Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 2

Actual intelligence. Ours not yours. Probably Poland's and Ukraine's too.

About the "all out war" that people are speculating about online, there are a few key questions.

1) When young men, especially conscripts, come back in body bags or with stories of what is really happening, is this more likely to create untenable discontent within russia or to create a sort of siege mentality against the West?

2) Is martial law and the escalating cost of Putler's venture likely to increase the effect of sanctions?

3) Does it appear that Putler is now being dragged by the very cart that he himself set in motion? Might he become merely a front man for a cartel of even more ruthless and dangerous generals, perhaps heedless of nuclear annihilation?

4) Will China try to bail out russia in return for effectively colonising it or will China quietly disown a losing nation in favour of prospering by contact with the West?

5) Would such a change of direction now virtually condemn Ukraine to extinction or, as with Vietnam, would the increased size and strength of the invaders make little difference?

The media back home are reporting now that Putler's army is so ****** that he's having to merge deleted military units, thereby reducing their effectiveness further. bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61252785

The one that found WMDs in Iraq?

WMDs like the chemical weapons that he used to kill a whole town. We are however discussing russia, Ukraine and Poland.

Worth mentioning that since russia started to make war against Ukraine, the intelligence that has been publicised has so far been spot on.

You and others are not discussing Russia when you have foam coming out of your mouths and your eyeballs are red.

Somehow, for some strange reason, all intelligence and data cited on PF reflect badly on Russia and well on Ukraine.

I haven't read one post here mentioning atrocities by Ukis before Russia's attack. Like from 2008 till 2021...Not a single one. Real angels.

In the last 24 hours, russia have lost: 200 more troops, 22 tanks, 27 APVs, 3 UAVs and 1 plane.

Here's a summary of the total before today's figures are added.

• 
  1A244AB4BD43459DA.jpeg
  

@Novichok
Because the Ukraine people weren't killing civilians on purpose. No criminal activity when you are defending your own property. Once again, wtf are you dumb a$$es going to do when Putin officially loses this war? Who you going to masturbate to then? Lucky Luka in Belarus?

As for prior wars the US engaged in? I believe Bin Laden is dead, every other leader of that little group has been killed and they are completely ineffective now. Saddam is dead, and all the other little $hi* stirrers are dead too. Not bad. Yes, they stayed too long, and were given terrible rules to fight under, but that's life. Dead terrorists are still dead terrorists. Kind of like dead Russians are still dead Russians.

I wonder where all the Russians went who used to be here in Poland? They just disappeared. There used to be a bunch. Tri cities area doesn't have any on the streets according to friends, and there sure aren't any left in Krakow. Imagine how they will now be treated for the next 40 years after the war ends. It is going to be a long time before Russia recovers in any measurable way, and thats exactly how it should be. Happy gulag biatches.

OK. I got it. From 2008 to 2021, not a single Russian-speaking civilian was killed in Donbaas and Lugansk by the artillery or any other device operated under the orders of the Ukrainian government. Thanks.

@Novichok
Reading comprehension you dumb F. "weren't killing civilians on purpose" Clear and easy to understand. And if some died, then Putin probably shouldn't have sent in his little terrorists first. You really are an idiot.

Hey, you hyphenated a-hole, when a gun sends a bullet into a city where civilians congregate and die as a result of that bullet being fired deliberately and with premeditation, it's on "purpose", you dumb A.

To meet the on-purpose condition, you don't have to tie them up and stand them against the wall. Dresden, H, and N were on purpose since there were no known military targets there. Just because the pilots didn't see their eyeballs or hair in flames didn't make them by accident.

So, back to Ukraine...From 2008 to 2021, did the Uki government shell Donbas and Lugansk to kill Ukrainian citizens?

You're either a liar, or stupid, or both - but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and suggest that perhaps it's genuinely your age, if you really are 80ish. Perhaps you're forgetful - though I must qualify that with saying I know you to be a liar because you've proved it many times.

Several weeks ago I sent you links to HRW and Amnesty Interantional reports (they have detailed downloadable, PDF annual reports for each country, including Ukraine and Russia) where you can read to your heart's content about what's been going on in the Donbas region. I even quoted from them because I know that you are lazy and pretend interest subjects in order to making obnoxious statements. You're like a 'special edition' Chatty Cathy doll who's been programmed to utter 'moron' 'a-hole' 'woke' etc when a string in your chest is pulled.

Unfortunately those reports contain a balanced account of the facts, rather than the lies, fake news and melodrama which you prefer.

I don't read links. If you want to say something, say it. I can't debate a link.
Besides, this forum is just an extension of the many wars out there, not an educational seminar. Thus, truth and honesty are not required.

You do. But when they contain information that shows you to be mistaken or proves you a liar, you pretend you haven't.

And like I said, I also quoted directly in the text of my posts.

I contemplated. A lot of.

