Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 2

No feat when you are so huge! :)

Look at little Germany with our gazillion neighbours....one wrong step and it's called an invasion...heh:)

It is rather unlikely that the entire Ukraine will be occupied. Ukraine will defend her independence but, as Finland after the Winter War, will have to make some territorial concessions. Smaller Ukraine, after a peace/border treaty, will be accepted into the EU and thrive. Poland also had to accept loss of territory larger than the entire Czech Republic after WW2 (even after adding Ziemie Odzyskane in the West) but in the end it turned out for the better.

Yes, the German help to Ukraine is a bit of a joke but maybe Scholz is right - maybe it is better to induce Ukrainians to peace talks and then - after the war is over - help them as much as possible in the EU, than keep sending them weapons, give them hope of regaining all their land, and prolong this war indefinitely.

That would requiring a Putin stopping without need, setting a limit by himself for Russia....history says otherwise about successful warmongering dictators....*shrugs*

And usually very much not wanted back.... how do you not get that? Russian social structures and cultural norms are not appealing to anyone except Russians...


See my message #14,097 on Peter Zeihan's analysis

That's why his success has to be...

a) limited
b) very costly

... if we can ensure that, then there's hope.

Both to a better end and neither with he intention of conquering the country, massacring its citizens, deporting people by the thousand and operating "filtration camps".

As r*ssia is doing or trying to do right nie in Ukraine.

Better try harder if you want to twist the truth, orc scum.


Yes, Syria where r*ssia helped the dictator launch a chemical weapons attack on civilians.

The Western democracies are by and large a force for good. r"ssia is simply destructive, greedy and murderous.

Nobody swallows your pathetic little attempts to twist the truth about Yemen, Syria, Libya, KSA, or anywhere else. And the malign hand of r*ssia is always involved somehow in those conflicts.

Get your orcs out of Ukraine. Their stinking corpses are piling up nicely for you to collect.

The sanctions could come back into play then, better the ending of them...*nods*

@BB

Exactly. Russia will be contained for her own good. Who knows, maybe eventually there will be a serious power shift in Russia? Maybe one day they will not see themselves as "too great" to join all the small weaklings in the EU? Stranger things happened in history. :)

They'll do as much as they can get away with. One of many reasons they must be stopped this time.

*GASP*

How can you say this? Please join Gregy and Dirk in the "traitor box" - immediately! Before you infect other good Poles with your nonsense.

Scholz is a clever old puppy. He knows well how the West works, specifically America. Running ahead of the American train (as some kamikazes like Poland have been doing), has shown itself over and over to be an imprudent policy. Americans are fickle, and forgetful. It's best to make sure first that they are serious, before really beginning to plan your own actions in support. The alternative, often, is to be left hanging when America decides to cut losses and move on to the next crisis.

I would be grateful if you didn't mention me and them in the same sentence. One is a traitor who wants to watch his motherland fight off invasion with popcorn in his hand and the other a nazi anti-semite. Thank you.

Tell ya what, Bobko - how about that for a hypothetical scenario:

1. Ukraine gives up Donbass and some other "oppressed" lands in the east/south (where people are not allowed to read Pushkin, banderists chase them on the streets etc. etc.); that makes peace viable, Russia is not "humiliated" and Putin's face is "saved".

2. After the peace and border treaty, Ukraine is accepted in the EU.

3. Sanctions against Russia can then be lifted (unless they really make you stronger, as some people claim, so we can leave them as they are - up to you).

4. To make Russia safer, a deal will also be made regarding Królewiec. It is Russian territory completely surrounded by "hostile" countries, so a constant source of threat. Russia can be relieved of this burden. Details as to when and how can be agreed.

5. When Vladimir Vladimirovich finally goes "в рай" and his team is replaced with someone more sensible than the current Peter the Great Fan Club, we can start negotiations regarding Russia in the EU and NATO, reducing future chances of war between us to zero.

