Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 2

@Velund; and most of them is Poles.
Poles who do not speak Polish.

Well I generally don't judge people or countries by what they did more than 50 years ago, unless there is some historical trend for that behavior having continued during that time.

Do you have any information that some decisions of that type was decided on referendum in USSR? I suspect that georgian and jewish family names was prevalent on a signatures under sentences and orders...

You Putin's shills are hilarious with this pretended "outrage" at volunteers fighting on the Ukrainian side lol You think that what Russian soldiers are doing in Ukraine? Giving flowers? No, they're killing people too.

Btw, I don't recall any outrage when volunteers from other countries were joining the separatists in the Donetsk and Luhansk. On the contrary, Russians were even bragging that those "mercenaries" are joining their cause! Double standards much?


They were saying the same in case of Americans fighting alongside the Kurds against ISIS. I've watched a very good documentary about it on Discovery Channel or National Geographic ("Hunting ISIS"):

m.imdb.com/title/tt8372660/

I've never seen such an honest/uncensored documentary in terms of showing what happens to civillians during war... They were showing, among others, the work of a former American combat medic treating both Iraqi soldiers and civillians literally almost at the frontline. Heart-breaking.

I recommend watching it, especially to PF armchair warriors.


There we go, whenever Russians want something they claim that Russia=the Soviet Union, but whenever someone talks about the bad things that the Soviet Union did then suddenly it's "But Stalin was from Georgia... and... Jews... JEWS EVERYWHERE"! lol You orcs are both hilarious and pathetic.

Especially since they tried to pay Syrians to become orc cabin fodder.

Apparently most refused when they saw the orc casualty figures.


Hypocritical, dishonest, stupid and pathologically demented. They hate losing.

Too late to edit.

The last part should read "orc cannon fodder".. Not cabin fodder.

Some interesting reports about orcs drugging other (almost unarmed) orcs and forcing them into the line of fire. Apparently there are bits of meat all over the place. The Ukrainian soldiers who were quoted said had its just like a shooting range and easier than target practice.

telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/06/15/drugged-separatists-thrown-line-fire-russia-cannon-fodder-ukraine/

Three reasons why Russia won't have a bigger army

It needs money and Russia won't have any once people find alternatives to your oil - any money that is earmarked for the army is in any case funneled off to buy yachts

It needs people but Russians are too drunk / old to reproduce

We won't let you expand your army under the peace deal that follows Russia's defeat

And yet you are cheering to


No, they are recognized as members of Ukraine's armed forces by international law, including the Geneva conventions.

ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/protocol-additional-geneva-conventions-12-august-1949-and
ohchr.org/en/node/3383/international-standards

Any person formally part of a nation's armed forces cannot be a mercenary, and has all the protections as a legal combatant.

Foreign volunteers is a long established practice and being one does not make someone a mercenary.

Meanwhile in a real world...


daily-sun.com/printversion/details/626771/Russia-to-export-agriproducts-to-%E2%80%98friendly-countries%E2%80%99-only

Reports from British intelligence suggested that the Russian army is severely undermanned.... (back in April or so the prediction was that this would happen by sometime in June and not improve without mass mobilization which is a high risk move for the russian government)

twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1537382521830363136

Some units have 5% of what they usually do? Crazy! A ruler who cared for the Russian people would stop this debacle and bring his troops home.

But we're talking about Russia whose leader has the people in his zhopa.... so.....

Putin lies as usual. Nothing new.


Yup. But it's not only him... I've got an impression that RuSSians have their own people in their zhopas too. And they have no empathy for people in general and no respect for human life, it seems.

We don't need or want your grain. Here in Poland we hve plenty of food and farmers are already reputposing land for bigger crops next year. We don't buy food from fascists.

Sell it to your "friendly" countries who really only eat rice and sorghum. Or turn it into kawa zbozowa - it will come in handy in winter when real coffee means queuing up at 7am with a bunch of headscarves who chatter constantly about their missing sons

Russian... oh the humanity they're banning Russian! People should have the right to speak whatever language they want! Ooooohhhhh the humaaaanityyyyyy!

Also Russia... don't you dare speak or write in Ukrainian!!!!!

twitter.com/lapatina_/status/1537400156919824384

Probably trying to blackmail President Zelenskiy into conceding territory and lives in order to protect their geopolitical interests and exports to russia

@Jon

Why is it a bad thing, for people to stop dying and for trade between nations to resume? Would you speak this way, Jon, if your son or brother was at the front? When looking at this thread - it's you and your cohort that are motivated by "geopolitical" reasons, that seem to eclipse any humanitarian concern. It may be an expression of Polish self-preservation, but still a bad look.

In actual fact your "geopolitical" preoccupations are a lcomplete joke. Russia will not attack Poland - FULL STOP. There is no appetite for this, and it's utility to us does not compare with Ukraine's.