God for sure have better plans for humanity then it could be perspective of a return to a stone age full of radioactive dust, where remaining humans lurk like zombies in the caverns. God for sure won`t let people like Biden, Boris, Olaf, Macron, Francis or Cicciolina decide for all of us. God, in His mercy must have better plans for us. We should colonize space in rockets and not thrown into the sky with some blast of the rocket.

Let us pray.

That's true.

I use those that support my position and ignore those that don't. Just like everybody else on the globe. Plus hypocrisy as proof of sanity.

Shocking...isn't it...

I do have to admit that you passed my RT test.

I don't. I'm quite ok with the truth. I don't think that anybody here has ever suggested that Ukraine as a nation is lily white - they are a politically unstable, post-communist country struggling to reform, with many internal conflicts. But they don't deserve to be invaded by Russia, who don't give a flying fiddlers about the population of Crimea.

You can't adopt a position on something when you don't have the facts. And you don't have them. So here are some facts for you. Read them (oh, I forgot, you're too lazy and not really interested). You might try it though. Imagine what it would feel like to actually really KNOW something for once in your life, instead of just pretending to know - or indeed pretending not to know which you also like to do.

Both the Ukrainian government authorities and Russia-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine have held civilians in prolonged, arbitrary detention, without any contact with the outside world, including with their lawyers or families. In some cases, the detentions constituted enforced disappearances, meaning that the authorities in question refused to acknowledge the detention of the person or refused to provide any information on their whereabouts or fate. Most of those detained suffered torture or other forms of ill-treatment. Several were denied needed medical attention for the injuries they sustained in detention.

Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch investigated in detail nine cases of arbitrary, prolonged detention of civilians by the Ukrainian authorities in informal detention sites and nine cases of arbitrary, prolonged detention of civilians by Russia-backed separatists. Their report details cases that took place mostly in 2015 and the first half of 2016.

It's available all forty pages of it for you to read in PDF form but fear not, I won't send you the link.


But it's not. Stop the silly analogies and hypotheses and start reading and acknowledging the facts about the real world.

So, as Novichok, is not a keen reader, just a big talker, let's put some more facts here for him.

In August 2020, Amnesty International said:

"Both sides of the armed conflict in eastern Ukraine must take steps to address heinous human rights violations committed in the territories under their control. Ukrainians deserve nothing less than full justice for these abuses, which means truth and reparation for the victims, and prosecution in fair trial proceedings for those suspected of criminal responsibility."

"Whilethe former inmates of the Ukrainian Security Service's (SBU) secret prisonsare still awaiting truth, justice and reparation, the agency continues to deny well-established facts and blames 'Russian propaganda' for allegations it chooses not to face," said Marie Struthers, Amnesty International's Eastern Europe and Central Asia Regional Office Director.

on the other hand

"In territories under control of Russian-backed armed groups, the situation has deteriorated. Human rights violations and crimes under international law described four years ago in the report You Don't Exist, continue unabated in the so-called Donetsk and Luhansk "People's Republics". The de facto authorities there continue to unlawfully deprive civilians of their liberty while concealing their fate and whereabouts for weeks, sometimes months, and subject them to physical violence and psychological abuse."

Now you see Novi, while you would like to believe that Amnesty are a bunch of woke, lefty liberals, they are mature and clear sighted enough to examine the situation in Ukraine in a balanced manner and uncover the facts- because that's how conflicts are resolved and justice is done, not that it can ever entirely be done. But we can try, Novi, we can try.

Just to wrap things up for the moment, by December 2016, the Ukrainian SBU had released all prisoners held in unlawful detention according to Amnesty International but the Russian-backed authorities have continued to to "arrest" civilians and detain them without disclosing their fate or whereabouts for weeks, which amounts to enforced disappearance, and also continues to subject them to torture and other ill-treatment, without providing them recourse to justice or legal remedies.

Because Russia haters don't like them, but anti-Russia analogies are good? Those are perfect analogies in response to the idiotic argument that Ukraine didn't attack Russia. Israel did just that in 1967 or it would be over.


This sentence alone reeks. They added "Russia-backed" to show equivalency between the Ukrainian Government and its violations of civil rights and the criminal civilians who committed ordinary crimes like kidnapping.

And that "separatists" bs. Why not freedom fighters like in Kosovo? Those "separatists" were civilians and could not "detain". Only police can "detain". Another attempt to put = sign between illegal acts by the Uki government and those Russia-backed "separatists" committing crimes.

Did you or anyone here call the 2014 "revolution" a US-backed illegal and undemocratic takeover? That's exactly what is was.

It took you a long time to come up with that response and it's still as as water.

I understand very well what happened in Ukraine in 2014, as does anyone with an ounce of political or historical savvy.

And to get back to the present conflict, nothing in this world or beyond, justifies or excuses the scale of aggression and the fury visited upon Ukraine and its people by Russia.

