Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 2

@Velund
And Poland will live without Russian respect easily as well. Co-existing means non aggression. Until Putin is gone and another democratically elected leader who is not aggressive toward Poland, the EU and USA, Russia will never be respected or treated as an equal. You bring this upon yourselves time after time.

Equal? I do not think that Russia will agree to lower itself to the same level as Poland, no matter how much its masters would like it. It cannot be said that your masters have not tried to break it to Poland-like pieces in 90's, though.

Guaranteed non-aggression is possible under conditions of treatiability and predictability. Poland is unpredictable and incapable of fulfilling treaties, because apart from its own periodically changing populists, it also has political masters playing their own games. These games can bring Poland into the category of expendable material easily, and very soon. Once Ukraine will be depleted.

But the request is a good one, a strong one. Fear us and our master to be treated as equal lapdogs, or we will bite you. ;)

Of course Russia will live without polish respect. In the toilet bowl where in belongs, the question is floating with sh*t or just in urine?


Keep your german influenced Gutmenschen vibes to yourself. Did you micro-dose some acid today? ;)

@amiga500
Patchwork family with one mother (Slavia) and two fathers, the one was mongoloid and the other was from Europe.🙂

@Velund
This is what you refuse to grasp. Poles, regardless of party affiliation, are no longer afraid of Russia. No one is. Ukraine isn't either and they are fighting you with surprising results. Your military is inferior to the wests, utterly and completely.

Guaranteed non aggression? You mean like Ukraine was given?

No one is afraid of Russia any more. Yes, nuclear war would kill the masses, but some would survive on both sides. So be it. Living in fear of nuclear war in the 70's through 90's made a lot of people numb to it in todays world. Russia over estimates itself, it is one of its many weakness's.

Boris Johnson said it is critical to maintain visible support for Ukraine, even as "Ukraine fatigue is setting in."
This doesn't sound good.
Also, in a major development amid the ongoing war, China has "secretly" delivered a set of sophisticated Chinese anti-aircraft systems to Serbia this weekend.
At least six Chinese Air Force Y-20 transport planes landed at Belgrade's civilian airport yesterday.
As per the military experts, these transport planes reportedly carry HQ-22 surface-to-air missile systems.
The delivery of the lethal weapons at this crucial period raised eyebrows over the intention of the Serbian military.
This war is far from being over if China can trade Russia such sophisticated weaponry for oil and gas.
As long as the major powers on both sides are profiting from this war, I can't see it ending anytime soon.
It is just sad that Ukraine is being used as the chess board.

What Ukraine dobri brate from Mars? What Ukraine?

What they told you on Mars differ from reality. What Ukraine? That with two Serbian historical states or regions incorporated in itself? Or the Ruthenian Ukraine? Or maybe that Ukraine that was proud subject of the Russian Empire? Or AH Empire? Or of Poland? Or of Third Reich?

Ah, you mean the one created by communists and now armed with garbage armament of complete NATO and more, while mentally brainwashed?

Even then the Russia is still coming. And it is good Russia to prevail. You don`t think so?

Dobri brate from Mars, what would Poland if Russia collapse? Finally become free in global world led in prosperity by biggest idiots of this world? Can you even imagine the moment Russia collapse? You think Pope, Germany, France and Britain would give those resources to Poland? Funny idea, really. No, those friends of Poland would first destroy Poland, to sate their deep frustrations, and then grab all what was Russia for themselves.

Real politics for you if you have at least hint of Polish blood is that Russia exist and hold balance of power so Poland and Serbia can even dream of our own mutual projects. NATO now threatened Russia and we have situation. If we can`t help, let us, at least, stop pretending we are from Mars.

No. We play the game. On Mars they told you its about membership. Here in the region we know its about annexation. So we play game. Delay the deal with kurw* as longer as possible, hoping we avoid that dirty thing.

@Iron

Yes, I agree PiS needs to go, but not necessarily for the reasons that you mentioned (not all of them anyway).


Bobko confirmed that this is happening, and you must have heard of Rod Dreher and his books (The Benedict Option, Live not by Lies) - he is an Orthodox convert himself and his books have huge influence in certain American circles (mainly a part of right wing conservatives).


*yaaaaaawn*


Collapse? No, not necessarily. But be divided into smaller, more peaceful countries. It worked with Germany after WW2 - they were aggressive and militaristic and look at them now. Of course, Russia is larger, so it will have to be more than two countries like in case of East Germany and West Germany. We would need at least four countries (Muscovy, Siberian Republic, Greater Mongolia and Upper China), none of which would be allowed to possess nuclear weapons - their nukes would be passed under Polish control for the reasons of our historical moral superiority (we never commited such crimes and needless conquests like Germany, Britain, France or other colonial powers). The countries would be peaceful and rather prosperous (taking into account their natural resources) - finally bringing their people out of post-Soviet misery. 1% of oligarchs, corrupt politicians and their prostitutes would be unhappy, but 99% of Russian people would be very happy. The four countries could then be accepted into the EU, creating a united Europe from Lisbon to Vladivostok - the greatest superpower in the world.

What is the alternative? PiS was right all along about views on russia, energy independence, teritorial defence and building the canal. You want the german bootlickers back in power?

@amiga500
I will agree with you on that. The economy is a disaster, tax system is a disaster, ZUS is a cluster F beyond imagination, and entitlements are not being paid for. Meanwhile the United Right group is going to PiS away the EU recovery money because they wont just make a couple of judicial changes. The idealistic approach of some will force the young people of Poland into an equally bad economic system as the US has right now. Cant pay for Social Security in a few years, and in Poland it will arrive quicker and with more havoc than in the US because there is no real personal wealth here among the older generation to survive things.