For the time being Poland and Hungary are doing an excellent job exploding the EU from within, so why would we try to get in their way. If and when Poland decides to leave EU orbit, a friendly Russian embrace will be waiting.

Ukraine death toll have been much higher over the past 2 weeks than the 100-200 dead a day reported earlier. Zydensky's adviser says its closer to 1,000 a day.

axios.com/2022/06/15/ukraine-1000-casualties-day-donbas-arakhamia

Looks like several leaders of EU countries are in Ukraine - Italy, France, Germany and Romania. Probably to give a few token systems, no where near the sugar daddy shopping list Ukraine made and nowhere near enough to tip the balance in Ukraine's favor again, but hopefully they'll at least talk some sense into Zydensky.

apnews.com/article/eu-leaders-visit-ukraine-515075496ed9d6cfe3e4acde23b52f8e

While shocking images of such devastation have rallied Western support, officials in Ukraine have expressed fears that "war fatigue" could eventually erode that - particularly as rising prices and upcoming elections in the United States are increasingly dominating people's concerns.

The U.S. and its European allies have given billions of dollars in weaponry to Ukraine, and Germany and the U.S. recently announced new arms shipments. Such arms have been key to the country's surprising success in preventing the Russians from taking the capital, but officials in Kyiv have said much more will be needed if they are to drive Moscow's forces out.

Looks like now Russia is again attacking Kharkiv. Supreme Comedian-In-Chief Zydensky says they're experiencing "painful losses"... including 2 Americans - one former soldier and the second some random Vietnamese twink looking guy

I'm quite puzzled with this. In a matter of weeks, official UKR sources have revised their casualty estimates twice: first from zero to 60-100 daily KIA, and now 200 KIA - 1,000 total. Domestic UKR pundits think this is to do with the meeting at Rammstein, and the slowing trickle of weapons. That is, the idea is to raise the stakes again and force the West to act in providing more weapons. Questionable approach - might result in West deciding that an UKR victory is not in the books.

Of course, nobody has noticed how officially reported Ukrainian casualties, over time, have come to mirror what the Russian MoD has been reporting daily. Those lying, scumbag Russians and their propaganda.

It's a very good thing. So time for r*ssia to withdraw their unprovoked and illegal invasion.


Yes, the orcs have murdered many people's sons and brothers. Daughters and sisters too.


The 'utility' of any independent sovereign state to r*ssia is neither here nor there. Countries defend themselves against invasion by tyrannical state same of course r*ssia will lose.

I would argue that it matters, if you're spending billions in preparation for defense - as Poland is - and are making far-reaching foreign policy decisions based on this specific calculus (funneling nearly all you have in heavy weaponry to Ukraine).

Whether or not Russia truly wants to invade Poland, seems to me an important question. I would really hate if PiS and others just used this to win the next election, but nothing else resulted.

That depends on r*ssia's behaviour. So far it has invaded a sovereign state three times and carried out proven chemical weapons attacks.

Any and all states in Europe must therefore take great care about defence. Fortunately most are in NATO and more are joining.


It isn't about what r*ssia wants or doesn't want. It is about what they have been seen to do.

Fortunately they will lose.

First they said absolutely nothing, for months and months. They only started releasing figures quite recently. First it was 100-200 dead 500-600 injured a day and just recenly now it's 1,000 casualties - 200-500 dead, rest injured a day.

I think that the campaign turned on them so they're using these numbers to garner sympathy. I'm sure even during the first few weeks of the war they were losing a similar amount, at least 100-200 dead a day, 500-600 injured, but they obviously weren't going to advertise it because that would put a dent in the morale since they were doing quite well against the Russians in the beginning. The Russians were simply overconfident, way too cocky and thought it'd be another Georgia where they're in the capital within a week of fighting.

Even if you take the midpoint of 150 dead x 100+ days of war = 15,000 dead that roughly matches western estimates and not too far off from Russian ones.

Of course in every conflict each side underestimates it's losses and overestimates it's kills. That's just par for the course.


The west complains that UKR isn't forthcoming with information about casualties. That's been the situation till very recently and even now it's quite vague. Even when they lost Mariupol they weren't giving out numbers. Azov Regiment has all been but wiped out and if they're going by NATO unit sizes that's 1k-1.5k dead right there.

They're finally admitting that the scales have tipped, Russians finally got their **** together, and Ukraine is simply outmatched and outgunned and losing ground and troops everyday. Even the UKR are admitting this...

The west knows already that UKR isn't going to win this war in the sense that they're going to retake all the land they lost. That's not in the cards - both UKR and the west can forget about that. At best, the can hold onto what's left. Russia is going to keep taking more territory while Ukraine is down and awaiting for some token shipments.

