terriotry? Shouldn't send your millitary there and noone would die.
That in happned in Donbas is for the one reason only your Russian citiznes fighting hybird war against Ukrainie and took tanks and rockets there. What international law let you do that?

none, so you are an agressor! Those dead are on you and all Russian citzens that died there had it coming.


You can use it only so far, if you would use it because of a seat on some counsil it is better to nuke you now! Before you find your rusty keys to thsoe bombs.

Against the US. Well, and the Brits - for good measure - since they spawned this kraken, and taught it most of its worst tricks. I imagine the rest of the world would be huddled in a corner, recoiling in horror (at the idiocy of kicking us out and the events it provoked).

Poland, I think, would be spared nuclear annihilation. It's just those two I listed above that we would really want to take together with us on a trip to Hades, if that's how things must play out. The others, at the end of the day, don't deserve to be included in the mutually assured destruction.

From what I've read in recent academic literature, the effects for the planet will be comparatively short-lasting outside of the wastelands of Russia and the United States. This is in contrast to the old narrative that there would be a decades long nuclear winter wiping out nearly everything on the planet. Perhaps Poles and Mongolians could find a new understanding, as they begin to share a border. Canadians and Mexicans will dig subterranean highways allowing them to trade with each other under the glass sheet covering America. The Paris Climate goals will be achieved decades ahead of schedule, and everybody can go back to driving whatever petrol car their heart desires.

Where is Kosovo? On Yugoslavian (Serbian) territory? Or "that's another case"?

It would of course be the greatest mistake that russia ever made, since they would get the entire arsenal of the US, the UK and France launched at then.


Quite, however the populated parts of Russia would no longer be populated and their bunkers would under a metre of glass.

The geography of Western Europe oddly enough would act in its favour.


In Kosovo of course.