6. Europe from Lisbon to Vladivostok is established as one of the greatest (if not the greatest) world superpowers.

7. Last but not the least, we can finally meet for a glass of something stronger and discuss literature to our hearts' content. :)

How about that for a plan?

@Dirk diggler
Do your own research. Not even wasting my time with you. Dont you have a blunt to smoke or something?

@Bobko
You lose all credibility when you try to use past US wars as comparison. Iran taking the US embassy hostage ring a bell? 911 maybe? Give it up. Russia has never experienced those things and been forced to retaliate and hunt down the perpetrators. Russia is simply an imperialist aggressor. Its ok. We all accept that is how Russia does business. Now the world can react to how Russia acts. Its simple. No one cares about the justifications when Russia was not attacked first. It is the first guy who attacks unprovoked who gets the blame. Intrinsic threats are for weak minded people because a real threat doesnt and never has existed. The only threat made and acted upon was Russia attacking a nation it guaranteed security for.

1) This is acceptable, if not entirely satisfactory.

2) This could be interesting. A Ukrainian torpedo into the heart of the EU. Worth discussing.

3) Yes, please do lift sanctions. They are not killing us, but as a business person I cannot pretend they do not make life harder. No lifting of sanctions, means no incentive for us to talk to you.

4) With this point you nearly destroy the entire agreement. There are specific reasons why Stalin wanted Eastern Prussia, and most of them have to do with retaining the ability to rapidly shut the Suwalki Gap. Kaliningrad must stay.

5) Joining EU and NATO would probably involve changing the decision making mechanisms to one that relies on a majority rather than unanimity. It would turn into a mini UN Security Council with Germany, Russia, France, and Italy bulldozing everyone else. For this reason, I don't think a country like Lithuania would give Russian accession approval even in 10,000 years. At the same time, it would be beneath Russia to go begging a Lithuania to accept us. Better to stay in our proud isolation. What could be interesting, however, is liquidating NATO in favor of a European-only defense club, and keeping the EU for those that want to join. We don't want to be in any organization that contains the Brits or Americans.

6) Yes, a thousand times yes. Would be absolutely wundebar. For us, a big upside of this would be the ability to go and tell China everything we think about them to their face.

7) I would like that very much.

@Bobko

These peace talks are easier than I expected :) So, points 1-3, 6 and 7 are agreed. I, somewhat grudgingly, accept point 4, so that leaves us with only point 5, which is also entirely negotiable.


Ha, ha - I always suspected that you might have Polish ancestors but now I'm sure. :D

@GefreiterKania

Keep in mind, I'm the good cop Russian Bot. Velund may not like point 1 at all, and the mere mention of point 4 would lead to the Velund delegation leaving the talks early. Russia is after all, a democratic state - and we must take the opinion of each citizen into consideration. So the ease of our negotiations could easily be an illusion.

Nobody elected you to those talk, just get nukes and nuke them!


Good idea. Will you bugger off from Ukrianie then? If not cut the crap!


LOL!

I second that.

r*ssia has shown cannot be trusted

Therefore it must be defeated.

@Bobko
Trade with Russia will not go back to pre invasion levels until Putin is dead and Ukraine rebuilt. Simply not going to happen. As for retards saying people in the US do not care, then why is he bitching about how much money Ukraine is getting from the US along with millions of others. Think the US is going to just pump this much money into something without getting a return? Come one, that's not the American way. Of course you get the good with the bad in the USA.

Russia though, is not going to get the west back. No negotiation is going to make that happen until Ukraine is whole. And Ukraine can not make a deal that ties anyone other than themselves into anything binding with Russia. You seem like an intelligent guy, don't even pretend to believe sanctions will be lifted in any negotiation. Think the US isn't going to get their moneys worth? Or the UK? France, Germany and Italy are not going to convince anyone of anything. Poland and other countries needing the US are not going to get behind anything other than a hard line. Anyone thinking otherwise needs an intervention.

