Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 2

@jon357, I'd like to add that pope's words about NATO are as if literally taken out of mouths of pro-Putin nationalist Russians that I've discussed with over the years. I don't only mean the criticism directed at NATO, but the rhetoric - the particular words that he used ("a dog barking at Russia"). Pope Francis since the start of the Russian invasion of Ukraine couldn't even bring himself to name the aggressor (Russia), but he clearly has no problem with talking in such a disparaging way about NATO. So, he's directly criticising and blaming NATO (and not mincing his words when doing that), but at the same time he won't directly criticise Russia? Don't you think it's simply... morally wrong?


Velund lives in Moscow and he's probably one of those whitey, European Russians. And he works in IT, I think, so he may be viewed as an asset, especially considering that IT brain drain that's happening in Russia. So, I doubt he's going to be sent as cannon fodder to Ukraine. At least not just yet ;)


Yes, I realise that his backround may play a role here.

Either way, he's yet another pope that turns out to be a disappointment. I'm honestly done with treating the Catholic Church as the moral authority already. That's it for me.


Poland is still to a great extent a Catholic country, so what the pope says is relevant to this thread.

I don't see any rhetoric there. More a sentence in an interview that was mostly about other things.


That's pretty well all of them since Paul XI...

Most interesting are some of today's developments including the Verkhovna Rada speech and the russians being beaten back further towards their borders. And the developments about Estonia supplying Israeli-made arms with their blessing. This could really change the course of the war.

More lies ...........What an ignorant lump you are. Quoting a source that describes an American as British! Learn the meaning of Briton. Paul Grey, from Texas, moved to Ukraine a year ago after serving in the U.S. Army and ran a gym in Kyiv.


How strange then that he's been talking to the press from a Ukrainian field hospital, having been injured in the leg on 27 April. His mother has spoken to him and says he's doing well.


My take on it is that he's having a spiritual dilemma. As Pope he's not supposed to involve himself directly in politics. At the same time he's supposed to condemn violence, which to be fair he has done repeatedly. If he says that it's right for the west to arm Ukraine, is he advocating more violence when what he's supposed to do is preach peace...... he has offered to visit Russia and talk to Putin. That shows he's supporting Ukraine, because he could just as easily have offered to try to talk to Zelensky and persuade him to give up the fight. But clearly he sees Russia as the aggressor.


That's good. Don't confuse the Church with the faith if you know what I mean. I've never really listened to 'the church'. I mean, I listen to their arguments, but I make my own judgements.

Perhaps the Marxist pope, surely the most contemptible of all popes, underestimated the ferociousness of seagulls. I hate to see pretty little doves killed in this manner, but it does teach us an important lesson: Screw peace! Peace is for faggots!

-- Wafflechaser

Note: this was in 2014.
abc.net.au/news/2014-01-27/peace-doves-released-during-pope27s-prayer-attacked/5220114

In what some are interpreting as an ominous sign for world peace, two white doves released from the Vatican have been attacked by two larger birds.

The doves were set free as a symbol of peace from a balcony overlooking St Peter's Square during Pope Francis' weekly Angelus prayers, held at noon every Sunday.

But moments later, a seagull and a black crow swooped down and attacked the doves, pecking at them repeatedly, as tens of thousands of people watched on.

The crow chased down the dove and grappled with it as the white bird tried to fly away.

@jon357, I see you're turning to your stubborn hypocritical ways. Pity...


Then you're blind. Or rather pretending.


But not pope Francis? :)


I'm afraid that it's not just that he's at a loss about what to do with this spiritual dilemma (and he seems to be, judging by his clumsy and banal comments that I've read). Based on his words and behaviour I'm afraid it's more than that. I hope that I'm wrong (not much of a hope though), but that's what it looks to me.

Atch, as for making my own judgements - yes, thank God I was thaught to have a mind of my own.

@Korvinus, wow, that's some bad omen, huh... :O

What rhetoric do you see?


To a point. He's probably the best of them, however he's not perfect, nor are any of them, and nor would any of them claim to be. They all to an extent disappoint. Perhaps that goes with the job.

Interesting that this thread had become more about clergy than Putler.

So back on topic, Kyrylo Budanov (an actual participant in this and more relevant than any cleric) has said that this war can only end with Putler's death, that it is too far gone now for him to be able to retreat.