@Novichok
Of course you dont read links, and then you complain that others dont read links and watch the opposition videos. You really are a moron.

So once again, I ask, wtf will you retarded Putin supporters do when he is dead, or has officially lost the whole war. Not just nearly every major battle, but the whole war. Because by every account Putin and Russia are getting their a$$es kicked in every way. Happy gulag biatches.

"While the international community is calling for the end to hostilities, the United States keeps adding fuel to the fire and shows readiness to fight until the last Ukrainian." - Zhao Lijian, Foreign Ministry spokesman for China

youtu.be/2FahgidX1S8

it will happen, and they'll whine for a bit then look for the next way of making people laugh at them by trying to offend.

Everything in that sentence is wrong. So very, very wrong.


A Russia and China shill.... what is wrong with you that you love dictators so much?

True.

I just can't understand why the Putin ar@e lickers.are still here!


He is a neo nazi, that will soon have to stfu.

My advice to you: Never try to make an elementary school debating team. They will not take you. Even 10-year-old kids would do better or be quiet.


Probably for the same reason why the NATO and Zhole a$$ lickers are foaming here with hate that defies reason. In all fairness to you and me, we have opposing views because of our experience with the USSR. To me, the USSR liberated Poland and nobody in my family suffered any persecution by them or their Polish collaborators. The only personal experience I had was having fun in Palac Kultury and learning Russian as a mandatory foreign language in high school.


That was the stupidest response to his post. Instead of addressing the meat of it:


...you picked up on who made this statement - as if China could not be ever right. Even Stalin was right once in a while. Just ask Roosevelt or Churchill.

You should be embarrassed for resorting to such cheap debating methods. Including that ad hominem, loaded, and rhetorical question.

BTW, both C3 and China are right. The US is doing everything it can to expand that war and nothing to wind it down. Where are any attempts to negotiate? The US knows damn well that Russia will not leave D, L, or C - especially not after all the deaths you and others here are so gleeful about.

Zero chance of that so, from now on, the only unknown is how many will die on both sides.

Decided to look if local forum serpents are alive and well - and see that creeks of venom mixed with russophobic sh*t soon will make some typical polish poisonous swamp. ;) I marvel at Rich's stoicism. He's enduring this stench far better than I could.


Let's add some clear signal to all that propaganda noise you enjoy here.

But now for the good stuff. The generosity of the American taxpayer knows no bounds. The administration has already handed over a third of the Stingers and Javelins stockpile to the Ukraine Charitable Foundation, which provides recreational shooting for AFU recruits and also generously shares its toys with the DNR/LNR brotherhood. But apparently the holiday will not last long...

In testimony given before the Senate Armed Services Committee, the Department of Defense's top acquisition official, Ellen Lord, explained the situation to lawmakers. The Pentagon won't be able to replace Stinger anti-aircraft missiles "within the next couple of years," as production lines for the Cold War-era missile have been shut down. She added that some simpler components for Stinger missile production could be hard to source.

Lord added that "we are probably five years" away from replenishing the stock of Javelins, even though the Javelin production line has not closed.

nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/supply-crisis-us-javelin-and-stinger-stocks-rapidly-dwindle-202121

Just be sure that Russians is still in phase of "draining" highly trained AFU troops, and every new morning there is more and more fresh recruits in trenches... Expect to see some real fun soon.

Now about possible martial law in Russia. I suspect that it will not come in nearest future. The remains of T-64B* line of main battle tanks, I was trained for, is still mothballed at storage bases and nobody is looking to send me any order to come for additional instructions concerning possible military service. A friend of mine volunteered to sign short term military contract and now working in a field repair unit with trophy T64BV's taken from AFU (to help DNR militias to restore this tanks to somewhat operational condition - all trophies that is not currently used by RA as a regular ammo is handed to militias now). He told me why there is so many talks between ukrainian military about using T64 tanks as stationary artillery units.... 5TDF/6TD diesel engines, used in this tanks, is a technical marvel in terms to power to volume and weight ratio... But this come at a price. There is only 250 motor-hours after newly installed motor should go back to Malyshev factory in Kharkov (precisely "Kalibr"ated recently) for capital refurbishment. Most engines in ukrainian tanks require immediate replacement. And there is no stock anymore.

No empty shelves in supermarkets here... Prices somewhat rise, but not critical. So, we are looking forward for new gifts from US/EU taxpayers and let's show go on....

Reserve officer Velund is probably shivering in a tank somewhere, eating boot polish and hoping the turret doesn't blow up before he can get home with his stolen microwave

I appreciate your comment and I am glad you are back.


If that is not high treason and a crime against the United States, nothing is. Disarming a country for the benefit of another and without vital interest is treason, not my posts, a-holes.


Eggs used to be here 1.20 per dozen. Now close to 4 bucks. In my books, that's "critical".


Poles are already known to be illogical idiots. Don't accelerate the process.