UKR is crying that they're losing so many people and are losing more towns and cities to garner sympathy from the west. The west can't let UKR be totally conquered - it has to exist as a NATO buffer against Russia in some form or other. So the west is going to send some token aid to prevent that form happening. But they're not going to totally deplete their own stocks so that UKR can fight bloody battles for months and months just to regain some lost land back and forth. At this point, it's about preserving what's left and not having UKR totally lose it's sovereignty.

As one ancient Roman politician once said - Cui bono? Who benefits?

@Bobko
When the war is over, there is no way normal trade relations begin again until Ukraine is rebuilt. It will be years before Russia see's any western products. If western countries began trade again with Russia it would provoke civil uprisings and potential a civil war in the US. Simply not going to happen.

As for the other Putin coxuckers, the western leaders have promised to never stop supplying weapons until Russia is defeated. The US said today that now there is a path for Ukraine to not only take back the Donbas, but to take back Crimea, and Ukraine will not stop until its done. Get your lips comfortable on Putins privates because this will take a long time. Happy gulag MFers.

LOL no it wouldn't. No one cares...



Source? I don't recall anyone saying that they're going to keep providing weapons till Russia is defeated, and no one in the USA said that they're going to help Ukraine retake all the territory they lost.

Ukraine is finished. The best they can hope for is existence as a rump state with a fraction of the territory and economy which westerners will use as a NATO pawn and buffer zone against Russia. Hey, better for the ukrops to get nuked than us.

Ukrainian and Polish children are singing...

youtu.be/csbkv5WnI60

... Slavic children are singing together. All is well.

Considering that Russians (or just Novichok?) are justifying the Russian invasion on a "brotherly" country by supposed "threat" by NATO to Russia, I'd say it seems an important question whether NATO is really a threat to Russia or not. Wouldn't you really hate it if Putin and his propaganda machine used this just to keep his grip on power in Russia?

What if all this bloodshed, destruction, hate and all those billions spent for turning Russia into "encircled fortress" are all for nothing?


And NATO will not attack Russia - FULL STOP. We have no appetite for World War III. So why all this madness?


"Utility"? You're truly disgusting people.

I meant this in the sense of usefulness. That is why countries invade each other, at the end of the day - is it not? You make a certain calculation, that indicates that besides necessary losses - you will gain a definitive net benefit. In Ukraine's case, even a Russian middle schooler can solve this formula and see why we do what we do. With Poland this is not the case. There is much that suggests that owning Poland is more a liability than an asset.

That's a lie that Vladimir Vladimirovich himself has already busted, to the utmost confusion of his troll hordes. :) And Bobko, as is well remembered, was the only poster here who was honest enough about it, even before Putin blew his cover.

Why all the madness? For Peter-the-Great style imperial conquest. That's old news - try to keep up, Paulina. ;)


Not necessarily. Politics and waging wars is a dirty business and things like "utility" or even "profitability" have to be taken into account. That's exactly the reason why we are spending so much on defence - to make the cost of conquering Poland higher than possible profit.

EDIT:


Yes. You beat me to it.


Yes. Sometimes in life it pays off to be an annoying pain in the a*se. :)

It's very rare that countries indre anyone else nowadays.

Only the pariah state r*ssia who have invaded Ukraine three times in the past years, plus Georgia and Chechenya.


Which of course they haven't gained.

Good to see that more heavy weapons are heading Ukraine's way, ready for them to use to drive the orcs back to their own borders.

Scholz's visit to Kiev

EU prospect: yes,
new weapons: no

bild.de/politik/ausland/politik-ausland/scholz-besuch-in-kiew-eu-aussicht-ja-neue-waffen-nein-80422942.bild.html

At the press conference, the Chancellor announced NO new weapons . Instead, Scholz, French President Emmanuel Macron (44), Italy's Prime Minister Mario Draghi (74) and Romania's President Klaus Johannis (63) said: Ukraine should be given candidate status for EU membership. They wanted to ensure unanimity at the summit.

The Scholz announcement: "My colleagues and I came to Kiev today with a clear message: Ukraine belongs to the European family." Macron said after meeting Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyj (44): "All four" would be one support such candidate status for EU accession. ....

Hmmm.....I dunno.....what use is a russian occupied Ukraine in the EU??? 😕

...But: Selenskyj praised Scholz! Weapons would be delivered, including those requested. "Germany is helping us a lot here," he said. "Yes, I am convinced that the entire German people support Ukraine."...

Really! 🤨

Hello Pot - my name is Kettle!

Done washing the blood of Iraqis, Afghans and Syrians from your hands? Suffering from selective amnesia regarding the work of your little lapdog, Israel? Tired of the money BAE makes, selling Saudis weapons that are used to kill Yemeni children? You've accepted that what was done in Libya was ill-conceived but in the end not a big deal?

It's you that is warmongering scum. We've never gone anywhere where we were not before. We don't go, halfway across the world, to kill hundreds of thousands of people, and then leave when we become bored with it. I see you worrying a lot whether we will own the destruction we created in Ukraine - don't worry, we always do, unlike you vampires.