This is hugely significant, since he's made his comments deliberately before the 9/5 Moscow celebrations. He outlines several issues and is absolutely unambiguous in this.

twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1521203047447339008

Do RuSSists believe those grandpas will boost the tragic morale of the RuSS army? hahaha


I suppose Ukrainians are already planting a few small attack drones around the Red Square. If only RuSSists wouldn`t plant a fake Putin instead......


And they will stay there coz corrupt RuSS corrupt servicemen had stripped them of vital parts. and sold to Ukraine as spares, for example. hahaha

Pavian, you're a very funny guy. With jokes and banter you've talked yourself into a 15-year sentence in the last few pages. ;) Nobody knows where DNR guys will stop, trying to liberate very western ukraine... ;)

The rhetoric of pro-Putin Russian nationalists as I've already explained in my post #9,787.


You didn't have a problem with criticising Germany in this thread many times already.


Wow, Velund, thank you for showing what a primitive sexist pig you are! lol I hope that mods won't move this comment of yours to Random and it will stay here showing everyone what Russian men are really like. They're showing their true colours in Ukraine too.

So - a 15 year sentence for making a joke - something our grandparents could relate to but still the MO in "modern" Russia. And you wonder why the Ukrainians are fighting back so hard (and winning)

I'm not primitive. I'm complicated enough to feel threshold, where feminist/satanist madness should be stopped by force.

Are you really saying that the pope is a 'pro-Putin russian nationalist' or using their rhetoric?


And still don't. They are enabling russia by trading with them, were supplying arms to russia even after the invasion of Ukraine, have had pro-russia demonstrations, have blocked other countries from supplying arms to Ukraine, have dragged their heels about helping Ukraine, have sent decades-old unusable equipment when pushed to send something and have a former leader currently on the board of Rosneft.


I've a feeling we'll see something that day. Perhaps not that, perhaps not there. The ruSSists are obviously getting more desperate as they lose and may try a stunt before then. Equally, Ukraine could have something planned.

Everybody knows - at NATO border ;)

Btw, do you know that Finland is planning to build a wall on the border with Russia? :D

o2.pl/informacje/duza-zmiana-urzednik-sie-wygadal-takie-plany-ma-finlandia-6764419544288032a


Yes, you are. And it looks like you're a psycho too.


"By force"? So you're also a woman-beater? Not surprising considering the mentality of Russian men and laws concerning domestic violence in Russia.

Btw, one of the leading psychos on Russian TV called Ukrainians "satanists". Does that mean you'd apply violence to Ukrainian women too? What would you do to their vaginas, if you were there in Ukraine together with other Russian beasts, you f*cked up psycho?

Their rhetoric. Which is bad enough and unbecoming of a pope, imho.

I hope you do not see any battle. I don't wish ill upon any Russians not in the government. I am sad that on the whole Russians are so.. relentless in pursuing destruction and so indifferent to pursuing progress. I wish Russia preferred to be happy and proserous rather than powerful and feared....

I don't see that. Perhaps he could have chosen his words more carefully, however essentially it is a distraction.


I do. I wish ill on their trained killers who are in Ukraine, on their paid propagandists and those who willingly enable them. I suspect you do too. Hopefully there will be trials after this however it is currently anyone's guess. That interview with Budanov I linked to is wort( a read. Especially between the lines

@Velund
With all due respect, and I appreciate your loyalty to country, I hope Russia is destroyed once and for all. Russian mentality and political tradition has no place in a modern day society. History does nothing but repeat itself in Russia and its always has a negative result. The problem is that Russians are so Fing blind or stupid, they can not recognize this. Sorry, but its Russia that needs elimination, not Ukraine.

I don't wish Velund to see any battle only because I'd be worried what he would do to Ukrainians (especially Ukrainian women).


He called NATO a dog barking at Russia. He used exactly the same rhetoric as pro-Putin Russian nationalists do. I can't put it any simpler than that.


Yes, he should choose his words more carefully. Especially that this "distraction" is used by Russian propaganda now.

they fall under the 'government' umbrella...

You know what's better alternative?
Overthrow Putin, withdraw from Ukraine. Clean, simple and you can even count on some goodwill from the world's community which will surely be interested in stabilizing the new government in Russia.