@PolAmKrakow

So you say USA, 10.000 km or so away from the region will have control and Russia won`t? Is that it?

No. Listen. Things will continue to aggravate. One day you will wake up and you will hear that EU, NATO and USA pushed too hard and that few Russia`s nukes fell onto something.

You would then learn where led those USA investments. Think you would want more?

And China. We din`t even mention China.


Sound really funny when one Anglo say so.

If anything it's the opposite:

Meanwhile, Ukraine's hopes of rolling Russia back to pre-invasion borders do not seem to be shared by its Western allies.

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg appeared to suggest this past week that Ukraine will have to accept a loss of sovereignty or territory in return for peace, during a press conference in Finland.

"The question is, what price are you willing to pay for peace? How much territory, how much independence, how much sovereignty, how much freedom, how much democracy, are you willing to sacrifice for peace?" Stoltenberg said, sitting beside Finnish President Sauli Niinistö, on June 13.

His comments appeared to echo sentiments expressed by Henry Kissinger at the Davos World Economic Forum in May, that Ukraine needs to give up territory to achieve peace.


Especially now... that's why there's a certain extent to which the west is going to help Ukraine when there's worldwide stagnation, especially in the US. The fed hike didn't help UKR's cause either.

Fact is, whether it's people, government, or company's, they're going to lower their discretionary spending when times are rough.

Will Ukraine get support from the west? Sure. Question is how much, when will they get it (equipment is slowly trickling in from the promises made months ago), and will it make a significant difference?

I do think that with enough equipment Ukraine can prevent more territory from being captured, but I highly doubt they're going to retake much of what they already lost. They can pretty much forget about Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk though. Just like Kiev put up a fierce resistance against Russia at the beginning, so would those cities if the UFA entered.

t.me/RVvoenkor/16289

This crazy Vietnamese so many years in the USA army, had no combat experience until Ukraine.
Now he has experienced it all in a matter of a few days.

twitter.com/AZmilitary1/status/1537515860344070147

‼️The State Department announced the disappearance of a third American in Ukraine

He went to Ukraine to fight against Russia and disappeared a few weeks ago.‼️

@StateDeptSpox
Russia is not Iraq,you are learning that the hard way‼️

@Dirk diggler

Long post, mainly.the usual BS we.expect from you Adrian.

Russia will not.gain much territory over what they had before.If any at all.
The cost?
Thousands of dead Russians, 53 major leaders and counting, dead,tons of military gear lost or destroyed and not being replaced.....battalions that shoild have 800 men down to.30!

Russia has already lost this war.
Get over it.

Biden just age away another Billion Dollars of our tax money to Ukraine. Is the EU going to match this amount to hep your neighbors???


What a fool. I bet he regrets it now.

youtu.be/fR6v1uuuC_4

Ukraine War: Russia makes advances in city of Severodonetsk

Clutching at straws again!I

When Russia lose this war, and they.will,
You will disappear from.this forum......

How is the "counter-offensive" on Kherson progressing?

The only offensive I see there is against Ukrainian banks, textbooks, currency, flags, language, etc...

And Mariupol hasn't even fallen yet, are you still waiting for the "counter-offensive" Milo?

t.me/HersonVestnik/5181

In the past 24 hours, they have 90 dead near Kherson. Here they were just about to take it, only they're not.

@Crnogorac3

Clutching at pathetic straws again.
Your heroes are losing this war.
Try to comprehend that.

t.me/boris_rozhin/53804

A few months ago, the Canadian company Kinross, which is engaged in gold mining, hoped to sell operations in Russia at a big discount for 680 million dollars, and sold today for 340 million. The Russian government has reportedly banned Russian companies from paying more than 340. 😁

For what ?
Russia has already got what they went after.


A true democracy.

i.ibb.co/6Rqc9tG/FVRL2yka-IAANWo-B.jpg