That said, Russia is an even bigger disaster, and the idea of splitting it up into 4 countries was brilliant. Those four countries could experience incredible economic growth with all their resources and all citizens would benefit, not just the few. But of course Russians love to be miserable, so we have that fighting against progress.

All these things are true, 2 and 3 have been true since time began, and no goverment has ever changed that, or will in the next election cycle. as for 1 that's a global phenomenon and has only a minor PiS influence. I note unemployment is low and growth is high compared to others. Regardless we are going off topic and we will save the political debates (and wagers) closer to the election ;)

You are right. Realistically, there isn't any. PO is totally disgraced and people have good enough memory not to vote for them again; Hołownia still refuses to reveal the sources of his funding so it would be dangerous to entrust political power to such person; Lewica are a joke and конфедерация would push us right into Russia's jaws.

The only sensible party seems to be the peasants' party - PSL. They are like Polish peasants: quite conservative, resilient and down to earth. Unfortunately, they accepted the role of a smaller and less important coalition partner of PO, so with Tusk's latest ravings about legal abortion on demand up to 3rd month and LGBT "rights", they will lose a lot of votes in the countryside.

No alternative really, and that's what worries me.

PiS might have been right about energy independence.

They were wrong anout running up a massive deficit, giving away money instead of investing it, destroying the legal system and filling up the big businesses with their cronies.

Just like every western country thanks to covid.


Just like every western country thanks to covid


the polish legal system was already corrupt and dysfunctional before PiS since time immorial, and at least they tried to fix it. (in their hamfisted way thanks to Zobrio), at least they tried to do something unlike their predecessors who did NOTHING.

Please stick to the topic of the thread

Polish control? Hm, speaking hypothetically, I`m curious which Polish politician would be forced to sacrifice himself by having two penises or two vaginas in order to become acceptable to western European and USA rulers of this world that would then pass nukes to Poland.

After all how do you imagine preventing papacy from controlling nukes via Poland?

Just imagine those crusade wars.

You want that for the world?

Germans have a new toy...

youtu.be/fTBA5tQsDbE

... looks rather impressive! :) I wonder if Ukraine will be getting any of these.

This one is about Bundeswehr's investment plan - impressive as well...

youtu.be/8AVmBYj0NcM

I can imagine all those future wars. Very exciting.

@GefreiterKania
I read about this new Panther the other day. Very impressive! NATO technology going off the charts. New NATO agreement to develop new helicopters was signed three days ago as well. This agreement to go through 2035. Looking long term no one is expecting the Russian threat to go away any time soon, that is obvioous. Ukraine getting these? Not a chance.

Heeey....I posted about that baby here first.....love it! :)


The Panther surely not.....but that raises their chances to get some older Leopards....they still have some big teeths and mighty sharp claws!

Sorry, BB, must have missed it. I sometimes take breaks from PF to regain some sanity. ;)

....totally understood! *nods*

Russia has a plan for Ukraine

theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/06/russia-ukraine-putin-chechnya/661321/

Flatten cities... Mariupol, Severodonetsk - check.
Install satraps... marionettes in Donetsk and Luhansk - check.
Rule by fear... Bucha, Irpin, Borodyanka - check.

You wish :) Cojestdocholery is basically never right about me :)))


I didn't mean Poland :))) I was talking about the West.


I think it's pretty easy to explain. Such people don't really care about Christian values, religion, Jesus' teachings. They simply want to preserve conservative society. And to them Putin and his Russia look like defenders of this social conservatism, as opposed to the West. I think their understanding of Christianity is very shallow - they mistake "Christian values" with social conservatism (a woman in the kitchen, where the true Russian Velund would like to see me :), no gay parades - stuff like that).

You are spot on Paulina!

Russia doesn't represent conservatives and nationalism. Russia represents Russia and Russian imperialism.
If one thinks that Putin is some keeper of Christian conservative values - one is very mistaken. He's an atheist and uses conservative values rhetoric as long as it suits him. I understand I'm not gonna convince pootinas. But mark my words, something tells me you are in for a surprise.

Correct.


Correct.


Correct

But there are some very stupid Americans on this forum that believe all that nonsense.And is why, in varying degrees, they support him.

I was completely unaware of it. After reading your post I went looking for some data. I read some articles saying what you said. I couldn't find any hard data, though. It's interesting. It makes sense from a purely Christian point-of-view, evangelical christianity suffers from sacramental poverty.

Dreher went through the Christian garden: Methodist, Catholic, now Orthdox. Benedict Option sold well. It seems like he wants to build walls around Chrisitian communities. I wonder if he falls for the Russia as Savior of traditional values trope?

Great post!

A searingly personal and honest article in Wapo about divided loyalties in Sloviansk.

It's so heartbreaking that some Civs are either too old, infirm, poor or fearful to leave the war zone.

'But this smashed apartment building illustrates the complicated choices faced by people in a place with deep historical, cultural and family bonds to both Ukraine and Russia. Those who left ran in opposite directions: some south or east toward Russian-held separatist territories, others west toward safer areas of Ukraine.'

Those who remain feel the same magnetic pushes and pulls.'

washingtonpost.com/world/2022/06/18/ukraine-slovyansk-divided-loyalties-russia/