Sticking with Putin and Russian imperialism will be the downfall of Russia. Economic, demographic and very likely also political. At this point I believe that a 1917-style collapse is the optimistic scenario. Because we, as the collective NATO and EU won't bulge. And you will reap what you sow.

Its out of the hands of the Russian people. Russia, in a massive civilizational failure, has no way to transfer power except by death, violence or court intrigue.

Elections are phony and meaningless and subjects, without rights or recognition, are deprived of individual dignity... finding only vicarious dignity in the fearsomeness of the Tsar.

A depraved way to live... how can they expect people who have tasted freedom to embrace servitude?

Yes, it is a distraction and one that he will either address or choose to ignore. It isn't as if the bishop of Rome has the same degree of respect as his predecessor Pius XII did in WWII, a war in which the papacy's and the RCC's role is much discussed even today and discussed of course with conflicting opinions. Most of the world probably can't name the current pope or ever has been able to.

And of course there may well be things, spiritual or temporal, that he knows and that you and I don't.


We will have to hope that his forthcoming 'special' operation goes very badly indeed.

That at least would allow a successor to denounce him (with echoes of the Secret Speech) and try to find a way to save face to a limited degree. I may not bring compensation for the deaths and the damage, it may not see them rendering their citizens for war crimes trials, however it may see them get out of the areas they are occupying or trying to occupy.


They don't care.

I think you're exaggerating. Besides, he should be doing what's right no matter how many people in the world can name him. He should be showing the way to Catholics all over the world. And in my opinion he's failing to be the spiritual leader that is needed in such times. Just like Pius XII failed during World War II. And pope Francis doesn't even have the excuse of being endangered by facist Italy.

Maybe it doesn't matter to you, because you're not a Catholic, but it does matter to me. And as you can see Russian propaganda is using his words already.


Sure lol *rolls eyes*

Are you sure? Somehow I get that impression they have been sold for a scrap metal as some people needed money for vodka.


It hard to find a Talib if he puts his gun away. Unless you would want to wipe out entire population - which is not on the menu fpr NATO. Russian army is easy to spot and you even put on all those funny letters like V for vagina or Z for zombies, it would be like a game - wizz - puff - all gone. Like a Russian dream.


You talk too much and you wind yourslef up with your own words.

Only 15? hahaha

No, I am pretty sure that RuSSist intelligence has already put me on the execution list as a dangerous and incorrigible anti Russist element. That is why I will never surrender but will fight till the end. Every bullet - one dead RuSS. :):):)

7 billion people in the world, most of whom can't speak a European language or find Rome on a map. Or even read a map.


Stop rolling your eyes in case they fall out and roll on the floor like squidgy marbles. None of us know the secrets that he and his diplomats and prelates are privy to. I don't, however he does consider himself to be God's representative on Earth and presumably has exceptional spiritual insight. That and a large diplomatic corps.

However there are more important things. Some quite interesting data about who has given how much to Ukraine in terms of aid. Among European countries the U.K. is at the top, closely followed by Poland (who in terms of GDP have given the most). There's an interesting discussion elsewhere online about whether the amounts given should be offset by payments made to russia. That would put certain countries, notably France and germany well into the red.

No, I don't.

Another article in Polish media - "Pope Francis' shocking words. He talked about NATO barking at Russia's door":

msn.com/pl-pl/wiadomosci/swiat/szokuj%C4%85ce-s%C5%82owa-papie%C5%BCa-franciszka-m%C3%B3wi%C5%82-o-szczekaniu-nato-pod-drzwiami-rosji/ar-AAWRceZ?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=5eadf339bd794125bab0e0ea4949d3de

Jeder Schuss - ein RuSS! hahaha

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You don't have to be an a$$hole, jon357, just because I disagree with you. I don't think he has any "exceptional spiritual insight", to be honest. I think he's being influenced by his backround, probably also Italian and Vatican politics, he's probably also pretty ignorant, judging by what he said himself. And he and the Vatican simply fails to be a moral compass, imho, just like they lately failed in the case of cardinal Dziwisz. That's all I have to say on this subject.

I doubt it. You are all talk. I guess they might not know that.